XCOM EU Properties lists for eAP_?, eCP_?, and eWP_?

[JDDysart]

Yes, UEE does allow me to copy-paste to notepad - no problem there :smile:

Yes, I can copy from the nexusmods site to the window's clipboard.

No, my web browser won't allow me to paste (from the clipboard) to the nexusmods site :sad:

I believe this is because of default security settings - as I have had a lot of issues with said settings - in Windows 10 Home; I have a lot better luck with Windows 10 Business/Pro - unfortunately W-Pro is not where UEE and XCom are installed.

 

 

One question that occurred to me: where did you find the "pseudo-code" equivalence for the token in your example? It seems to be the only step that is missing

 

-Dubious-

If you are asking where I got the 59 or 0x35 token (and it's description) that came from the wiki page on "Hex values XCOM Modding" :smile:

 

As to the actual pseudo code that goes with the 0x35 token, that was obtained from trail-and-error attempts to mod XGBattleDesc.BuildSoldierContent (from the XComGame.upk file).

• NOTE: I did replace the original local variable ref with "TransferInfo" - but other than that those examples where straight from my 0x35 token modding of BuildSoldierContent :wink:
• The line breaks in the pseudo code on the complex examples are there to make the pseudo code more "read-able".
• FYI: I found a better understanding of the StructMember token to help with understanding what the wiki's "Hex values XCOM Modding" page meant by "<Expr>" in the "Hex data format" column.
  • For the 0x35 StructMember token: <Expr> is either the Next StructMember or a VarRef; with the first StructMember being the least significant and the VarRef being the most significant.
  • While I may not have made it clear enough: the VarRef could be any form of a VarRef (local, global, etc).
  • For the Record: the pseudo code "<XGBattleDesc.BuildSoldierContent>" would resolve to 4 bytes (file-size) of code; while a local VarRef would resolve to 8 bytes (file-size) of code - the last 4 bytes usually being hex "00 00 00 00". ... I'm still attempting to get my head wrapped around the mem-size concepts / differences (from file-size).

Edited October 12, 2016 by JDDysart

[dubiousintent]

Re "copy-and-paste" problem: Others have had the problem, and a quick search found several potential solutions. You don't mention which browser you are using. You can have more than one installed (i.e. Firefox and Chrome alongside WinExplorer). You might have better luck pasting with a different browser.

 

Thanks for the clarification. So, the pseudo-code for each token has to be puzzled out? Well, at least now I can tell people that. Did you puzzle it out from the UEE display of "view tokens" and "view disassembled tokens", or try the HexToPseudoCode decompiler on your mod's hex code "to obtain ready-to-modify code with all the jumps replaced with labels" (as mentioned in a note in "Hex editing UPK files", which I have now replicated in this "Lessons Learned" section)?

 

I'll add the clarification about "<Expr>" as well.

 

Line breaks to enhance understanding of both hex and pseudo-code are actually encouraged. As are the addition of comments. Neither cause problems with UPKUtils as long as the rules (in the ReadMe) are followed.

 

-Dubious-

Edited October 12, 2016 by dubiousintent

[JDDysart]

Okay - my Trail and Error process:

1. devise possible pseudo code in a txt file
2. use PatcherGUI to mod XComGame.upk
3. open XComGame.upk in UEE
4. navigate to the modded function (in this case XGBattleDesc.BuildSoldierContent)
5. View disassembled tokens to see what hex values I actually got in place of the 'possible pseudo code'.
6. ... rinse and repeat ... (use PatcherGUI's uninstall file to uninstall patch and back to #1, until I get what I am looking for. :wink:

The rightmost part of my pseudo code expr usually was a given as in: kTransfer.kChar.kInventory.iArmor - has four givens - "kTransfer", "kChar", "kInventory" and "iArmor"

 

A search in UEE on the given (say "iArmor") will usually give some qualifier (for iArmor I got "XGTacticalGameCoreNativeBase.TInventory.iArmor"), but not always the correct one for the current context.

