I prefer Creation Club over mods

[DragonJarvis]

Yes I mostly spoke of RND but I can give you another prime Example with Requiem. Requiem is a massive Overhaul of the entire game but requiem has even more different sites then RND.

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/searchresults/?src_order=1&src_sort=0&src_view=1&src_tab=1&src_name=requiem&src_language=0&src_showadult=1&page=1&pUp=1

There is the official Requiem, then there are several compability patch collection, then there are several single patches and so on. This is just confusing to me.

 

I was putting my self in different rolls all the time? I was speaking from the end user perspective and from the modders who want to improve mods or fix them but struggle to get permission from the original Mod Author, especially if a mod is abandoned by the orgiginal author.

 

You actually gave me a very good example:

 

 

As said, each can do whatever they prefer, unstable modding, stable modding, cc or whatever, all perfect. Expecting others to give up their rights because it's more convenient for you while remaining free, not so perfect. Expecting others to put effort in the specific manner that is effortless for you, pretty imperfect. In any community in which multiple people are involved in different "roles" I think everyone should at least try to put themselves in the skin of others and not think only about oneself. Modders have been uploading free content for ages, some like to keep the rights over their work granted by law, others give it openly so others can use it in others mods or whatever, their decision. I think they deserve at least that, don't you?

 

When you think critically about that, isnt that one of the main reasons why people are so upset about the CC? Especially where you said " some like to keep the rights over their work granted by law". For example when you talk about the rights, what right is that I can tip mod authors who made Hellfire Powerarmor for free, then Bethesda made the Hellfire Powerarmor in the first place and had to pay their employee who disigned this piece of gear and suddenly people complain that they want money for that? Wouldnt that be copyright infringement when I make something, which was not my original Idea and then I can accept money for it? Sure giving money is optional but it is still an option. Another thing would be survival mods. Why do mod Authors protect "their work" and claim copyright rights when a lot of features of their survival aspects originated from Fallout New Vegas Hardcore mode? Often when I download such mods the site prompts me If I want to tip the mod author.

 

 

You said I should think about different roles, which I did but isnt it also worth a shot to think about the employee from bethesda who tries to make a living? Or a Company who came up with Ideas for years just to see that fans temper with them and claim them sometimes their own? I think it is worth a shot to atleast try to think in their roles aswell. I think some people forget that bethesda is giving away their tools to make mods for their games for free.

 

 

As for buying mod packs, that would not be allowed, because mods are largely derivative works of the original game and Bethesda also has rights that we should also respect. You can't just sell mods. It's up to them to allow paid modding in the manner they choose.

 

I meant leaving some money for the Author, a tip, not buying the mod. Bear with me if I was not clear what I was trying to say. English is not my mother tongue.

Edited October 4, 2017 by DragonJarvis

[WastelandAssassin]

to answer some of your responses to my comment

 

for the case of "updated mods" like RND and RND 2.0 , these aren't an old and a new version of the same mod

these are two different mods , uploaded by different people , on different pages

if you want to see the latest mod , you can just sort by newest or last updated

so your point shows some basic misunderstanding with how mods work , and how they are shown on this site (it's fine , I know that this site could be complicated to use at times , so it's really not surprising you don't understand it all)

 

on your problems with mods , you are actually rather wrong

your problem with Beyond Skyrim : Bruma isn't actually with the mod . your problem was with the way the game was made , and the engine limitations attached to it . running out of memory is a problem of Skyrim , due to how it's engine works

this is a common problem with the game , and it has been since it's release

SE is trying to fix this problem , and I do hope it's better but I haven't tested it (due to not having the same mods to use)

 

I know that FrankFamily has answered some of these questions already , but I felt the need to drive my point

I hope you can now understand my stance better , and see how mods work here

[FrankFamily]

Yes I mostly spoke of RND but I can give you another prime Example with Requiem. Requiem is a massive Overhaul of the entire game but requiem has even more different sites then RND.

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/searchresults/?src_order=1&src_sort=0&src_view=1&src_tab=1&src_name=requiem&src_language=0&src_showadult=1&page=1&pUp=1

There is the official Requiem, then there are several compability patch collection, then there are several single patches and so on. This is just confusing to me.

