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Tracking 'tilt' on a creature


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#21
dubiousintent

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Perhaps you could take a trick from films?  When you are "driving" all you really perceive is the "interior" of the cab (the dashboard and instruments) and the view through the windows.  That is in effect your "set".  Any other view of the vehicle is an "exterior", which is a different "set".  I thought this was where Mktavish was going with his idea of two "creatures".  You just switch between sets (perspectives) as needed.

 

If you have a functional approach with the "flea" cab, then the only difference with a larger vehicle view from the cab interior would be the vehicle hood/bonnet.  Everything else would be an "exterior" view, with the possible exception of the view out the rear window or mirror.  But that view of the hood/bonnet would still remain basically the same.  It's what's beyond the bonnet that would "rise up" or "drop away".

 

I suspect part of your problem is that you are just letting the havok physics take over, which IMHO is a mistake.  When you drive a vehicle off-road or up/down grades you don't let the vehicle throw you around any which-way, nor do you try particularly to remain in the same vertical axis.  You try to retain control which includes maintaining a clear view through the windshield of your route.  When climbing you don't tilt forward; you push yourself back in the seat by pushing on the steering wheel with your arms (or are restrained there by a harness) so you retain a "straight ahead" view of the "road", even if the view is tilted compared to the horizon.  The same is true when you are descending a hill.  Your focus is on remaining on the "road", not on the horizon.

 

Even when you are thrown from side to side, you are actively moving your body (or at least your head) to remain "upright" to keep that view, which is why you lean/tilt in the opposite direction.  From the perspective of the cab interior your goal is to maintain the axis of view through the windscreen to the road, not through the vertical axis of the "driver".  The only time you might lean forward is when you need to check the clearance between the cab roof and any overhead obstructions.

 

This is not something the havok physics system takes into consideration as far as I know.  So you may have to devise your own mechanism if restraining the body against the seat is not sufficient.

 

Just another perspective on an interesting problem.

 

-Dubious-



#22
Mktavish

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That it is smoke and mirrors , yes that is what I mean.   I think what your saying dubious , is what XRE does ? or atleast you seem familiar with it. In the later part of your post anyways ?

 

But yes the art of making the player view think something is going on , always a good aproach imo.

 

To clarify what I mean ... The player is in the flea cab and always reacts to that ... but with different hoods per car. (another dubious mention)

Then the actual larger vehicles are a separate creature , with a follow package.  Very close , so as to think it is neary on top of the flea.

Just a concept really , to maybe alleviate the unbearable situation you are seeing.

But still ... have to see the actual workings to know.


Edited by Mktavish, 21 September 2017 - 06:15 AM.


#23
uhmattbravo

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I think I know what you guys are saying, and I planned to do something similar, (except the visible mesh will be an activator) for some aircraft so that they tilt with the player's view angle, and probably boats for different reasons.

The problem I'm having, and correct me if I'm wrong, sounds to be the opposite of what you seem to be describing, Dubious. See, the player's already restrained in one spot relative to the car, but since the vehicle can tilt and the player can't it's more like the player automatically overcompensates and leans forward when going uphill, and backward going down. I could live with that, but without being able to detect the vehicle's pitch, as it leans back, for example, and the front end rises, the player doesn't, so if I had those angles (or at least one) I could raise and lower the player with it (and maybe a little forward and back to keep the player's view in one spot in relation to the vehicle like you're describing.

Edited by uhmattbravo, 22 September 2017 - 12:21 PM.


#24
dubiousintent

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From how you described the problem, it sounds like you have the player viewing the "driver" in "third person view" (exterior set), so the havok physics are applied to the body and the vehicle separately.  It appears your driver is only fixed by the butt to the seat.  Otherwise, how can it lean?  Our suggestion is that the driver should be in "first person view" (interior set), looking out through the windshield. That way their perspective (the camera/head) is all you have to track within the cab. 

 

Otherwise I'm suggesting you disconnect the "driver body" from havok and have them "static" in the driver seat.  That way they move with the vehicle instead of in reaction to it.  Only the head should move in reaction to the havok, but the gyroscopic axis should be horizontal, in line with the hood and LOS to the road.  That will more reasonably limit the amount of movement.  Unless you can actually determine a way to get those pitch/yaw/tilt angles.  (Request to Jazzisparis?)

 

I haven't looked at either your mod or XRE in game (not interested in driving around the Mojave, and chasing another problem at the moment), so this is all "theoretical" application of the real world for me.  Other than the "different approach" I'm afraid I have nothing useful to offer.

 

-Dubious-



#25
Mktavish

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What Umatts mod does is , shrink the player to flea size I think ?   Then the car being a creature , open to inputs of direction at any given time , runs a script on it to move the player along according to the center of the creature.

 

But creatures can tilt (albeit kinda janky)  and actors can never tilt.

 

So the flea size actor being kept moving at the eyes of a normal sized actor.  Ends up staying straight up , when the creature car is tilting left,right,forward,back.  And depending on the creature center for tilt , causes undue problems with the flea actor field of view.

 

Atleast I think I have that right  Umatt ?



#26
Mktavish

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There is no third person view in this mod.



#27
uhmattbravo

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So far, the flea is the only one that shrinks the player because it otherwise would have the player standing partially in the ground trying to force themself back up. But otherwise, pretty much.

#28
dubiousintent

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Okay, I understand.  But you have two creatures (one of which is the driver), and that is why you have havok forces on each causing them to move in reaction to each other.  Your pivot point is basically your lowest anchored point, causing the top of the head to have the most range of movement.  That is too much movement.

 

Without any "TPV", you can effectively dump the player body elsewhere when you board the cab.  All you need is the "FPV" camera (or just the head if you insist, anchored at the neck) as suggested earlier, fixed on the windshield view.  Bring the body back when the Player exits the cab. As Mktavish said: "Smoke and Mirrors".

 

However, uhmattbravo is saying that he only shrinks the driver in the "flea" vehicle, and that seems to work fairly well?  Have you tried shrinking the size of the driver in the other vehicles in order to reduce the range of their movement?  Or changing the pivot point to higher up the body which will have a similar effect on the range of the head movement?

 

-Dubious-



#29
Mktavish

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Im with ya , I say shrink all



#30
uhmattbravo

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Technically, it's the player and 1 creature for the cars and I'm not really using havok other than what's normally used on any creature, for the car. The player is constantly being moved to the driver's seat with the SetPos function, so the player pretty much ignores the physics engine entirely.

I have tried shrinking the player, but it doesn't make nearly enough difference on the trucks to justify the fact that doing it that way costs the use of the pip boy like it did on the Flea.

If I could raise and lower the player with the front end though, then they'd be able to see past the dashboard going uphill in a way that's just slightly more noticeable than on the pickup and deathcar which have the driver's seat much closer to the center.

I'll play around a bit more with it to that end, and if I still can't get it, I'll either try requesting the new functions (if they're even possible) from JIP or just set the player's position to basically make a chase cam.




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