1810 replies to this topic

[ousnius]

In response to post #54364808. #54367293, #54388113 are all replies on the same post.

Spoiler

2H34M wrote: Hi, big thx for this realy helpful tool.

Is it possible to add a new option for auto renaming the "0 NiNode" to "Scene Root" or maybe add own name via textfield?

ousnius wrote: The question is why?

2H34M wrote: Ich antworte mal in deutsch. Ist einfacher dann zu erklären. (du kannst doch deutsch, wenn ich dein Profil so anschaue oder?)
Aktuell arbeite ich an einem Armor Replacer für meinen Custom Body.
Dabei konvertiere ich aber nicht einfach nur den Body sondern versuche neue Outfits zu entwerfen mit den vorliegenden Shapes.
Ich mixe also unterschiedliche Meshes und forme sie zu etwas Neuem.
Problem ist dabei immer das viele Mods, vorallem ältere, ihre 0 NiNode nicht Scene Root nennen.
Beim Copy & Paste in Nifskope muss ich das halt immer erst umbenennen damit kein Error aufkommt.
Ist dann bei gefühlt 100 Meshes irgendwann einfach nur nervig.
Daher die Frage. Es würde einfach ein paar Arbeitsschritte einfacher machen.

Gerade für Outfits kannst du hier auch ganz einfach Outfit Studio verwenden. Dann musst du nicht mal irgendwas von X nach Y kopieren, sondern einfach alle NIFs in das Programm ziehen.

For outfits you can also just use Outfit Studio to create mashups by dropping all files into the program, instead of copying things from X to Y in NifSkope.

[2H34M]

In response to post #54364808. #54367293, #54388113, #54389883 are all replies on the same post.

Spoiler

2H34M wrote: Hi, big thx for this realy helpful tool.

Is it possible to add a new option for auto renaming the "0 NiNode" to "Scene Root" or maybe add own name via textfield?

ousnius wrote: The question is why?

2H34M wrote: Ich antworte mal in deutsch. Ist einfacher dann zu erklären. (du kannst doch deutsch, wenn ich dein Profil so anschaue oder?)
Aktuell arbeite ich an einem Armor Replacer für meinen Custom Body.
Dabei konvertiere ich aber nicht einfach nur den Body sondern versuche neue Outfits zu entwerfen mit den vorliegenden Shapes.
Ich mixe also unterschiedliche Meshes und forme sie zu etwas Neuem.
Problem ist dabei immer das viele Mods, vorallem ältere, ihre 0 NiNode nicht Scene Root nennen.
Beim Copy & Paste in Nifskope muss ich das halt immer erst umbenennen damit kein Error aufkommt.
Ist dann bei gefühlt 100 Meshes irgendwann einfach nur nervig.
Daher die Frage. Es würde einfach ein paar Arbeitsschritte einfacher machen.

ousnius wrote: Gerade für Outfits kannst du hier auch ganz einfach Outfit Studio verwenden. Dann musst du nicht mal irgendwas von X nach Y kopieren, sondern einfach alle NIFs in das Programm ziehen.

For outfits you can also just use Outfit Studio to create mashups by dropping all files into the program, instead of copying things from X to Y in NifSkope.

Did not know this is possible. Makes the process easier of course. thx

Edited by 2H34M, 15 October 2017 - 01:29 PM.

Trying to understand, from a textures only archive from Oldrim, what if anything would need to be checked for incompatibility?

I understand this tool is primarily to optimize the meshes, but there is also an option to smooth normals. When should that option be used on an Oldrim mod?

Let's say for example: aMidianBorn Caves and Mines

Sorry so many questions, but I'm just trying to understand the possible file type incompatibilities for Oldrim mods.

Plugins, scripts, meshes, and...normals?

Thank you for creating this incredibly useful tool

[R246]

Let me preface this by saying SSE NIF Optimizer is not the cause of this issue.

