I prefer Creation Club over mods

[DragonJarvis]

Hello guys,

I know, I know, my Title will probably not make sence to you or may cause you to instantly hate me without knowing why I prefer Creation Club over mods. (for now)

 

I am not here to defend Bethesda or something like that. I just want to share my points of view and why installing mods for Games like Skyrim and Fallout New Vegas were not great experiences to me.

 

Let me get one thing straight right of the start, the prices on the creation club are god awful! I cannot see why I should spend 5$ for one armor set or a weapon, yet I have to admit that I prefer the concept of creation club over modding with the nexus mod manager for example.

 

I started to mod my games around two years ago first with Fallout New Vegas, then with Skyrim. I am currently playing Skyrim with Requiem, RND, Frostfall, Campfire and some more. First thing that really bothered me about some mods is that people not always post instructions on how to install them. Requiem and Frostfall do an oustanding job though to explain how to install them. And yes there are tutorials on youtube, which I watch, like the one from gopher.

 

The second thing that really bothered me is to find out if those mods would work together or not. In my case most of them worked together. HOWEVER after around a houndred ours of gameplay my game started getting wierd and glitching out. Later I found out that one mod conflicted with another and therefore I could start my game from beginning again. That is simply heartbraking.

 

The third thing that annoyed the hell out of me was that I recently just figured out that some mods I used were simply out of date. For example Realistic Needs and Diseases. I did not know that someone made a version 2.0 for RND because the Nexus Page did not show that there was a version of RND that was more up to date. It is really hard to figure out if someone made an updated mod of a mod from another Author. I get the mods I want to try out from video showcases on youtube, however they often link to outdated versions since most of them are a year old or older and often the mod Author does not link to the latest version of the mod.

 

The Last thing that really annoys me are the mods, which require other mods just to work. One bigger Mod really wanted to try out Required another mod and guess what? This Mod also required another mod and even that third mod required a fourth mod just to work! (I am not talking about the most essential Mods Like SkyUI or SKSE etc.)

 

Those things for example, will not happen with creations from the creation club and that is why I prefer creation club or rather the Idea of creation club over mods.

 

To me, modding my game is way more work then it is fun. And when I install mods I always have to fear :"Did I install those right? Will they work with my other mods? Hopefully my game does not crash" and so on.

 

Sure you can argue that all mods are free, which in itself is great, however Is it really "free" when I have constantly work towards getting the mods function properly or if I have constantly to worry about If the mods work together properly?

 

 

Is there really no way for Nexus and modders to get rid of atleast some of those things? I mean cannot nexus ensure, that when I search for Realistic Needs and Diseases that it will show me the latest version instead of the most popular one? I am not refering to the search engine wich will show me the latest uploads because those are most of the time translations anyway.

Or is it not possible that people on the site can upload "packs" of mods which are confirmed to work together and are up to date and which I can install with the click of a button?

 

Thanks for hearing me out.

[WastelandAssassin]

there are plenty of these done already

If you only made a small google search , there are plenty of pre made packs uploaded , though usually not here (though there are a few , as far as I recall)

the problem with making packs is usually getting permissions to upload other modder's work in a single pack , so this won't really happen in most cases (at least , that's my opinion)

 

as for searching for mods , there are plenty of ways of finding the latest versions of mods

your statement shows that you misunderstand a main point when it comes to mods . the fact that someone has made a mod , doesn't guarantee that the same person will be responsible for updated versions of the same concept

in fact , if you look at many of the popular mods here , you can see that many are built around ideas from older mods , tweaked and updated by different mod authors

so it's not like the mod author deciding to upload an updated version of his mod to a different page or something (though this does happen at times)

for finding these mods , there might be updates on the old mod's page or the top comments suggesting newer mods

but since you usually search by the mod's name , and since you won't necessarily know how a mod is named , it might be a problem

to solve this , you can always look for the latest mods in the desired category , or look at videos covering newly released mods

 

that it make CC content easier to use? probably

if you want to spend the price of another game or two , just to get more content to play with , it's really up to you

but I somehow doubt we'll ever get the type of passion projects we've seen thus far , like Enderal or Falskaar , requiring a team of modders and lots of development time

adding the point that Skyrim (both the original version and the SE version) still require a few mods to fix all the bugs in the game

with that in mind , I've somehow lost faith in the capability and desire of Bethesda to playtest their content before release , and fix their bugs

if you want proof of this , just look at how many mods were released for FO4 , aimed at fixing and improving CC content

 

If you wish to use this system , you are of course free to do so (though it's not going to be free , and will most likely be quite costly)

I'll keep myself well away of this horrid contraption with it's overprized mess screwing with some of my most beloved games

but before you swear your love to the CC , wait a bit to see what kind of actual content will be released there

I hope you won't be disappointed , but considering the quality of the releases so far , and their prize tag , I doubt anyone will truly be happy with this system

[misslexi]

ROFLOL! Bethesda saying they've checked/curated/made sure "it just works" means less than nothing because.....Bethesda. This IS the same entity whose every "triple A" release has required extensive fixes from the modding community for the base game itself to "just work" So yeah, don't mind me LMAO over here.