 

So plug in <XGTacticalGameCoreNativeBase.TInventory.iArmor> where the pseude code needs to have iArmor, then patch and see what hex code you get? Usually I had to plug in two-to-four what-ever-s to get the patch to succeed - such as "35 <XGTacticalGameCoreNativeBase.TInventory.iArmor> <XGTacticalGameCoreNativeBase.TInventory> 00 00 00 <.kTransfer>"; a nice thing about the StructMember token - the second whatever is the qualifier(s) used for the first whatever (minus the specific - last piece of - whatever, in this case minus the ".iArmor").

 

If you get the same hex code as that reference produced elsewhere in the function - you have the proper qualifiers for that context (for in that function?); else you need to go back to UEE and do a manual search on iArmor - that is take a stroll through the upk file and see where else you might find what you are looking for. There is a certain logic (if you can wrap your mind around it) to where one might look: like Armor is more-or-less a subset of Inventory which is more-or-less a subset of Character(s); and class'engine' is likely to be found in the engine.upk (I found <engine.engine> under dependencies in the XComGame.upk file).

 

Structures are likely to be somewhere like XGTacticalGameCoreNativeBase.TInventory.Structures - but when used in pseudo code the .Structures and .Functions tend to get left out (as the pseudo code doesn't know what to do with them).

 

Of course LOCAL Variables are either passed in as an argument to a function or declared at the top of a function - and the pseudo code for the local variable reference kTransfer is "00 <.kTransfer>" :smile: simple enough?

Edited October 13, 2016 by JDDysart

[dubiousintent]

Thanks. I'll plug that into the "Lessons Learned" section on pseudo-code and see if there are any remaining gaps.

[Edit: and done. Please review.]

 

Appreciate you taking the time to expand on your experience. Should help others.

 

-Dubious-

Edited October 13, 2016 by dubiousintent

[JDDysart]

First, Dubious, I believe there is a misconception somewhere. The "T" in "TArmor", "TCharacter" and "TWeapon" I believe stands for "Tactical" as in the non-strategy part of XCOM:EU 2012; not for "Table" - in point of fact these are arrays rather than true tables.

 

That said, I have been re-thinking the EProperties approach to "EArmorProperty", "ECharacterProperty" and "EWeaponProperty" referencing; while that looked good on the "DefaultGameCore.ini settings - XCOM:EU 2012" page, it doesn't really match to the reality of what is in "XGTacticalGameCoreData.Enumerations" (see below).

 

 

XGTatcialGameCoreData.Enumerations (from XComGame.upk)

1. EAbilityAvailableCode
2. EAddAbilityCategory
3. ETargetUnitType
4. EAbility
5. EAbilityType
6. EAbilityTarget
7. EAbilityRange
8. eWeaponRangeCat
9. eShipFireRate
10. eGenericTriScale
11. EItemCard
12. EAbilityEffect
13. EAbilityProperty
14. ERandomSample
15. ESoldierClass
16. EWeaponClass
17. EMPTemplate
18. EAbilityDisplayProperty
19. EStatApplicationType
20. ECharacterStat'
21. EWeaponProperty
22. EArmorProperty
23. ECharacterProperty
24. EVolumeType
25. EVolumeShape
26. ESightLineEffect
27. ESightLineSpecialIcon
28. EVolumeEffect
29. EXComPawnUpdateBuildingVisibilityType
30. EItemCardAbility
31. EUnitPawn_OpenCloseState

The above does seem to justify an actual "XGTacticalGameCoreData.Enumerations" page - to act as 'parent' for the 31 potential Enumerations pages (or sub-pages?) that may evolve out of the above; still not so sure about a "XGTacticalGameCoreData" page - for "Constants" (1), Enumerations (31) and Structures (2); wait, there is a "Category" page that works for that, and while IMO it isn't the best solution it can be stretched to cover the duties of a "Category XGTacticalGameCoreData.Enumerations" page. Yes, I have noticed that 7 of these potential 31 Enumerations pages already exist!