A few images of the issue: https://imgur.com/a/tqXJQ

 

Oldrim female eye meshes are all broken for me. Even the vanilla Oldrim eyesfemale.nif, freshly extracted from BSA exhibits the issue in NifSkope and Skyrim SE. The issue is part of the eye is gone. It's not black, it's physically gone and I can see through the missing part. Running the mesh through the Optimizer doesn't fix or worsen the issue. Oldrim male eye meshes aren't affected.

 

The mesh works fine in Oldrim obviously, and previous version of NifSkope. But it's always broken in SE. I can only imagine every single port of an Oldrim female follower has this issue. Recreating the heads with CK64 isn't feasible, so a fix, or a way to swap the eye mesh with a valid SE one is needed, if that's even possible...

 

Any thoughts?

[Vyxenne]

In response to post #54447578. #54450408, #54450613, #54452678, #54453563 are all replies on the same post.

Spoiler

ShmooZ wrote: Trying to understand, from a textures only archive from Oldrim, what if anything would need to be checked for incompatibility?

I understand this tool is primarily to optimize the meshes, but there is also an option to smooth normals. When should that option be used on an Oldrim mod?

Let's say for example: aMidianBorn Caves and Mines

Sorry so many questions, but I'm just trying to understand the possible file type incompatibilities for Oldrim mods.

Plugins, scripts, meshes, and...normals?

Thank you for creating this incredibly useful tool

ShmooZ wrote: Thank you for getting me up to speed.

I thought that maybe the smooth normals option, had something to do with meshes tied to normal maps. Could be wrong though.

Feather propeller - LOL

Vyxenne wrote: You've never lived until your flight instructor cuts the critical engine on you while you are banked into it at 500 feet on a full-power night departure. Many seat cushions have gone mysteriously missing on such flights.

ousnius wrote: The normals that the NIF Optimizer is referring to are in the NIF file. They aren't texture files or normal maps, those are both different things.

Mesh normals are those the optimizer can smooth to potentially fix (or break) the way that things are lit. This is on a vertex basis (for every point in the mesh).

Normal map textures add fine detail to how a mesh is lit by the game. This is on a pixel basis, as opposed to using the mesh like mesh normals do.

TL;DR: The optimizer doesn't do anything to any textures, the normals it's referring to are in the geometry.

https://en.wikipedia...i/Vertex_normal
https://en.wikipedia.../Normal_mapping

ShmooZ wrote: Well that explains that I guess!

I'm somewhat new to meshes, but have done a little work in Nifskope. When it says removed vertex colors in the log, I was getting worried I did something wrong! Thank you for the knowledge

from a textures only archive from Oldrim, what if anything would need to be checked for incompatibility?

Oldrim textures work pretty well right out of the box in SSE- no conversion required.

I'm just trying to understand the possible file type incompatibilities for Oldrim mods. Plugins, scripts, meshes, and...normals?

Some Oldrim meshes work in SSE without any conversion. That said, you should still Optimize them using NifOpt because there are Block and Node naming conventions in SSE that don't exist in Oldrim as well as other differences that only Ousnius can understand. The only reason NOT to optimze an Oldrim mesh for SSE is when it doesn't work after optimization. I have several mods whose meshes had to be reverted to Oldrim spec because optimizing them broke them, whether I optimized with "Smooth Normals" checked or not. And no, they're not headparts- they're minidress outfits. I couldn't even fix them in Outfit Studio, but I've been using them unconverted in my SSE for 11 months and had no problems so far.

Many, if not most, non-SKSE-dependent Oldrim plugins (esp/esm files) work in SSE without any conversion. That said, you should still resave them in CK64 to avoid potential hidden issues that don't surface until months later- by which time you have no idea what's causing them. Skyrim is like that.

Oldrim animations need to be converted for SSE using the Bethesda-provided tool. Please Google for details.

Oldrim BSAs need to be extracted for SSE and optionally repacked to a new SSE-spec BSA.

Non-SKSE-dependent Oldrim scripts mostly work fine in SSE and as far as I know there is no quick and easy way to "convert" them- they have to be rewritten if for some reason they don't work in SSE.