 

Irony. It's what's for breakfast....

 

 

Smells like Pete Hines flunky to me....

[Ondrea]

I still use the original RND without any issues. Just because someone posted a revamped version of something doesn't mean the previous should be removed.

 

And honestly, it may take time but it's not that hard reading the mod page and their forums for potential issues, running things through TES5Edit for conflicts and cleaning. And there's a sense of satisfaction when you've gotten your game to the point of being crash free for more than a couple years. Even unmodded, the game is glitchy, so we have free mods to thank for bringing stability. For some, the modding process is as much a hobby as playing the game itself.

 

But hey if you're enjoying the CC mods and they've created less headaches for you, that's great. I'm grateful for the modders we have here on Nexus. They've created a lot of enjoyment for me through the years. For free.

[TheMightyArchaon]

Yeah I completely understand you, alot of people only drink bottled water too

[morogoth35]

Then you are one of the people who don't enjoy modding and one of the people that would be happy spending money on mods just for convenince. Nothing wrong with that though. However my opinion is that Creation Club is a pile of s#*! only there to grab as much money as possible from people like you. I for example, really enjoy modding. I have over 500 mods on my Skyrim LE and it is more stable than Skyrim SE (I did a lot of testing.) For me there is nothing good with Creation Club. I don't support it at all but if you do then that's fine by me.

[DragonJarvis]

Thank you for your kindly response guys. I hope that I dont come over as the guy who just wants to bash nexus and protect CC because I really dont, that Is why I was pointing out my issues I have with modding, because I hope that in future it can be a more convinient experience to more people.

 

 

there are plenty of these done already

If you only made a small google search , there are plenty of pre made packs uploaded , though usually not here (though there are a few , as far as I recall)

the problem with making packs is usually getting permissions to upload other modder's work in a single pack , so this won't really happen in most cases (at least , that's my opinion)

 

I found out that the Youtuber "ESO" made a survival pack which I can download through another software, which kinda does more what I wanted but that brings me to my other Issue. I need yet again additional software to download and use it the way he does.

My question to that is why do need people to ask mod authors for permission especially when it comes to a modpack where someone made sure all mods of a certain modpack will work together 100%?

 

 

 

 

 

as for searching for mods , there are plenty of ways of finding the latest versions of mods

your statement shows that you misunderstand a main point when it comes to mods . the fact that someone has made a mod , doesn't guarantee that the same person will be responsible for updated versions of the same concept

in fact , if you look at many of the popular mods here , you can see that many are built around ideas from older mods , tweaked and updated by different mod authors

so it's not like the mod author deciding to upload an updated version of his mod to a different page or something (though this does happen at times)

for finding these mods , there might be updates on the old mod's page or the top comments suggesting newer mods

but since you usually search by the mod's name , and since you won't necessarily know how a mod is named , it might be a problem

to solve this , you can always look for the latest mods in the desired category , or look at videos covering newly released mods

 

 

No, I understand that a person who made the mod is not always be responsible for keeping it updated or fixing it. That is exactly what happend with RND and RND2.0 those are from two different people but can it not be Nexus responsibility to make sure the updated version is shown rather then the most popular one? I dont know how it is to upload a mod but isnt there an option for a mod author to say " This mod is and updated version of mod XY" so that nexus can check it and make it easier to find the most up do date mod?

 

As I said in my OP I do look videos for mods but most of the Time those videos are old anyway or the Video user does not make an updated version of mods he suggested in the past. I do use the Category function to find mods all the time but as I said the "latest" mods are most of the time just Translated versions or some minor fixes.

 

 

 

that it make CC content easier to use? probably

if you want to spend the price of another game or two , just to get more content to play with , it's really up to you

but I somehow doubt we'll ever get the type of passion projects we've seen thus far , like Enderal or Falskaar , requiring a team of modders and lots of development time

adding the point that Skyrim (both the original version and the SE version) still require a few mods to fix all the bugs in the game

with that in mind , I've somehow lost faith in the capability and desire of Bethesda to playtest their content before release , and fix their bugs

if you want proof of this , just look at how many mods were released for FO4 , aimed at fixing and improving CC content

 

Why do I need proof? I do belive you, that is why mods like USP, USLEEP exist just to fix Bethesdas base vanilla game. Another question I have to that though is do I need USP USDP (all patches seperate) or just USLEEP?