 

Oh, while I am thinking about it:

 

On the "DefaultGameCore.ini settings - XCOM:EU 2012" page, under the "Properties" section:

1. eAP_LightWeaponLimited,
2. eCP_NoCover,
3. eCP_LargeUnit,
4. eCP_DoubleOverwatch,
5. eWP_Overheats,
6. eWP_Psionic,
7. eWP_Encomber.

- the (above) properties are not mentioned - mostly because they weren't in the unmodded DGC.ini file; otherwise these enumerations would be complete - although, maybe / probably, in the wrong sequence for proper (enumeration purposes, such as) indexing?

 

Notes:

• Properties with an eAP prefix are for on Armors (i.e. "AP" in "eAP" is "Armor Property").
• Properties with a eCP prefix are for on Characters (i.e. "CP" in "eCP" is "Character Property").
• Properties with a eWP prefix are for on Weapons (i.e. "WP" in "eWP" is "Weapon Property").

For what it may matter: you (the reader) have my permission to rephrase my notes (above) should you copy them to somewhere else.

And then there is a question (or so) on XGItemLibrary.Default Values (in XComGame.upk) - a very lengthy array of of 'Items' that I've found on the forums (but haven't yet located on the wiki), along with a note to the effect that "the items named in this array are the only items available in the Tactical (i.e. on a mission) part of XCOM:EU 2012"? Is this array of "m_arrayItems(193)=" already somewhere on the XCom wiki? and if not, where would be a good place to add it to the wiki?

 

Edit:

 

Request for Wiki advice / help:

• On the XCOM wiki is it possible to have a < div > with a scroll bar? rather than using a word wrap option for lines longer than the display screen?
• On the XCOM wiki is there a 'spoiler' tag available? and if so, what does one need to know to use it?

I know I have seen both of these (features?) used in these forums, but I can't remember having seen either used on the XCOM wiki.

Edited October 16, 2016 by JDDysart

[dubiousintent]

Re: The "T" in "TArmor", "TCharacter" and "TWeapon". I don't recall where the "T" is interpreted as "Table" or "Tactical". You already get the context in peudo-code from the parent "XGTacticalGameCoreData.Enumerations". If there is an equivalent "SArmor" to the "TArmor", etc. properties, then the distinction is useful to point out.

As it is, I'm not sure the distinction between a "table" and an "array" is actually useful to understanding under the circumstances. In either instance you are using a number value as an index to locate the desired result. In code, "tables" generally use string processing techniques. "Arrays" use matrix math. But the actual code mechanics are buried in the functions. If you feel strongly about it, perhaps a little more clarification as to why it makes a difference conceptually?

Re: "XGTacticalGameCoreData.Enumerations". I am not opposed to the idea of a separate page, especially if it exists in the game as a separate UPK file. We can reference it in the "Enum Expansion" article, and place it under the "Game Files" category. Where the tables are reasonably short we can include them in the "enumeration" sub-topic, and split lengthier ones out to their own page. (If we don't reference a page from another page, it becomes an "orphan" and can get lost or pruned. So I try to ensure there is always at least one reference link, and document them at the bottom of the articles in question.)

But, what about using your list of 31 enumerations as the basis of the "XGTacticalGameCoreData" page you were looking for, with the "Enumerations", "Constants", and "Structures" as sub-topics? Then you have a place to discuss all general aspects of "XGTacticalGameCoreData" and can link to articles that cover specific aspects in more depth, like the other "XGTacticalGameCoreData.EAbility<suffix>" pages that already exist?

In principle, we have tried to keep all the information related to a given UPK file in one place matching that file name, with lengthy sub-topics split off into "supplemental" pages (like "EAbilities" and "EProperties") to keep the main article more manageable for someone looking for just one aspect and make it logical for people to connect the file with the article. So the "DefaultGameCore.ini settings" article would contain a link to the "XGTacticalGameCoreData" for more detail.

