Pack Guar and Merchant Altering Mods

[moho25]

Two separate questions/issues.


1. How does Morrowind handle mods that implement changes to vendor/merchant inventory?
I ask because I'm an experienced TES mod user, I've tried at least three mods that add purchasable bedrolls/campfires from vendors, and none work properly. Looking at my load list, I don't think I'm currently using any mods that add new items in this manner.

Here's what I experience when attempting to add mods that do this:

• Putting the mod at the very end of my load order doesn't work
• Using a multipatch made with TES3CMD doesn't work
• Advancing a day or two of in-game time doesn't work
• Loading only the single mod doesn't work (on an existing PT)

The only way I've gotten one of these mods to work (Black Hope Camping) is by loading only that mod on a new PT. Then, the item is in the merchant inventory (on an unrelated note, purchasing this particular camping set doesn't actually remove money from the player's inventory).

Is there something I'm missing about how new items get added to vendors when using these mods on an existing load order? I thought perhaps it was a leveled list thing, but UESP seems to indicate that merchants don't use these in MW. In addition, even if this was involved, the multipatch takes care of this. I also custom package every mod and install via Wrye Mash, so I'm certain there's no install error. I have no idea why none are working, and since it seems to happen with all three mods I've tried, that suggests I'm missing... something. Well, or that there's actually a problem with all three mods. Anyone have any ideas/advice?


2. Pack Guar mods.
I'd really like to use one of these, and am having a hard time deciding, since all seem to have significant drawbacks. I'd like to briefly share my experience when testing and then hear from others as to which one they prefer.

• Grumpy's original -- The most basic of the five I tried, but the water walking has an issue and there's no way to monitor health.
  • Custom trade dialogue is nice; doesn't use a merchant system
  • Flees combat, has high health
  • Small guar
  • Walks on water, but the animation for this was glitched in my test
  • Very speedy. I like how fast it is and that it doesn't constantly start/stop; stays nice and close.
• Sven's -- Probably my least favorite.
  • Uses an actual merchant menu for storage, which isn't ideal
  • Can't water walk, which is a big problem
  • Guar seemed to immediately have pathing problems following me; not good
  • Speeds up nicely when following, but is a huge guar
  • The seller in Balmora is a nice feature
• Little Hazel -- Very similar to Grumpy's but with more features:
  • No glitched water walking animation
  • Following mechanic worked pretty well; minor problems with pathing
  • Runs smoothly, but very slow
  • Uses a nice alternative menu to select commands
  • "Feed" appears in the above menu, when health is below a certain level
  • The "Whistle" feature is something that really attracted me to this one, b/c I can see losing the guar. However, when I tried to use the whistle, the game froze and I had to hard quit, which is worrisome.
  • Is an ESM file, which seems unnecessary
• Pack Animal Merchant -- First time I tested this in Pelagiad the game crashed as I approached the vendor. It worked on the second try.
  • Large guar
  • Uses same trade menu as Grumpy/Hazel
  • Only has stay/come commands
  • Runs slow and does lots of warping to the player's location, which is a annoying
  • Can't water walk
• Dark Pack Guar -- Seems to be the most complete, lore-friendly, and stable of the bunch.
  • Medium-size guar
  • Very lore-friendly implementation
  • Not a huge fan of the custom indigo textures; would prefer original ones
  • Very nice system of being able to query the guar's health/status
  • Engages in combat, but has less health than the others
  • Stays in place when player levitates
  • Walks on water okay
  • Had quite a bit of trouble with pathing the player
  • Runs too fast, so constantly starts and stops, which is annoying; lots of warping like the guar from Pack Animal Merchant, but warping was more consistent

So, it seems all of these have their own issues; none function perfectly. Waterwalking is non-negotiable, so that immediately omits two.

Anyone want to share their experience, likes/dislikes about the other 3 or a different mod altogether?

[Oblivionaddicted]

You should learn using the TESCS to easily edit the mods.