Well if we do get new landspace with quests to explore or not that remains to be seen but Bethesda said that it is possible to also upload .esm files to CC instead of just .esp files so the option to make bigger projects will be there. In the case of new Landspaces like Falskaar, Moonpath to Elswyr I have to say that I never were able to fully check them out because they bugged out to me really fast. I remember trying out beyond Skyrim Bruma or what it was called just to find out that it either crashed all the time or freezed on loadscreen because my memory ran out. I know there was a fix to the memory issue and that worked but the fact that it is a known issue and I have to download an additional file and do even more research is something that was really annoying.

 

 

 

If you wish to use this system , you are of course free to do so (though it's not going to be free , and will most likely be quite costly)

I'll keep myself well away of this horrid contraption with it's overprized mess screwing with some of my most beloved games

but before you swear your love to the CC , wait a bit to see what kind of actual content will be released there

I hope you won't be disappointed , but considering the quality of the releases so far , and their prize tag , I doubt anyone will truly be happy with this system

Yes, as I said I am really mad about the pricing of some mods.

Well, they released a survival Mod for Skyrim SE wich adds cold and warmth, hunger and fatigue which is similiar to a combination of Frostfall and RND and so far I really like that. I think it is just to exepnsive though.

 

 

 

ROFLOL! Bethesda saying they've checked/curated/made sure "it just works" means less than nothing because.....Bethesda. This IS the same entity whose every "triple A" release has required extensive fixes from the modding community for the base game itself to "just work" So yeah, don't mind me LMAO over here.

Irony. It's what's for breakfast....


Smells like Pete Hines flunky to me....

 

Well to be honest some of th games like Fallout 3 and Skyrim just worked on my Xbox360 (not ps3, ps3 was awful to play them) without any help of mods obviously.

 

 

I still use the original RND without any issues. Just because someone posted a revamped version of something doesn't mean the previous should be removed.

 

And honestly, it may take time but it's not that hard reading the mod page and their forums for potential issues, running things through TES5Edit for conflicts and cleaning. And there's a sense of satisfaction when you've gotten your game to the point of being crash free for more than a couple years. Even unmodded, the game is glitchy, so we have free mods to thank for bringing stability. For some, the modding process is as much a hobby as playing the game itself.

 

But hey if you're enjoying the CC mods and they've created less headaches for you, that's great. I'm grateful for the modders we have here on Nexus. They've created a lot of enjoyment for me through the years. For free.

That is good to hear that your RND worked fine. My RND however was not fine at all. I installed the original RND via Nexus Mod Manager or atleast I tried to but it did not work. The green mark when a mod is installed never appeared on my end, it was always grey as if I just downloaded it and did not work ingame for me. Then I installed RND2.0 wich works but not perfect. RND2.0 comes with UI icons that will show you if you are hungry, thirsty or tired. You should be able to toggle those Icons on and off in MCM, however the option where I should be able to toggle the Icons on and off is not there for me at all and I could not find a solution as of now.

 

I never said that it is hard to read the mod author page, I do that all the time but some discriptions are only 2 lines or less and not helpful at all. TES5Edit is another thing that annoys me because again it is another software I need to use. I need to have NMM, LOOT, TES5Edit and Wyrebash. 4 Pieces of software on my pc. On top of that I watched a video from Gopher, a mod auther on Nexus and he said that you should not use TES5Edit unless you are completly sure about that which I am not. He explained that I should not use it to clean every single mod because you never knew if a mod author made some stuff wich is claimed unclean on purpose or something like that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOQO2S6HDBw

 

That the process of modding a game is sometimes even more fun then to play the game itself for some people is great, unfortunatly I don't count myself among them.

 

 

Then you are one of the people who don't enjoy modding and one of the people that would be happy spending money on mods just for convenince. Nothing wrong with that though. However my opinion is that Creation Club is a pile of s*** only there to grab as much money as possible from people like you. I for example, really enjoy modding. I have over 500 mods on my Skyrim LE and it is more stable than Skyrim SE (I did a lot of testing.) For me there is nothing good with Creation Club. I don't support it at all but if you do then that's fine by me.

It is nice to see that you are able to use 500 mods on Skyrim LE and your game is stable. I use around 45 and my game is really unstable, when I play the game I always say in the back of my mind "please dont crash, please dont crash, please dont crash" all the time

Edited October 4, 2017 by DragonJarvis

[FrankFamily]

[...] Why do need people to ask mod authors for permission [...]