"Categories" are more like "filters". An article can be under several categories (though "XCOM" should always be one as the "umbrella" for all articles), so we avoid placing substantive articles on the category pages. Those "pages" are for descriptions of the category and things applicable to the category as a whole.

Re: On the "DefaultGameCore.ini settings - XCOM:EU 2012" page. You propose to add those properties? I'm open to adding them, but would really prefer to have them in the correct enumeration order as someone is certainly going to try to just add them to the DGC.INI. (The information on that page is some of the earliest discoveries and ti hasn't been updated in years.)

Re: XGItemLibrary.Default Values. I am not aware of such a page, and I must have missed when it was posted. (Link, please?) If it's just a list (array), we usually content ourselves with a pointer to it's location in a related article. Lists are usually "self-explanatory". There are 50,732 individual files packed into the "XComGame.UPK" file, primarily related to the tactical game. Fortunately these are grouped into 3,107 'packages' or classes, which is a much more manageable number. Still, it's simply not practical to create articles for them all. (It's hard enough persuading people to document their discoveries of unobvious things.) We get articles when someone like yourself is vested enough to do the digging and write-up.

If you feel it's warranted, then I would suggest it be treated to it's own page (perhaps "XGItemLibrary.Default") with a reference link in the "Enum Expansion" article. Assuming it is under the "XGItem.Class", we might also put a link in a comment for that entry in the "XComGame.UPK.Catalog" file. And anywhere else you think seems logical, like "DefaultGameCore.ini settings - XCOM:EU 2012". That's one of my criteria: if it should be referenced from other articles, then it warrants it's own page.

Re: Wiki code requests. The forum software and the wiki engine are separate beasts. The wiki uses MediaWiki as it's engine. Both "horizontal scrolling" and "spoilers" are extensions to the basic engine. I'll run some tests to see if they are implemented.

When you are editing a wiki page, at the bottom is an "Edit Help" link. That will open a new page with MediaWiki markup template examples of commonly used features, as well as links to the most commonly referenced "MidiaWiki.org" help pages. From those links you will be able to navigate to any of the help pages on "MediaWiki.org".

I haven't so far found a need for "spoilers" on the wiki. A technical article is not someplace I expect to see something "hidden" from view as if it were unimportant. What would you want to put in "spoiler tags"?

A "code box" is to preserve the formatting of the line, especially indentations, that the normal wiki "automatic" markup processing will remove. (How well do you remember the first 80 characters of a line of code when looking at the 256th?) If the code line is too long, first priority on the part of the author should be to see if it can be broken up to be more readable. A horizontal scroll box might make the entire line visible, but not necessarily "readable". A comment (just before the code box, in a "Note Box" to offset it) that a line ending in " _" (or a similar common convention, i.e. " &") signals a continuation of the current line on the next one for readability ought to be sufficient. Then limit yourself to something standard like 75-80 characters (including continuation character) per line of code. Comments should always be broken up, or placed outside of the 'code box'. There is a fair bit of information on 'code boxes' in the wiki "Editing Help" page as a result of this.

If an extension is not implemented, we can request it of "Dark One" (site owner). But we would need to make a case why only adding the extension will do. He's been quite responsive in the past, but wiki features are relatively low on the priority queue compared to site function if he agrees with the request, so no telling how long it would take to implement.

