Possibly a CWO problem - guards massacring each other

[Rubicon83]

After having seen that awesome trailer-like video of the Civil War Overhaul mod, I was overjoyed and couldn't wait to get it into Skyrim with a clean start and play all that original in-depth Civil War content that was discarded by Bethesda. :smile:

 

Well, now its years later and I found out that it has since been pulled from the nexus and I can't find support for it anywhere. Why? It makes it all the more difficult to troubleshoot it so I figured I might as well throw a bone here and hope to get lucky.

 

Anyway... I speculate that my problem is related to a specific function within the mod itself; you see, on occasion, the latest version of the mod has me seeing "Imperial Spies" and "Stormcloak Spies" (labeled as such when you target them) sneaking around in their enemies' cities wearing that respective city's guard outfit. Sometimes authentic guards see them, they get hunted down and are usually killed before they manage to escape. This is fun and lore-friendly.

 

However, as of late, upon entering the city of Riften, I often find myself in the middle of a pitched battle in the streets with Riften Guards (labeled as such, not spies) running around trying to murder each other. This causes some problems (not to mention the obvious lore-breaking effect) because named NPCs that may or may not be essential to some of the side missions tend to get killed. (see attached image)

 

Now, I don't know if this is specifically a CWO problem, I do have several other mods installed. I just figured that it could have something to do with that spy-script interfering with the programmed identities of the Riften Guards as well, if it is at all possible. This happens both in the streets and also, one time, within Mistveil Keep.

 

The annoying thing is that, since CWO has been pulled from nexusmods, I can't really find the proper forum to post in. I hope you bear with me on this.

Edited February 26, 2017 by Rubicon83

[Rubicon83]

And now I can add the guards of Shor's Stone to that list of strange homicidal behavior. I recently left Riften to mine some ore in Shor's Stone and when I reached the vilage, again, two guards on patrol immediately attacked each other as soon as they came into view of one another

 

However, I can now confirm that this does NOT happen with the guards in either Falkreath or Whiterun, so it seems to be a problem located specifically in the Rift.

Also, neither guard seems to go red on the compass, so I am not designated hostile to either.

 

As I said, it might not be a problem that's connected to CWO, it was simply my suspicion.

 

Has anyone experienced similar problems??

[Eimernase]

Had the same too, but without CWO.
In Whiterun battle a girl comes out of the towngate and 6 guards (inklusive Rikke) attacked her
Luckily, she wasnt able to die, but i couldnt see that and blow the guards away with a shout :whistling:

Near the same was a bit before or after (didnt remembered exactly), going to an imperial camp to take a new quest and all was hostile against me (was imperial too).
Bad idea, my horse kills all..lol.
At the other side, the imperials walks often in my fighting way...and going killed. The others didnt got hostile against me if i killed some of them.

So i dont think its an issue only from this mod.
I havent any mod in which would change something at this questline or at any quest.
The only difference for me was, i did this time those civil war-questline a lot later, all other questlines was already done inclusive alduin.
Few quests of it was sometimes a bit weird, didnt work as they should or i remembered from earlier.
Maybe it has something to do that i did it this times very later..not sure.

[Rubicon83]

Had the same too, but without CWO.

In Whiterun battle a girl comes out of the towngate and 6 guards (inklusive Rikke) attacked her

Luckily, she wasnt able to die, but i couldnt see that and blow the guards away with a shout :whistling:

 

Near the same was a bit before or after (didnt remembered exactly), going to an imperial camp to take a new quest and all was hostile against me (was imperial too).

Bad idea, my horse kills all..lol.

At the other side, the imperials walks often in my fighting way...and going killed. The others didnt got hostile against me if i killed some of them.

So i dont think its an issue only from this mod.

I havent any mod in which would change something at this questline or at any quest.

The only difference for me was, i did this time those civil war-questline a lot later, all other questlines was already done inclusive alduin.

Few quests of it was sometimes a bit weird, didnt work as they should or i remembered from earlier.