 

I was putting my self in different rolls all the time? I was speaking from the end user perspective and from the modders who want to improve mods or fix them but struggle to get permission from the original Mod Author, especially if a mod is abandoned by the orgiginal author.

 

You actually gave me a very good example:

 

 

As said, each can do whatever they prefer, unstable modding, stable modding, cc or whatever, all perfect. Expecting others to give up their rights because it's more convenient for you while remaining free, not so perfect. Expecting others to put effort in the specific manner that is effortless for you, pretty imperfect. In any community in which multiple people are involved in different "roles" I think everyone should at least try to put themselves in the skin of others and not think only about oneself. Modders have been uploading free content for ages, some like to keep the rights over their work granted by law, others give it openly so others can use it in others mods or whatever, their decision. I think they deserve at least that, don't you?

 

When you think critically about that, isnt that one of the main reasons why people are so upset about the CC? Especially where you said " some like to keep the rights over their work granted by law". For example when you talk about the rights, what right is that I can tip mod authors who made Hellfire Powerarmor for free, then Bethesda made the Hellfire Powerarmor in the first place and had to pay their employee who disigned this piece of gear and suddenly people complain that they want money for that? Wouldnt that be copyright infringement when I make something, which was not my original Idea and then I can accept money for it? Sure giving money is optional but it is still an option. Another thing would be survival mods. Why do mod Authors protect "their work" and claim copyright rights when a lot of features of their survival aspects originated from Fallout New Vegas Hardcore mode? Often when I download such mods the site prompts me If I want to tip the mod author.

 

 

You said I should think about different roles, which I did but isnt it also worth a shot to think about the employee from bethesda who tries to make a living? Or a Company who came up with Ideas for years just to see that fans temper with them and claim them sometimes their own? I think it is worth a shot to atleast try to think in their roles aswell. I think some people forget that bethesda is giving away their tools to make mods for their games for free.

 

 

As for buying mod packs, that would not be allowed, because mods are largely derivative works of the original game and Bethesda also has rights that we should also respect. You can't just sell mods. It's up to them to allow paid modding in the manner they choose.

 

I meant living some money for the Author, not buying the mod.

 

Requiem is certainly not a grocery-style mod. Still, the vast mayority are ultra straightforward to install, hence why most authors don't even include instructions because it's simply drop it in your data folder, activate the esp (or not even that) and enjoy! When you combine tons of mods then s*** can happen and one should do some homework, think about compatibility, etc.

 

Now, copyright is a thing of creations, not ideas. The concept of survival is nothing new, the creation/development of such system within a game is protected by copyright and the rights to that are on the modder who made it, subject to the agreement with Bethesda. Modders are not breeching Bethesda's rights by making mods because Bethesda actually allows making mods and has even provided tools for such activity. With, of course, restrictions, such as "don't sell mods" or granting them a license to do stuff with mods if they so wish as explictely explained by the appropiate EULAs. So yes, accepting money for a mod is not allowed, the thing with donations is they are sort of to the person and not in exchange of the mod... a bit grey if you ask me, specially if you get into patreon. But Bethesda has allowed it so far.

 

I'm getting a vibe that you are putting me as if I was against Bethesda or CC, the opposite actually. Your ideas i'm opposing are those related to putting mod user convenience above mod author rights, like modders giving rights away so mod packs are easier, and every modder being able to pick other modder's work and improve it without inconvenient permissions getting in the way. Modding gets more complicated to the end user because authors have rights? Probably, life does, but I believe these rights to be far more important than a minor inconvenience. That's what i'm argueing.

 

edited for clarity.

Edited October 4, 2017 by FrankFamily

[DragonJarvis]

to answer some of your responses to my comment

 

for the case of "updated mods" like RND and RND 2.0 , these aren't an old and a new version of the same mod

these are two different mods , uploaded by different people , on different pages

if you want to see the latest mod , you can just sort by newest or last updated

so your point shows some basic misunderstanding with how mods work , and how they are shown on this site (it's fine , I know that this site could be complicated to use at times , so it's really not surprising you don't understand it all)

 

on your problems with mods , you are actually rather wrong

your problem with Beyond Skyrim : Bruma isn't actually with the mod . your problem was with the way the game was made , and the engine limitations attached to it . running out of memory is a problem of Skyrim , due to how it's engine works

this is a common problem with the game , and it has been since it's release

SE is trying to fix this problem , and I do hope it's better but I haven't tested it (due to not having the same mods to use)

 

I know that FrankFamily has answered some of these questions already , but I felt the need to drive my point

I hope you can now understand my stance better , and see how mods work here

Thank you. Yes, your comment helped my quite a bit to understand thinks a little better and I thank you for that.