 

-Dubious-

Edited October 17, 2016 by dubiousintent

[JDDysart]

Re: "Table" vs "Tactical" - somewhere in the write-ups you have been adding to the wiki you used "Table" where it at first confused me (as I was expecting "Tactical"); until I figured out what I believe that you had done. I went back and re-wrote that article to remove the "Table"; and to better clarify just what I meant. Currently: Not A Problem :wink:

Re: "Table" vs "Array" - is a highly technical distinction that usually doesn't matter; probably doesn't matter in this case :smile:

Re: "TacticalGameCoreData.Enumerations" - this particular "Enumerations" (there are others) is a 'supplemental' to "TacticalGameCareData"; but then all of the EAbility<whatever> pages seem to be 'supplemental' to THIS "Enumerations" (see my list of 31 Enumerated whatever-s - above). FYI: I believe I've done a good job of mentioning when/where something comes from other than the "XComGame.upk" file (or were you referring to files packed into "XcomGame.upk"?). Not sure just exactly where that leaves us? things? etc?

Re: "DefaultGameCore.ini settings - XCOM:EU 2012" page - my current thought is to attempt to put the various EProperties into templates (somewhere else) and then pull them back onto the [[DefaultGameCore.ini settings - XCOM:EU 2012]] page?

Re: Spoilers - I did find a XCOM wiki page showing the use of "[ spoiler ]" whatever "[ /spoiler ]" tags ... but this didn't work for me! Just a thought for shorting long (vertically) pages to make them more "readable"? (i.e. I was thinking of collapsible spoilers, as opposed to mouse-over spoilers - I have to agree: no real need for mouse-over spoilers on a wiki; but I have had experience with collapsible structures on a wiki.)

So, currently I'm attempting to determine if the template concept is properly implemented on this "MediaWiki"

 

EDIT:

 

Forum Posting update - by switching to the "Basic" editor (instead of the RTE) - I can paste to the forum; but all the fancy "Rich Text" buttons are disabled :sad: And in Rich Text mode, with said buttons enabled, I can neither paste to this forum nor use any RTE button that should put something into the editor window!) Anyone have any idea of what I might need to turn on in Internet Options or Browser Properties?

 

Okay - placing "nexusmods.com" on the compatibility view list seems to have fixed the paste-ing and Rich Text button usage issues! :smile:

 

Now, for a newbie (or way-too-old?) question - how does one get a link to show - say "XComGame.upk" instead of http://wiki.nexusmods.com/index.php/XComGame.upk ?

 

Edit 2:

 

Okay, template concept is "half working": can make Template:<some-name> pages (very similar to Category:<some-name> pages, and the include feature {{ some-name }} (minus spaces) works; but the link feature, as described on the help pages is currently showing "page does not exist".

 

Please see:

* Category:XCOM Templates wikipage;

* & from there, XGTacticalGameCoreData.EArmorProperty - XCOM:EU 2012 wikipage.

* & there too, XGTacticalGameCoreData.ECharacterProperty - XCOM:EU 2012 wikipage.

* & also there, XGTacticalGameCoreData.EWeaponProperty - XCOM:EU 2012 wikipage.

* and then the XGTacticalGameCoreData.EProperties - XCOM:EU 2012 wikipage.

Next: Attempt to template EProperties for inclusion on the "DefaultGameCore.ini settings - XCOM:EU 2012" page.

Edited October 17, 2016 by JDDysart

[dubiousintent]

Re: "Table" vs "Tactical" - And that's exactly why I ask authors to review what I entered. I am well familiar with the "what I meant instead of what I said" problem, so I try to fill in some of those unspoken assumptions and sometimes get it wrong because I'm not looking at the actual source code or original context. Good catch.

Re: "Table" vs "Array" - Agreed.

Re: "TacticalGameCoreData.Enumerations" - I believe we are in general agreement. Which is why I said it's appropriate to NOW build a "TacticalGameCareData" article, to act as the umbrella for not only the "Enumerations" found in that general heading, but any others worth mentioning such as "EAbility" articles.

As to "were you referring to files packed into "XComGame.UPK"? You have done a good job of identifying the parent source file(s). I was referring to the 50K individual files packed into "XComGame.UPK", which are listed in the "XComGame.UPK.Catalog" article, given that particular UPK contains so many. Just a matter of enabling people to zero in on the relevant information more quickly. A reference to "XComGame.UPK > XGItem.Class > XGItemLibrary.Default" is clearer than simply "XGItemLibrary.Default" in "XComGame.UPK" if you haven't become familiar enough with that file structure to infer the intermedial "class" file, no? Unless I am misunderstanding your question?

