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Colorizing Grey Base Textures...?

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#1
DeathMotif

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I have noticed that certain armor pieces diffuse textures come in greyscale, yet those textures are used to display in color.  I would appreciate it if anyone could explain to me how this is done.  I have explored the CK and BGSM data, and I can't see the connection.  For anyone interested in looking to see what I mean, the most prominent example is power armor pieces.  There is no specialized texture for the military color, so it must be the base grey texture being supplied a color transformation.  I have a need to replicate this effect in many projects I am working on, and it would save me a lot of time (and computer resources) if I can figure this out.  I need to limit the number of new textures to something more reasonable than one for each color.  Thanks.



#2
VIitS

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It uses color index values, which point to a position on a palette (which is linked in the bgsm as the "Greyscale Texture"). It's also used for the baseball bat, some of the shipping containers, and hair colors.



#3
DeathMotif

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I see.  I have found the ColorRemappingIndex in the appropriate OMODs.  However, I am uncertain how they are being applied.  What do the floats for Value 1 and Value 2 represent?  Percentages?  How do they relate to the palette?  Last question, how do I make a custom palette?



#4
VIitS

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You can make a custom palette by just making a texture that consists of a bunch of small, different colored rectangles, just look at the existing ones (paint.net is great for that) to see what I mean. I imagine the values (for the ones using the ColorRemappingIndex) are related to position or intensity, not really sure. It's been a little while since I looked at it, but I believe if you are doing it in the CK you'll select where on the palette you want the color to come from, and it sets those values itself. I'm not 100% on that, since I am going purely off of memory of previous tests, and how the existing things that use that method are set up. 

 

In general, most of what I know is from 1) looking at how something I want to do is done (either vanilla or a mod), and figuring out how they did it, or 2) bashing my head against the CK until I either figure out how to do it, or give up and ask :P. It's often easier to do with FO4Edit (either checking the different records a record uses, or looking at the "Referenced By" tab), but you can do it with the CK as well. Right Click -> "Use Info" has the same info as the referenced by tab in FO4Edit.



#5
DeathMotif

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In general, most of what I know is from 1) looking at how something I want to do is done (either vanilla or a mod), and figuring out how they did it, or 2) bashing my head against the CK until I either figure out how to do it, or give up and ask :tongue:. It's often easier to do with FO4Edit (either checking the different records a record uses, or looking at the "Referenced By" tab), but you can do it with the CK as well. Right Click -> "Use Info" has the same info as the referenced by tab in FO4Edit.

 

Agreed.  This is precisely my process as well.  I also tend to prefer the use of FO4Edit as the CK has the annoying tendency to hide information I'm looking for.  I generally give up and ask after spending a day or more on the problem as waiting longer is generally a waste of productive time.  Others may have already encountered the problem and have uncovered solutions for them.  However, asking the question doesn't mean I stop researching the problem.  Indeed, I keep pressing on as I may yet discover the solution for myself.

​In fact, here's a couple of interesting pages I have uncovered since asking the question:

https://translate.go...te_1&edit-text=
https://translate.go...te_2&edit-text=

​Nevertheless, I thank you for your help.  At this point all that's left for me is experimentation.  Now if only I could find a solution to the problem of mod swapping textures on power armor frames (why didn't Bethesda make furniture use OMODs?!).  I have all but given up on that one.  Too much of it seems to be hard coded.



#6
VIitS

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I prefer FO4Edit as well, but some things (like selecting the color from the palette, and a lot of stuff with character customization) are just easier with the CK. 

 

If you don't need to be able to swap the textures after placing, and just want to let different versions be crafted, you can just make a bunch of copies of the base record, and apply a color remapping index (MODC) to the FURN records. You can then throw them all into a formlist, and use the formlist as the created object (CNAM). That would let you still use the single mesh and single gray texture+palette approach. When using placed references, you can apply the remapping index to the REFR and have just the one base record. 

 

Regarding the pages you linked: I thought it might use a range of colors, based on how the palettes are set up. Also, looking at the material swaps involved, I think the problem they were seeing was a result of the material swap trying to apply the color remapping to the material in the MSWP (the decal, rather than the base texture), and if you look at it the bgsm that the BoS OMODs use doesn't have a grayscale texture. Using that sort of Material swap color remapping works fine, it's just the person working on the BoS combat armor didn't understand the system (and didn't bother testing), which is what lead that modder to think that system didn't work at all. If you want to see a working example, check out the baseball bat OMODs. 

 

Definitely with you on wishing there was a similar system to OMODs for furniture, it would make it so you could have one version of a wall and change the texture when placed, rather than having to make a separate category so (as an example) your 30 versions of the foundation piece don't clog up the main concrete category. The possible solution I've come up with is to use scripting to make it so activating the built structure brings up a little menu (same kind as the wait menu, not like the build menu) you can select the texture/color from. If possible, it would change it so any connected structure with the same material that is being affected (by material swap or color remapping index) would also change*.

 

Preferably it would be only accessible while in build mode (so you don't have to deal with accidentally activating it in normal play), but that would probably require building the functionality into the build menu (in much the same way LooksMenu builds its features into the looks menu). While that would actually be preferable, I'm pretty sure it would require being able to mess with the Adobe Scaleform (.swf) files. 

 

The problem of course comes from my complete lack of scripting experience, and I've got so many other things I am working on (and more interested in) that it'll be a very long time before I have the scripting ability to make it work. And least time I checked, doing anything with the Scaleform files requires that I have a rather expensive piece of software, which I would have no other use for (so my preferred method is out, and would still require me to learn a fair amount of scripting).

 

*I think it is possible based on some things I have seen when playing around, but not sure.



#7
chucksteel

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@VlitS you can use JPEXS to edit the flash files. I used it for several projects including fixing DEF UI for the XB1 so you don't need Adobe Flash but, it's not the most user friendly program in the world. 



#8
VIitS

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@VlitS you can use JPEXS to edit the flash files. I used it for several projects including fixing DEF UI for the XB1 so you don't need Adobe Flash but, it's not the most user friendly program in the world. 

Well that certainly helps, it means it would be possible. I'll look into that should I get ever figure out all the other scripting (papyrus and/or f4se) required. I'm pretty good at bashing my head against things until they make sense :D. Just need to find the time to work on it, however long that might be.



#9
DeathMotif

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@VlitS you can use JPEXS to edit the flash files. I used it for several projects including fixing DEF UI for the XB1 so you don't need Adobe Flash but, it's not the most user friendly program in the world.

I thought those were flash files. Been a long time since I did anything in Flex and ActionScript. Thanks for confirming my suspicion.

#10
DeathMotif

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I hear you Vlits. I'm more comfortable coding...C# in particular. I could probably write a wrapper around key systems to add functionality faster than it would take me to learn Papyrus and figure out how to get it to let me script a solution for a problem. Like you said, I have too many other projects going right now to bother. So not going to happen. I wish there was a single place for comprehensive tutorials for the CK, XEdit, and Papyrus. It'd be nice to be able to learn what everything is in <insert BethSoft game title here>. My biggest dismay is in learning precisely how limited Fallout 4 remains despite quite a few improvements to the engine. I'm a game developer, so I know a few things about engines and scripting. It wouldn't be very difficult to add many of the features that would make modding FO4 much better...like furniture modding. Maybe in the next engine...





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