In case of RND and RND2.0. I always thought that the Author of RND2.0 took the original RND and then made it better.

 

In case of Skyrim SE, my pc can not run the game so I will not say something about that but I just hope that mods on this version of skyrim will work better.

 

I just hope that there might be a solution to me for modding skyrim and enjoying my modded skyrim. I am starting to think two things, either modding is really not for me and I just should stick to Vanilla Skyrim or Nexus is not the right solution for me. I really like the work people do with modding the game and creating stuff but I have really trouble to get mods working properly for me and that is why I like the Idea (not the pricing) of the Creation Club.

 

Edit: @FrankFamily

 

About Requiem. That is true and all I can say is that I really tried to make my homework on that with reading their manual, searching for mods which are confirmed to work with Requiem and how to install them. And most of the mods worked, or worked for a long time in my playthrough.

 

About Copyright. Thank you for explaining this to me, as I said I have no real clue on how Copyright works so I was asking questions and that you explained the thing with donations to me. That is a really confusing topic to me and I should not get into that to much because I dont want to be the guy who just talks out of his a**hole.

 

No, If I was giving you the vibe that t I was putting you against Bethesda then I apologize, that was not my intention and sorry for that. Maybe my Ideas are just nonsense but I was trying to gave some Ideas who could benefit everyone and be a better to the end user, especially an unexperienced one, since I think what good is an outstanding mod when people like me struggle to use them. But maybe it is just me because even after 2 years of modding my games I still lack some fundamentally experience. Again I also thank you for explaining the stuff to me so that even I do understand it better.

 

Maybe modding is really just not for me and I have to accept that.

Edited October 4, 2017 by DragonJarvis

[Deleted30666895User]

Although NMM is end of line it is still pretty good till Vortex comes, and you can activate warnings if any Mod has been updated if you download from Nexus. Modding nowadays is a bit of a skill and fun, getting all the right patches and load orders etc is the name of the game. Many folks with loads of Mods love doing this work themselves, and getting it right, a big part of the fun, and many love the sense of achievement when it works. They can discuss with friends and fellow modders, yes, it is not easy--a kind of sub-game that many like to play. Smiles

[WastelandAssassin]

I just hope that there might be a solution to me for modding skyrim and enjoying my modded skyrim. I am starting to think two things, either modding is really not for me and I just should stick to Vanilla Skyrim or Nexus is not the right solution for me. I really like the work people do with modding the game and creating stuff but I have really trouble to get mods working properly for me and that is why I like the Idea (not the pricing) of the Creation Club.

 

 

for me , learning how to properly mod the game was part of the fun with these games

sure it could be quite disheartening , seeing how much time you may need to spend in order to do everything you need , just to be able to enjoy the game again

but considering how boring the original game is for me , and how much better it could be with mods , it's all well worth the time

 

now , learning to mod properly is a process , though there are some basic principles

the first is that usually mod authors give an amazing amount of information on their mod pages , so reading these would normally save you plenty of time (something I see people not doing all too often)

second , there are some really great tutorials around , that cover most if not all the information you need

I recommend the videos by Gopher on Youtube , and the S.T.E.P. project http://wiki.step-project.com/Main_Page

there are plenty of others , but these are quite great

 

another thing that might help you , is that plenty of people have uploaded their lists of must have mods for their games

these lists sometimes contain full installation instructions , and guides on how to make all the mods work

so it's almost like getting a full mod pack , with a bit of extra work on your end

In fact , many of the mods I used on one of my previous Skyrim playthrough were selected using one such list

so it's also something you can find , though it might not be that easy to find the right list for you

[DragonJarvis]

 

I just hope that there might be a solution to me for modding skyrim and enjoying my modded skyrim. I am starting to think two things, either modding is really not for me and I just should stick to Vanilla Skyrim or Nexus is not the right solution for me. I really like the work people do with modding the game and creating stuff but I have really trouble to get mods working properly for me and that is why I like the Idea (not the pricing) of the Creation Club.