Re: "DefaultGameCore.ini settings - XCOM:EU 2012" page - We can do templates. We have four template files under "T" in the XCOM category. Notably we have done that with the "Recent Discoveries" and the "Patches" information because it is needed in more than one article and linking to it instead in those places reduces both the impact and importance, as well as ensuring the same information is presented everywhere needed.

My only (2 part) question would be: are the EProperies worth expanding the DGC.INI article in length that much instead of just providing a link, given that it's been four years since anyone found it important enough to look further into, and is that information needing to be replicated in full in more than that page? The eProperties aren't really part of the DGC.INI file itself, are they? They are values that can be used, but they aren't otherwise defined there, so a reference seems more appropriate. Perhaps some "summary" information would be appropriate for a template used in both article instead? But having presented my arguments, I will defer to your opinion (or any lurkers who care to weigh-in) on the matter. My only interest is in effectively presenting the information while maintaining consistency of presentation to enhance retrieval where possible.

I see you created a Templates category. Not a problem, but I am going to edit the "category page description" to narrow it's focus. Haven't looked at your templates as yet, in order to get this post up. I have added the new category to the existing templates, so they are now all under that filter.

 

Re: Spoilers - The forum uses "[ ]" for tags, the wiki uses "< >".

Re: Editor. Glad you figured out the RTE issue. (It was a new one for me. Which browser, just for my reference? Firefox doesn't have a "compatibility view list" that I am aware of.) As for the question about links: in the wiki an external link consists of the URL followed by a space and the plaintext you want displayed for the link, surrounded by "[ ]". See the "Help:Formatting" link in the "Edit Help" page.

An internal wiki page link (i.e. any page in the XCOM wiki) consistes of the "[[#<page name>|<plaintext>]]", where "<pagename> is the wiki page name (with "_" replacing any spaces in the name) without the URL domain prefix, with "<plaintext>" being whatever you want displayed as the page description, and the plaintext can include spaces (i.e. "[[#XComGame.upk|XComGame.upk file"). If you leave off the "|<plaintext>" it will display the "#<page name>", including the "#", as in "#XComGame.upk" instead of "XComGame.upk file". Take a look at the "References" section of any wiki article and you will find examples of both.

 

-Dubious-

Edited October 17, 2016 by dubiousintent

[JDDysart]

Re: Class & what is it? I'm not sure which of us is more confused on what a "Class" is? Using UE-Explorer to look at XComGame.upk, I've been inferring that Class is the top level of <whatever> that shows up on UEE's object tab; as I mentioned - somewhere - in passing, UPKTool's pseudo code uses "Class" in place of the External Filename (such as XComGame.upk) when referring to objects in the current upk File, while using such an External Filename when referring to objects in another upk file. So the reference would actually be: "XComGame. (upk) XGItem (or Class.XGItem)"; without a dot (.) in there "Class.XGItem" and "Class.XGItemLibrary" are actually being looked at as two totally separate 'Classes' (i.e. 'Containers'). Then, apparently I got a bit sloppy in my writing, as "Default Values" is actually one reference (not two of "Default" then "Value").

 

I feel that "Default Values" needs further explanation at this time, as UE Explorer doesn't always show them to you. The trick is to select their (Default Value's) parent container (in the left pane) before expanding said parent container; when selected - if you scroll the right pane down far enough you will eventually see any Default Values (or structure for "default properties"?), and then when you expand said 'selected parent container' any "Default Values" containers should be at the bottom of said expansion (but again UE Explorer isn't always consistent with showing said "Default Values" - and you may need to go with what you saw in the right pane). Said inconsistencies would lead me to suggest the possibility of some File-Size / Memory-Size values that aren't what they should be.