 

Use mlox to set your load order.

Use the TESPCD to detect the conflicts.

Use TESAME to easily cancel the changes on vanilla elements or remove custom elements from mods.

[moho25]

You should learn using the TESCS to easily edit the mods.

 

Use mlox to set your load order.

Use the TESPCD to detect the conflicts.

Use TESAME to easily cancel the changes on vanilla elements or remove custom elements from mods.

 

1. I'm learning how to use the Construction Set, but all the guar mods involve scripting, and that is something I have little to no experience in. I'd be just as likely to bork the mods further.

2. I already use Mlox to deal with load order.

3. TES3CMD detects conflicts and remedies them with a multipatch. I also use it to clean my mods.

4. I've already inspected the mods in the CS and MWEdit. See #1.

 

To be clear, I'm not asking for a primer on how to edit these mods. I'm asking for insight on what I could possibly be missing in #1 of my OP (given that I've already tried all standard methods of troubleshooting) and I'm asking for the opinions of players who have used the mods in #2.

[Oblivionaddicted]

You can change many things in these mods without any scripting, like the health, size, speed and waterwalking.

 

There are many scripting tutorials in the web and you shouldn't have trouble finding people who can help you make good scripts in this site.

[moho25]

You can change many things in these mods without any scripting, like the health, size, speed and waterwalking.

 

The health is defined in the scripts as well as the Creature object. Most of the authors have left comments in the scripts saying both would need to be changed for the effects to work. Size I haven't figured out yet, since every single guar regardless of in-game size always has "1.0" defined in the Scale parameter of their Creature object, which doesn't make sense. Not unless they all have a custom mesh, which they don't.

 

Either way, these are things I'm already aware of; they don't actually answer the questions I posed in my OP.

Edited November 26, 2016 by moho25

[Dragon32]

On bedrolls:

Usual thing is to get a mod to load last, then the changes it makes supersede those of mods earlier in your load order. But that's not working for you.

Couple of ways I believe you can add things to a merchant's inventory: put new items in a crate, put the crate in the game world and make the merchant the owner of the crate. Effect is that the new items are in the merchant's inventory. I don't think these mods have done that, based on your experience.

The other way is to add the new items directly to the merchant's inventory. However. When you visit a merchant in game (or any NPC) that NPC's state (disposition etc.) is saved in your save game. Records in save games overwrite those in mods.

So, assuming these bedroll mods don't add new NPCs selling these items (in which case I have no idea what's going on) and are changing existing merchants then you can either (i) visit a bedroll-selling merchant you haven't been to in-game before, (ii) hack your save game, (iii) start a new game.

For (ii) I'd use Enchanted Editor, get the ID of the merchant ingame from the console, load up your .ESS save file in EE, then delete the relevant NPC record from the save.

 

On pack guars:

I've never used them. Not sure if abot's Guars mod has pack guars or if those are just ridable ones.

[moho25]

@Dragon32 --

 

Ahhhh. Now this makes more sense. The bedrolls/campfires are indeed added directly to the inventory of existing NPCs. So, it sounds like this issue is related to my saved games then. I tried a "Repair" in Wrye Mash, but maybe that doesn't fix this type of issue. So, it sounds like if I want to add any new mods that modify existing NPCs, I need to edit at least one save with the Enchanted Editor. I'm assuming deleting their record from the save will also reset their inventory to the default, so I should make sure they don't have anything I previously sold them that I may want back.

 

I looked at Abot's guar mod briefly. The guars are mounts, but from memory, they also serve as pack animals (storage). It's an option, but my character is pretty speedy at this point, so a mount isn't a huge priority. Appreciate the suggestion, though. Thanks!

Edited November 27, 2016 by moho25

[Dragon32]

Yeah, removing an NPC's record will reset them (stats, disposition) and their inventory to the default

 

abot makes excellent mods, whilst I haven't tried it I'd recommend at least taking his mod for a trial run.