Maybe it has something to do that i did it this times very later..not sure.

 

 

 

Its the same with me, I haven't joined either the Empire or the Stormcloaks yet either because I want to wait a little with that.

 

However, it does seem unlikely; why would our decision to postpone the quest to join either side affect npc behavior? O.o

Edited March 2, 2017 by Rubicon83

[Eimernase]

I dont know why it is.
But i noticed that only this time i joined the Empire very late after near all others was done.
This questline is heavily scripted and here and there are few mistakes with that, also if you join earlier.

As example, at the whiterun-battle i called a dragon for help. Was funny to see they burned all down, but the counter wasnt realy working so the Stormcloaks spawned near endless. The Jarl comes out and was fighting against my dragon-helper. :ermm:
At this time the quest was totally broken so i needed to load an older save file.

Edited March 3, 2017 by Eimernase

[Elyssaen]

I get this too. It's got so bad that I avoid Riften to try to keep Ingun Black-Briar alive, as some friendly fire at some point set the Riften guard against the Black-Briar faction. But it definitely started with Riften Guard vs Riften Guard.

 

Eimernase's suggestion is it isn't CWO, but I'm not sure: I experience exactly what the OP says, whereas Eimernase's experiences don't sound quite the same.

 

Here's every mod I have that has any business whatsoever editing a generic NPC:

 

Civil War Overhaul

WARZONES

Immersive Patrols

Inconsequential NPCs

Skyrim Immersive Creatures

 

I could of course have some other mod with a dirty edit. But I think it's probably CWO, and also think it's connected with the Spies it places. It might actually be intentional. I think I've noticed that the 'ganged up on' Riften Guard always has odd inventory – poisons, though not specifically Frenzy ones as you'd hope. I suspect it's a CWO feature that has a habit of screwing up faction relations.

 

Edit: I thought I'd try to understand some of CWO from TES5Edit, but I'm immediately left wondering: "Why does CWO turn the Whiterun guards outside Dragonsreach into foxes?"

Edited October 1, 2017 by Elyssaen

[McPipe]

Its 1 year later, but this is the only post that i have found regarding this bug, so i will post here.

I have the same exact problem.
After the guards are done, they go and try to kill the orphans.
I have no idea whats going on.
And its only in Riften, nowhere else.

I will try disabling the CWO.

Thanks for posting this.

[McPipe]

Disabling CWO, uninstalling it and even cleaning the Save file didn't work.

PLEASE SHARE YOUR LOAD ORDER TO COMPARE MODS:

Here is mine:

Skyrim.esm=1

Update.esm=1

Dawnguard.esm=1

HearthFires.esm=1

Dragonborn.esm=1

Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch.esp=1

paradise_halls.esm=1

More Interactive Items.ESM=1

More Interactive Items [Dawnguard].ESM=1

SkyTEST-RealisticAnimals&Predators.esm=1

Skyrim Project Optimization.esm=1

More Interactive Items [Hearthfire].ESM=1

EpicRestoration.esm=1

Campfire.esm=1

more_Travelers.esm=1

daymoyl.esm=1

DynamicHumanDrops.esm=1

Extra Encounters Reborn - Basic.esm=1

TravellersOfSkyrim.esm=1

HighResTexturePack01.esp=0

HighResTexturePack02.esp=0

HighResTexturePack03.esp=0

VanillaReducedTextures.esp=1

SkyUI.esp=1

Dr_ItemBones.esp=1

Guard Dialogue Overhaul.esp=1

Weapons & Armor Fixes_Remade.esp=1

Clothing & Clutter Fixes.esp=1

SkyrimLive.esp=1

Complete Crafting Overhaul_Remade.esp=1

Rebirth Monster.esp=1

Extra NPCs.esp=1

BlackthornManor.esp=1

Weapons & Armor_TrueWeaponsLvlLists.esp=1

SkyrimMoreSpawns.esp=1

High Level Enemies.esp=1

OBIS.esp=1

OBISDB.esp=1

Civil War Overhaul.esp=1

Shadow Remover.esp=1

Ranger Cabins.esp=1

Artifact Disenchanting.esp=1

Convenient Bridges.esp=1

Populated Lands Roads Paths Legendary.esp=1

Town Traders.esp=1

more_Travelers.esp=1

Wildcat - Combat of Skyrim.esp=1

UFO - Dawnguard AddOn.esp=1

HOPv - Horses On Patrol - Vanilla.esp=1

SOTGenesisMod.esp=1

more_Travelers-light.esp=1

more idle markers.esp=1

BFT Ships and Carriages.esp=1

Extra Guards.esp=1

Inconsequential NPCs.esp=1

CornerofTheSkyrim.esp=1

Immersive Encounters.esp=1

Populated Dungeons Caves Ruins.esp=1

Inigo.esp=1

Run For Your Lives.esp=1

UFO - Ultimate Follower Overhaul.esp=1

UFO - Heartfire AddOn.esp=1

ERSO 30 - Better Enemy AI.esp=1

aggressive_combat_style.esp=1

RealisticNeedsandDiseases.esp=1

Lakeview Dibella Shrine.esp=1

HearthCraft.esp=1

Immersive Patrols II.esp=1

Immersive Wenches.esp=1

Extra Encounters Reborn - CSP.esp=1

Hunterborn.esp=1

Populated Cities Towns Villages.esp=1

Frostfall.esp=1

1nivWICCloaks.esp=1

High Level Enemies - Dawnguard.esp=1

High Level Enemies - Dragonborn.esp=1

LeftHandRings.esp=1

LeftHandRings_1stPersonView.esp=1

RND_Dawnguard-Patch.esp=1

RND_Dragonborn-Patch.esp=1

DangerousGame.esp=1

Insignificant Object Remover.esp=1

LootandDegradation.esp=1

Quieter Bears - No Idle.esp=1

ERSO 09.1 - Essential Children.esp=1

ArmyReforms.esp=1

SBD.esp=1

Craftable Anvil and Smelter.esp=1

dawnguardelitesprotectors.esp=1

LakeviewManorRoad.esp=1

Tame Beast.esp=1

Civil War Healers.esp=1

Guard Build (HF) 1.esp=1

DigUpDragonBones.esp=1

paradise_halls_farengars_study.esp=1

LakeviewManorFishHatchery.esp=1

ThiefSecretEntrances.esp=1

CUYC_CleanUpYourCorpses.esp=1

RND_HearthFires-Patch.esp=1

RND_AnimalLoot.esp=1

CobbEncumbrance.esp=1

CollectBodies.esp=1

Rdr-Harvesting01.esp=1

Toys.esp=1

DSCR.esp=1

DeadBodyCommentsRemoved_Complete.esp=1

MontyXDSG.esp=1

Dragon Souls To Attributes.esp=1

_increased_enemy_count.esp=1

EviscerateCorpses.esp=1

Extended Encounters.esp=1

ExtraCrafty.esp=1

Extra Encounters Reborn - HSR.esp=1

Artifact Disenchanting - Dragonborn.esp=1

FormsEdit.esp=1

Fast Respawn 72 Hours 1.2.esp=1

heimskrshutsup3.esp=1

GiveGiftstoNPCs-voiced.esp=1

glowing-enemies-wellsantos.esp=1

Grayzone.esp=1

GuardRequests - Copy.esp=1

LWPlayerHeadTracking.esp=1

IllusionSpells.esp=1

JaxonzRenamer.esp=1

_Solitude Bookstore.esp=1

skyrimfortsbanditraids.esp=1