 

I will defer to your judgement on just what files to add into the Category "XCom Templates". I think I should mention that only two (of the four) you mentioned are actually "Template:" pages? for whatever significance that may hold. My current understanding (please educate me if I have this wrong?) is that "Template:" pages should only show up (as links) on a Templates Category? Other references to them should be the "include" syntax to pull in whatever 'template' info they contain; Please pay attention to exactly what is in the three template pages I created (EArmorProperty, ECharacterProperty and EWeaponProperty - in short form), AND just what got pulled into the existing "EProperties" (again, in short form) page - with my 'template include syntax'.

 

 

Re: Notice Box on the "Category:XCom Templates page - looks good; took a couple of read through-s (for me) to properly understand just what is being said. Not certain it is really desirable to have every page that has an include for a "Template:" page listed on this category page? And for the record, they currently aren't being added automatically (at least not without the "Category:XCom Templates" at the bottom of said pages).

 

My thought is to cascade that "included template effect" into replacing a substantial portion of the "Properties" section of the "DefaultGameCore.ini settings - XCOM:EU 2012" page? So it would not really be expanding the DGC.ini page, as much as setting things up so that parts of that page can be shared - in line - with other pages. Note: I believe I made good use of the selective tags used to control just what in a template gets pulled in by the include syntax. The way I am thinking of it: the DGC.ini page could be a collection of "Templates:"?

 

I am somewhat concerned about whether or not a "Template:" page should contain a "Version" section? I should also ask your opinion on how much of a need there is for a non-Template: template page (for what should be on a "Template:" page)? If I haven't totally confused you with my "Template:" vs non-Template: "template" jargon? Not sure if it is a "good" idea - but the non-Template: "templates" could be configured to allow one to use include syntax to pull them onto a new page (leaving the "info just for on the template page itself" out) - instead of copy/paste-ing everything?

 

Re: Browser, FYI - fool that I am, it is Microsoft's IE 11; worse it is running on Microsoft's Windows 10 Home edition! Seems that my games are on the Home edition computer (and not on the Pro edition computer)? Wonder just which fool made that unwise decision?

 

While I may not be getting the "spoiler" tags to work (at all - neither in the forums nor on the wiki), most everything else seems to be working (more-or-less) as expected on the wiki! My question about URL/html links was for how to do them on the Forum? As my efforts to date have proven unsuccessful - I may need someone to (slowly) walk me through how to put such "re-named" links into a forum post (especially as the add link control doesn't offer me a "rename" option)?

 

(Attempting to keep discussion on my mod, and documenting it on the wiki, in another forum thread; restricting discussion here, more-or-less, to the original properties theme.)

Edited October 18, 2016 by JDDysart

[dubiousintent]

Re: "Class & what is it?" Yeah, that term in particular seems to pretty loosely used. It's first used in the underlying Unreal Game Engine documentation. I never got into even "C" coding, but it appears to my limited understanding to be used in the sense that "C" or "C++" defines the term. But then Bethesda seems to have extended it to some filenames packed into UPK files. The wiki article "How_to_build_class.object_references" appears to restrict itself to "code/pseudo-code" references. I don't think carrying that "dot" format into "external filename" references outside of the coding context is a good idea, as it continues the blurring of the meaning where technical articles are all about precision. Better would be to put an explanation of the distinction between the forms of representation into the articles "overview" or "Details", where it is not obvious in context.

As far as "getting sloppy" when writing references, we all do it at least occasionally. Which is why I tend to use a lot of quotation marks, or formatting like italics and bold, as a habit to reduce the possibility of ambiguity. Just a matter of practice. The further explanation of "Default Values" is fine. As you appear comfortable with editing HTML, just put it where you feel appropriate.