And finally, I have always been baffled by the "Smooth Normals" option in NifOpt. Like you, my paradigm is that "normals" are a type of texture that determines glossiness and shine. Why a mesh optimizer would be offering to smooth texture files it can't even find (because there are so many different ways of pointing to them other than specifying them in a mesh) has eluded me since the first time I saw it. Based on Ousnius's instructions when I asked about my meshes that exploded when I optimized them, the "Smooth Normals" option is just there to try in case NifOpt blows up your meshes. To me, it's like a "feather propeller" control on a farm tractor- farm tractors ain't got no propellers.

Edited by Vyxenne, 16 October 2017 - 11:18 PM.

In response to post #54447578. #54450248 is also a reply to the same post.

Spoiler

ShmooZ wrote: Trying to understand, from a textures only archive from Oldrim, what if anything would need to be checked for incompatibility?

I understand this tool is primarily to optimize the meshes, but there is also an option to smooth normals. When should that option be used on an Oldrim mod?

Let's say for example: aMidianBorn Caves and Mines

Sorry so many questions, but I'm just trying to understand the possible file type incompatibilities for Oldrim mods.

Plugins, scripts, meshes, and...normals?

Thank you for creating this incredibly useful tool

Vyxenne wrote:

from a textures only archive from Oldrim, what if anything would need to be checked for incompatibility?

Oldrim textures work pretty well right out of the box in SSE- no conversion required.

I'm just trying to understand the possible file type incompatibilities for Oldrim mods. Plugins, scripts, meshes, and...normals?

Some Oldrim meshes work in SSE without any conversion. That said, you should still Optimize them using NifOpt because there are Block and Node naming conventions in SSE that don't exist in Oldrim as well as other differences that only Ousnius can understand. The only reason NOT to optimze an Oldrim mesh for SSE is when it doesn't work after optimization. I have several mods whose meshes had to be reverted to Oldrim spec because optimizing them broke them, whether I optimized with "Smooth Normals" checked or not. And no, they're not headparts- they're minidress outfits. I couldn't even fix them in Outfit Studio, but I've been using them unconverted in my SSE for 11 months and had no problems so far.

Many, if not most, non-SKSE-dependent Oldrim plugins (esp/esm files) work in SSE without any conversion. That said, you should still resave them in CK64 to avoid potential hidden issues that don't surface until months later- by which time when you have no idea what's causing them. Skyrim is like that.

Oldrim animations need to be converted for SSE using the Bethesda-provided tool. Please Google for details.

Oldrim BSAs need to be extracted for SSE and optionally repacked to a new SSE-spec BSA.

Non-SKSE-dependent Oldrim scripts mostly work fine in SSE and as far as I know there is no quick and easy way to "convert" them- they have to be rewritten if for some reason they don't work in SSE.

And finally, I have always been baffled by the "Smooth Normals" option in NifOpt. Like you, my paradigm is that "normals" are a type of texture that determines glossiness and shine. Why a mesh optimizer would be offering to smooth texture files it can't even find (because there are so many different ways of pointing to them other than specifying them in a mesh) has eluded me since the first time I saw it. Based on Ousnius's instructions when I asked about my meshes that exploded when I optimized them, the "Smooth Normals" option is just there to try in case NifOpt blows up your meshes. To me, it's like a "feather propeller" control on a farm tractor- farm tractors ain't got no propellers.

Thank you for getting me up to speed.

I thought that maybe the smooth normals option, had something to do with meshes tied to normal maps. Could be wrong though.

Feather propeller - LOL

[Vyxenne]

In response to post #54447578. #54450248, #54450408, #54452678, #54453563 are all replies on the same post.

Spoiler

ShmooZ wrote: Trying to understand, from a textures only archive from Oldrim, what if anything would need to be checked for incompatibility?

I understand this tool is primarily to optimize the meshes, but there is also an option to smooth normals. When should that option be used on an Oldrim mod?

Let's say for example: aMidianBorn Caves and Mines

Sorry so many questions, but I'm just trying to understand the possible file type incompatibilities for Oldrim mods.

Plugins, scripts, meshes, and...normals?

Thank you for creating this incredibly useful tool

Vyxenne wrote:

from a textures only archive from Oldrim, what if anything would need to be checked for incompatibility?