 

 

for me , learning how to properly mod the game was part of the fun with these games

sure it could be quite disheartening , seeing how much time you may need to spend in order to do everything you need , just to be able to enjoy the game again

but considering how boring the original game is for me , and how much better it could be with mods , it's all well worth the time

 

now , learning to mod properly is a process , though there are some basic principles

the first is that usually mod authors give an amazing amount of information on their mod pages , so reading these would normally save you plenty of time (something I see people not doing all too often)

second , there are some really great tutorials around , that cover most if not all the information you need

I recommend the videos by Gopher on Youtube , and the S.T.E.P. project http://wiki.step-project.com/Main_Page

there are plenty of others , but these are quite great

 

another thing that might help you , is that plenty of people have uploaded their lists of must have mods for their games

these lists sometimes contain full installation instructions , and guides on how to make all the mods work

so it's almost like getting a full mod pack , with a bit of extra work on your end

In fact , many of the mods I used on one of my previous Skyrim playthrough were selected using one such list

so it's also something you can find , though it might not be that easy to find the right list for you

 

 

Yeah, I hear and read that alot that for most people modding the game might even equally as fun to them as play the game. It is nice to see that people have such hobbies and are deticated to modding their game. I unfortunatly do not belong to those people.

 

I often do watch gophers videos when it comes to tutorials and he does a very good job in explaining what I have to do and what might happen or might not.

 

So I just took a look at the S.T.E.P website and I have to admit I am really confused. There are like a million steps I need to do to get S.T.E.P running right? On top of that, I found this :https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/11/?tab=2&navtag=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nexusmods.com%2Fskyrim%2Fajax%2Fmodfiles%2F%3Fid%3D11&pUp=1

 

This is where my confusion starts. Do I need to download everything one by one like I understand it on the S.T.E.P website or can I use the pack which is on the nexus? STEP got me really courious now and I thank you for sharing the link with me. However if I see it as of now, I have to spend hours to get something like S.T.E.P running and even more hours to get it running properly. Because I really dont want to spend more time to get the mods running and reinstall skyrim for the 20th time

 

Where can I find those modlists?

[WastelandAssassin]

well , I've never actually used S.T.E.P. the mod

the site has some good tutorials on ini edits and such , that users may want to do , and other rather useful information

again , never actually used the mod . however , looking at the mod page , it seems like you do need to manually download most of the mods , but it seems like all the patches are already provided on this page , so you just have to install all the required mods in the appropriate order , and then the patches provided on that page

 

as for finding modlists , it's either through videos on Youtube , searching google , or in forums

I found the modlist I used through google , if I remember correctly

[DragonJarvis]

well , I've never actually used S.T.E.P. the mod

the site has some good tutorials on ini edits and such , that users may want to do , and other rather useful information

again , never actually used the mod . however , looking at the mod page , it seems like you do need to manually download most of the mods , but it seems like all the patches are already provided on this page , so you just have to install all the required mods in the appropriate order , and then the patches provided on that page

 

as for finding modlists , it's either through videos on Youtube , searching google , or in forums

I found the modlist I used through google , if I remember correctly

 

 

Thanks but here is what I will do now. I reinstall skyrim one last time, install skyui, skse usleep and maybe an font and call it a day. S.T.E.P is on a whole other level of complicated, what I see there comes very close to rocket science for me. When I see that people need to make not one but 56 tutorial videos on how to install something like S.T.E.P I am done. But thank you for your help.

 

EDIT: this is what I should be using I guess: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSuTv6lZCUU&list=PLl_Xou7GtCi6XoXe1TAJZfHHpoAhhYIVY moddrop seems to do exactly what I want.

Edited October 4, 2017 by DragonJarvis

[gnarly1]

S.T.E.P is on a whole other level of complicated, what I see there comes very close to rocket science for me.

Following clear and unambiguous instructions is at the other end of the complexity scale from rocket science. I've installed STEP twice now and both times the result is a good looking, stable game that never crashes. Many people use STEP as a base on which to build their ideal modding setup. Yes, it takes time, but most of that time is downloading and installing mods - things you have to do anyway. There are not 56 tutorial videos, in fact, IIRC, there is not a single video tutorial which you have to watch given STEP's written, step-by-step instructions are usually more than adequate.