 

 

Because mod author's work is protected by copyright.

 

As for these numbers like "I have 500 mods" its all very relative, not all mods have the same impact, 1 mod can be a replacer of the textures of rats, zero impact, another can be frostfall or one of those war mods spawning a bunch of npcs. Big difference. People just like brag about their numbers. A stable modded game is about doing one's homework. If you just download mods like you are in a grocery store throwing stuff in the basket as you please, without any thought whatsoever regarding compatibility and the actual strength of your system, then it's likely the result will crash constantly. One, of course, can choose to skip the homework and stick to official content which should all be compatible and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

And btw vanilla (unmodded) skyrim is perfectly stable, it actually works fine and it's not as buggy as some people want to paint it.

Edited October 4, 2017 by FrankFamily

[DragonJarvis]

 

[...] Why do need people to ask mod authors for permission [...]

 

 

Because mod author's work is protected by copyright.

 

As for these numbers like "I have 500 mods" its all very relative, not all mods have the same impact, 1 mod can be a replacer of the textures of rats, zero impact, another can be frostfall or one of those war mods spawning a bunch of npcs. Big difference. People just like brag about their numbers. A stable modded game is about doing one's homework. If you just download mods like you are in a grocery store throwing stuff in the basket as you please, without any thought whatsoever regarding compatibility and the actual strength of your system, then it's likely the result will crash constantly. One, of course, can choose to skip the homework and stick to official content which should all be compatible and there's nothing wrong with that.

 

And btw vanilla (unmodded) skyrim is perfectly stable, it actually works fine and it's not as buggy as some people want to paint it.

 

I see, but then I have to ask why is it protected by copyright, if they make it public and upload it where they want so that anybody can get them for free? Wouldn't it be way more simple if for example a mod author uploads the mod to the nexus, that the decision to edit it by others belongs to nexus? I dont know how copyright exactly works so my Idea may be complete nonsense but wouldn't it solve more issues if people, instead of having to track down and ask a mod author for permission, that they simply have to ask nexus?

 

I imagine it like that: When a mod is on the nexus, someone who wants to edit, update and fix a certain mod, especially when the original Author has abandoned the mod, that those people who want to work on it, send a request to nexus, nexus grants automatically permission to the one who wants to update it and nexus can mark the mod automatically as "worked on by mod Author XY" with a big disclaimer on the mods frontpage. That would ensure that there are no seperate pages of the same mod like in my example RND and RND2.0

 

And if a Mod Author does really not want that a mod will be worked on by others so then make it that they can tick a box when they upload it that the mod will be excluded for requesting editing by other people.

 

But those are just some ideas I came up while brainstorming about nexus and how it may be improved.

 

Yeah that you cannot download mods left and right and be done with it and expect it to work is true, but exactly that is the Idea behind the CC to get rid exactly of this problem. I have to think to myself do I rather tip the mod authors behind RND,Frostfall (each author seperatly) etc because they did put alot of effort and love in their mods or do I rather spend 8$ for a similar mod on CC but then will be on the safer site that it works right out of the box?

 

Now that I think about it, tipping mod authors is another great reason to make fixed up to date mod packs on the nexus. When for Example a Survival pack would be relased on the nexus with mods Like Frostfall, Campfire, RND and Campfire, which is up to date, patched and works with perfect with NMM then I would rather giving money to the mod pack then buying that on CC because then I also know it will work and I know that my money would be distributed fairly between the mod authors of such pack.

[FrankFamily]

You pretty much answered yourself when you said you don't know how copyright works. If authors gave up their rights to serve the community then it would all be pretty easy but convenience of users is not above actual rights of authors.

In any case you are generalizing a very specific case of RND and RND 2.0 being in different pages, that's not the norm.

 

As said, each can do whatever they prefer, unstable modding, stable modding, cc or whatever, all perfect. Expecting others to give up their rights because it's more convenient for you while remaining free, not so perfect. Expecting others to put effort in the specific manner that is effortless for you, pretty imperfect. In any community in which multiple people are involved in different "roles" I think everyone should at least try to put themselves in the skin of others and not think only about oneself. Modders have been uploading free content for ages, some like to keep the rights over their work granted by law, others give it openly so others can use it in others mods or whatever, their decision. I think they deserve at least that, don't you?

 

As for buying mod packs, that would not be allowed, because mods are largely derivative works of the original game and Bethesda also has rights that we should also respect. You can't just sell mods. It's up to them to allow paid modding in the manner they choose.

Edited October 4, 2017 by FrankFamily