Re: "Category:Template". Another case of "loose" terminology, or more correctly: two definitions. You are using "template" in the sense of "an include file". The MediaWiki documents I first read on it and the Nexus site used it in the sense of a "generic model" or "pattern", what some might call "boilerplate". I don't think the distinction is worth two Categories, so at least for the moment I am going with adding that to the description of the category page and including both types. I prefer the use of "include file" (or "include template") for clarity referring to that type of "template".

As it took a couple of readings to get a clear understanding of that catergory description, please suggest any improvements to clarify, or describe what was initially confusing. I would much prefer the meaning was clear the first time people read it.

Wiki pages will appear under the "Category:Templates" page when 1) the page includes a "Category:Templates" inside of the "[[categoryname]]" brackets syntax at the bottom of the page, aka "explicit placement"; and 2) when the page uses the "{{wiki_page_name}}" curly braces syntax of an "include file" template, aka "implicit placement". Instance 2) is an inference of what appears to be an "automated" process of the wiki engine (extension?) as there is no explicit category added. (At least not on those articles that do not have "Template" as a prefix to their name.) Everything outside of the description block of the page is automatically a link on a category page (again: automated part of the process).

Having had the difficulty previously, I have taken to listing the documents which utilize an "include file" in that template page to facilitate tracking where it is used. (See "Template:Patches" at the bottom for an example.) This is primarily so review that changes in phraseology are consistent in each of the affected article contexts, as well as to determine potential impacts if removed is more easily accomplished. As a given article may utilize more than one "include file", and you have to be in edit mode on a page to determine which content is from an "include file" the mere presence of an article in the "Category:Templates" page is insufficient. That explicit documentation (under "References" in your cases I should think) would be the only suggestion I would make regarding your three "include files". I find them appropriate and beneficial. (And I hadn't seen the use of "onlyinclude" previously, so I learned something new. Bonus! I'm a 'self-taught' HTML editor, so there are tons of things I don't know about it. I'll have to go back over mine with that in mind.)

Your proposal to "cascade included templates" is a good one. My suggestion would be that it is only worth creating an "include template" when it makes sense for the information to appear in more than one article.

As for "version" section (presumeably outside of the "onlyinclude" tags): the wiki automatically tracks the change history for each page. Which can be used to reverse a change. (Wiki navigation bar on the left side: by date under "Recent changes", and on various "Recent changes and logs" pages under "Toolbox | Special pages".) As the same include file is automatically pulled in everywhere it is used, that really isn't a concern as far as "synching" between articles. So, I'm not seeing the need.

Re: "spoiler tags". Really, in the forum? Must be WinExplorer11 then. I would install an alternate browser, but not under the default "C:\Program Files" tree. I create an "Apps" folder and install my "third-party" tools there, to completely avoid the "security" applied to the "Program Files" tree.

In the wiki it appears "spoiler" tags are customCSS. I haven't been able to test as yet. Unfortunately I can't find any reference the the wiki having a "sandbox", so I have to experiment within an existing article and then cancel instead of saving, which makes me nervous.

Re: External Links in the forum. Type your text. Then highlight/select what you want to be the plaintext description for the link, i.e. "wiki article name". Click on the "Link" icon on the "Reply" window lower edit bar (chain link with a green-and-white box in the lower right corner, just to the right of the "Insert/Remove Numbered List" icon) which will pop-up a box to enter the URL for the destination; and click "OK". The plaintext, i.e. "wiki article name", will appear in colored font (dark blue in my Firefox) and is now a hyper-text link. No "rename" option, but you can edit the plaintext after adding the URL, or change the URL by selecting the highlighted text again and clicking on the link icon. Or are you asking about something different?

As for keeping the discussion on your mod, it's your thread. But focus so far has been all related. Only recently have we branched into wiki coding, but you can take the discussion wherever you want. If you would prefer to move things not related to the mod itself elsewhere, a thread on things like wiki coding could go under "Technical Support".

 

-Dubious-

Edited October 19, 2016 by dubiousintent