Oldrim textures work pretty well right out of the box in SSE- no conversion required.

I'm just trying to understand the possible file type incompatibilities for Oldrim mods. Plugins, scripts, meshes, and...normals?

Some Oldrim meshes work in SSE without any conversion. That said, you should still Optimize them using NifOpt because there are Block and Node naming conventions in SSE that don't exist in Oldrim as well as other differences that only Ousnius can understand. The only reason NOT to optimze an Oldrim mesh for SSE is when it doesn't work after optimization. I have several mods whose meshes had to be reverted to Oldrim spec because optimizing them broke them, whether I optimized with "Smooth Normals" checked or not. And no, they're not headparts- they're minidress outfits. I couldn't even fix them in Outfit Studio, but I've been using them unconverted in my SSE for 11 months and had no problems so far.

Many, if not most, non-SKSE-dependent Oldrim plugins (esp/esm files) work in SSE without any conversion. That said, you should still resave them in CK64 to avoid potential hidden issues that don't surface until months later- by which time you have no idea what's causing them. Skyrim is like that.

Oldrim animations need to be converted for SSE using the Bethesda-provided tool. Please Google for details.

Oldrim BSAs need to be extracted for SSE and optionally repacked to a new SSE-spec BSA.

Non-SKSE-dependent Oldrim scripts mostly work fine in SSE and as far as I know there is no quick and easy way to "convert" them- they have to be rewritten if for some reason they don't work in SSE.

And finally, I have always been baffled by the "Smooth Normals" option in NifOpt. Like you, my paradigm is that "normals" are a type of texture that determines glossiness and shine. Why a mesh optimizer would be offering to smooth texture files it can't even find (because there are so many different ways of pointing to them other than specifying them in a mesh) has eluded me since the first time I saw it. Based on Ousnius's instructions when I asked about my meshes that exploded when I optimized them, the "Smooth Normals" option is just there to try in case NifOpt blows up your meshes. To me, it's like a "feather propeller" control on a farm tractor- farm tractors ain't got no propellers.

ShmooZ wrote: Thank you for getting me up to speed.

I thought that maybe the smooth normals option, had something to do with meshes tied to normal maps. Could be wrong though.

Feather propeller - LOL

ousnius wrote: The normals that the NIF Optimizer is referring to are in the NIF file. They aren't texture files or normal maps, those are both different things.

Mesh normals are those the optimizer can smooth to potentially fix (or break) the way that things are lit. This is on a vertex basis (for every point in the mesh).

Normal map textures add fine detail to how a mesh is lit by the game. This is on a pixel basis, as opposed to using the mesh like mesh normals do.

TL;DR: The optimizer doesn't do anything to any textures, the normals it's referring to are in the geometry.

https://en.wikipedia...i/Vertex_normal
https://en.wikipedia.../Normal_mapping

ShmooZ wrote: Well that explains that I guess!

I'm somewhat new to meshes, but have done a little work in Nifskope. When it says removed vertex colors in the log, I was getting worried I did something wrong! Thank you for the knowledge

You've never lived until your flight instructor cuts the critical engine on you while you are banked into it at 500 feet on a full-power night departure. Many seat cushions have gone mysteriously missing on such flights.

Edited by Vyxenne, 16 October 2017 - 11:20 PM.

[ousnius]

In response to post #54447578. #54450248, #54450408, #54450613 are all replies on the same post.

Spoiler

ShmooZ wrote: Trying to understand, from a textures only archive from Oldrim, what if anything would need to be checked for incompatibility?

I understand this tool is primarily to optimize the meshes, but there is also an option to smooth normals. When should that option be used on an Oldrim mod?

Let's say for example: aMidianBorn Caves and Mines

Sorry so many questions, but I'm just trying to understand the possible file type incompatibilities for Oldrim mods.

Plugins, scripts, meshes, and...normals?

Thank you for creating this incredibly useful tool :)

Vyxenne wrote:

from a textures only archive from Oldrim, what if anything would need to be checked for incompatibility?

Oldrim textures work pretty well right out of the box in SSE- no conversion required.