dragonslayerspackfarmsmillsminesinns.esp=1

CellarDoor.esp=1

paradise_halls_fellglow_slave_camp.esp=1

Immersive Citizens - AI Overhaul Lite.esp=1

DovEnemies.esp=1

CollectBonesAndScales.esp=1

daymoyl_DawnguardAddon.esp=1

Populated Skyrim Civil War Patrols.esp=1

Bells of Skyrim.esp=1

Artifact Disenchanting - Dawnguard.esp=1

Guards On Your Home v1.esp=1

Shortcuts.esp=1

DrunkenDragon.esp=1

nopinewatchroadbandits.esp=1

SlaversHideout.esp=1

HoldBorderBanners.esp=1

ImperialMail.esp=1

Immersive Speechcraft.esp=1

dragonslayerspackexterior.esp=1

FishingInSkyrim.esp=1

Populated Imperials Stormcloaks Battles.esp=0

More Guards.esp=1

Slavehideout.esp=1

HoneysideThievesGuildTunnel.esp=1

MoreBreakdownsForCCO.esp=1

Extra Encounters Reborn - Dawnguard.esp=1

fine goods from morrowind.esp=1

HausSeeblickKellerAddon.esp=1

My Home Is Your Home.esp=1

3ISLLakeviewMerchant.esp=1

guardsvsbanditswarzones.esp=1

LootParalyzedPeople.esp=1

MorePP.esp=1

MoreSoundOptions.esp=1

MoreThugsForPettyThieves.esp=1

new-enchantments.esp=1

No NPC Greetings.esp=1

Solitude No Sewer Sound.esp=1

nomorestupiddog.esp=1

NoRadialBlur.esp=1

NPC Bartering.esp=1

sOverEncumbered.esp=1

Meem0OutfitNPCs.esp=1

Remove Smoke and Dust.esp=1

platoon - combine potions extended.esp=1

Radiance.esp=1

RemoveExteriorFog-AIO.esp=1

ScrollsRolls.esp=1

SimplyKnock.esp=1

CS_SoulFragmentsToSoulGems.esp=1

UnreadBooksGlow.esp=1

YourMarketStall.esp=1

Bells of Skyrim - Reduced volume.esp=1

Breezehome Guard female.esp=1

Breezehome Guard male.esp=1

PAH_Merchant_Addon.esp=1

pro-bla-blook-custom-npc.esp=1

Convenient Horses.esp=1

Thugs.esp=1

strongestassassinencounter.esp=1

Lakeview tree removal.esp=1

HearthfireMultiKid.esp=1

NoMusicInHearthfireHomes.esp=1

HearthfireMultiKid_LastName.esp=1

Populated Skyrim Prisons Cells.esp=1

alesCampBedrollsSupplies.esp=1

Grab Moveable Statics.esp=1

wizDynamicThings.esp=1

SOT-Sleeping.esp=1

AdventurersAndTravelers.esp=1

suspiciouscityguards.esp=1

TravellersOfSkyrim - Vanilla.esp=1

Ordinator - Perks of Skyrim.esp=1

ASIS-Dependency.esp=1

[McPipe]

I just started a new game, with all these mods installed, and went to Riften.
No problem at all.

Why!!!!??????

The Riften guard riots bug is getting out of hands.

[McPipe]

Ok, i figured out whats causing it:

First, it can happend on any Hold, thats important to know.

-For this weird thing to happend you must have both, Ordinator and Civil War Overhaul.
-When you max Illusion with Ordinator, you get a perk that allows you to summon a "Blind Guardian", by clicking on any NPC figthing.
-When the "Spy" event triggers, you must use this perk on the "Spy", and have him get a "Blind Guardian".
-The guards around will start hitting the blind guardian made from the spy, and also the spy, but once they are done, they attack the rest of the guards, since the "Blind guardian" is nothing but another regular guard, and now they sense every other guard as an enemy.

The fact that this continues after leaving and coming back to the area, still is a mystery why.
But knowing why happends is half the battle.

Also, im trying to come up with ideas to stop it.
I'll post here if i come up with anything.

Im going to leave some "tags" here, so people having this same issue can google it and maybe help:
Bug, Glitch, Problem, Guards are killing eachother, Riften, Solitud, Markarth, Whiterun, Windhelm, Guards riot, Guards killing everybody.