I'm just trying to understand the possible file type incompatibilities for Oldrim mods. Plugins, scripts, meshes, and...normals?

Some Oldrim meshes work in SSE without any conversion. That said, you should still Optimize them using NifOpt because there are Block and Node naming conventions in SSE that don't exist in Oldrim as well as other differences that only Ousnius can understand. :wub: The only reason NOT to optimze an Oldrim mesh for SSE is when it doesn't work after optimization. I have several mods whose meshes had to be reverted to Oldrim spec because optimizing them broke them, whether I optimized with "Smooth Normals" checked or not. And no, they're not headparts- they're minidress outfits. I couldn't even fix them in Outfit Studio, but I've been using them unconverted in my SSE for 11 months and had no problems so far.

Many, if not most, non-SKSE-dependent Oldrim plugins (esp/esm files) work in SSE without any conversion. That said, you should still resave them in CK64 to avoid potential hidden issues that don't surface until months later- by which time you have no idea what's causing them. Skyrim is like that.

Oldrim animations need to be converted for SSE using the Bethesda-provided tool. Please Google for details.

Oldrim BSAs need to be extracted for SSE and optionally repacked to a new SSE-spec BSA.

Non-SKSE-dependent Oldrim scripts mostly work fine in SSE and as far as I know there is no quick and easy way to "convert" them- they have to be rewritten if for some reason they don't work in SSE.

And finally, I have always been baffled by the "Smooth Normals" option in NifOpt. Like you, my paradigm is that "normals" are a type of texture that determines glossiness and shine. Why a mesh optimizer would be offering to smooth texture files it can't even find (because there are so many different ways of pointing to them other than specifying them in a mesh) has eluded me since the first time I saw it. Based on Ousnius's instructions when I asked about my meshes that exploded when I optimized them, the "Smooth Normals" option is just there to try in case NifOpt blows up your meshes. :teehee: To me, it's like a "feather propeller" control on a farm tractor- farm tractors ain't got no propellers. :D

ShmooZ wrote: Thank you for getting me up to speed.

I thought that maybe the smooth normals option, had something to do with meshes tied to normal maps. Could be wrong though.

Feather propeller - LOL :P

Vyxenne wrote: You've never lived until your flight instructor cuts the critical engine on you while you are banked into it at 500 feet on a night approach. Many seat cushions have gone mysteriously missing on such flights.

The normals that the NIF Optimizer is referring to are in the NIF file. They aren't texture files or normal maps, those are both different things.

Mesh normals are those the optimizer can smooth to potentially fix (or break) the way that things are lit. This is on a vertex basis (for every point in the mesh).

Normal map textures add fine detail to how a mesh is lit by the game. This is on a pixel basis, as opposed to using the mesh like mesh normals do.

TL;DR: The optimizer doesn't do anything to any textures, the normals it's referring to are in the geometry.

https://en.wikipedia...i/Vertex_normal
https://en.wikipedia.../Normal_mapping

In response to post #54447578. #54450248, #54450408, #54450613, #54452678 are all replies on the same post.

Spoiler

ShmooZ wrote: Trying to understand, from a textures only archive from Oldrim, what if anything would need to be checked for incompatibility?

I understand this tool is primarily to optimize the meshes, but there is also an option to smooth normals. When should that option be used on an Oldrim mod?

Let's say for example: aMidianBorn Caves and Mines

Sorry so many questions, but I'm just trying to understand the possible file type incompatibilities for Oldrim mods.

Plugins, scripts, meshes, and...normals?

Thank you for creating this incredibly useful tool

Vyxenne wrote:

from a textures only archive from Oldrim, what if anything would need to be checked for incompatibility?

Oldrim textures work pretty well right out of the box in SSE- no conversion required.

I'm just trying to understand the possible file type incompatibilities for Oldrim mods. Plugins, scripts, meshes, and...normals?

Some Oldrim meshes work in SSE without any conversion. That said, you should still Optimize them using NifOpt because there are Block and Node naming conventions in SSE that don't exist in Oldrim as well as other differences that only Ousnius can understand. The only reason NOT to optimze an Oldrim mesh for SSE is when it doesn't work after optimization. I have several mods whose meshes had to be reverted to Oldrim spec because optimizing them broke them, whether I optimized with "Smooth Normals" checked or not. And no, they're not headparts- they're minidress outfits. I couldn't even fix them in Outfit Studio, but I've been using them unconverted in my SSE for 11 months and had no problems so far.

Many, if not most, non-SKSE-dependent Oldrim plugins (esp/esm files) work in SSE without any conversion. That said, you should still resave them in CK64 to avoid potential hidden issues that don't surface until months later- by which time you have no idea what's causing them. Skyrim is like that.

Oldrim animations need to be converted for SSE using the Bethesda-provided tool. Please Google for details.

Oldrim BSAs need to be extracted for SSE and optionally repacked to a new SSE-spec BSA.

Non-SKSE-dependent Oldrim scripts mostly work fine in SSE and as far as I know there is no quick and easy way to "convert" them- they have to be rewritten if for some reason they don't work in SSE.

And finally, I have always been baffled by the "Smooth Normals" option in NifOpt. Like you, my paradigm is that "normals" are a type of texture that determines glossiness and shine. Why a mesh optimizer would be offering to smooth texture files it can't even find (because there are so many different ways of pointing to them other than specifying them in a mesh) has eluded me since the first time I saw it. Based on Ousnius's instructions when I asked about my meshes that exploded when I optimized them, the "Smooth Normals" option is just there to try in case NifOpt blows up your meshes. To me, it's like a "feather propeller" control on a farm tractor- farm tractors ain't got no propellers.

ShmooZ wrote: Thank you for getting me up to speed.

I thought that maybe the smooth normals option, had something to do with meshes tied to normal maps. Could be wrong though.

Feather propeller - LOL

Vyxenne wrote: You've never lived until your flight instructor cuts the critical engine on you while you are banked into it at 500 feet on a night approach. Many seat cushions have gone mysteriously missing on such flights.

ousnius wrote: The normals that the NIF Optimizer is referring to are in the NIF file. They aren't texture files or normal maps, those are both different things.

Mesh normals are those the optimizer can smooth to potentially fix (or break) the way that things are lit. This is on a vertex basis (for every point in the mesh).

Normal map textures add fine detail to how a mesh is lit by the game. This is on a pixel basis, as opposed to using the mesh like mesh normals do.

TL;DR: The optimizer doesn't do anything to any textures, the normals it's referring to are in the geometry.

https://en.wikipedia...i/Vertex_normal
https://en.wikipedia.../Normal_mapping

Well that explains that I guess!

I'm somewhat new to meshes, but have done a little work in Nifskope. When it says removed vertex colors in the log, I was getting worried I did something wrong! Thank you for the knowledge

[ousnius]

In response to post #54448848.

Spoiler

R246 wrote:

Let me preface this by saying SSE NIF Optimizer is not the cause of this issue.

A few images of the issue: https://imgur.com/a/tqXJQ

 

Oldrim female eye meshes are all broken for me. Even the vanilla Oldrim eyesfemale.nif, freshly extracted from BSA exhibits the issue in NifSkope and Skyrim SE. The issue is part of the eye is gone. It's not black, it's physically gone and I can see through the missing part. Running the mesh through the Optimizer doesn't fix or worsen the issue. Oldrim male eye meshes aren't affected.

 

The mesh works fine in Oldrim obviously, and previous version of NifSkope. But it's always broken in SE. I can only imagine every single port of an Oldrim female follower has this issue. Recreating the heads with CK64 isn't feasible, so a fix, or a way to swap the eye mesh with a valid SE one is needed, if that's even possible...

 

Any thoughts?

I spent quite a while comparing the meshes and other data. It's really weird, but I think it has to have something to do with the order of triangles that changed from Oldrim to SSE? At least that's the only thing that affects it. I'm not really sure if I can fix it automatically in the optimizer.

To fix it, you could copy the "NiSkinPartition" block from a working eye to the broken eye mesh using NifSkope. You have to link the index to the NiSkinInstance block again, so that the partition appears under it.