CTD Issue Conundrum

[ShadowDW]

Preface: I sincerely apologize for the long post, but as you will (hopefully) read, it is all necessary info.

 

This may sound entirely weird and strange but, I have a very odd CTD issue, and I'm sure it has nothing to do with my mods, and everything to do with the Update and DLC .esm's.

 

So, my game was running great a week or so ago, and all of a sudden, I start getting these strange random CTD's, that I have figured out weren't random at all. I open up NMM and LOOT, and find out my load order got out of sort (I've no idea how, I added/updated recently but did not experience any issues with doing so ... will explain in further detail shortly) and LOOT is now telling me that the Update, Hearthfire, Dawnguard, amd Dragonborn .esm's are all dirty and need to be cleaned:

 

This is completely new, as when I did my additions/updates, these were perfectly fine. So I went opened up SSEEdit and cleaned them, and everything was going great, until I went to advance the Kyne quest at Froki's cabin and kept crashing every time I tried to fast travel there. So I went to Ivarstead instead, and tried to hoof it there, only to find out I kept CTD'ing at the same exact spot every time. Okay .. tried going to Treva's Watch and go from there ... nope, CTD in the same spot every time. Googled the issue, found out all I needed to do was verify my cache; did that and Steam had said 6 files failed to verify and replaced them. Awesome, problem solved ... or so I thought. Kept playing along and when I got back to Heljarchen Hall, the game kept CTD'ing on me in random spots inside the house (would do a couple of things, then CTD). So I pop back open NMM and LOOT, only to find that the same damn .esm's have the EXACT SAME dirty records as before I cleaned them. So I reopen SSEEdit to try and figure out WTF is going on, and came across these warnings:

 

 

First off, pertaining to my additions/updates ... I switched from UNP to CBBE, added Lightweight Scrolls and the Puzzle Pillar Retexture, and updated the Bodyslide mod. After doing these, which was about a month ago, I had zero issues, as the UNP to CBBE conversion went smoothly. These issues I am having recently, all started in the past week and I have done nothing new (aside from the previous). Having said that, I did run into one problem concerning the damn College of Winterhold quests, specifically The Staff of Magnus/The Eye of Magnus quests, where it would bork out and not want to advance the quest once returning to the College with the Staff of Magnus (I love doing Mage's Guild quests but this one ..... *sigh* this one gets on my nerves, and for many reasons aside from this nonsense). So after trying a few things, it just would not advance the quest, so I tried Googling some answers:

1) Uninstalling any mods pertaining to the College itself (aside from DLC), or anything altering College mechanics and/or scripts = DID NOT WORK

2) Uninstalling anything that may change clothing, abilities, physical changes (hair, eyes, so forth), etc. = DID NOT WORK

3) Uninstalling all mods and go vanilla = DID NOT WORK (although you can guess what happened when you uninstall 130+ mods on a save ...)

So, as mentioned, I completely borked my save ... but this is why one should have multiple saves with any one particular character, which I had 6 and used an extra 7th, figuring this might happen. So upon reinstalling everything, fixing my load order (again), and making everything as it was, I delete the borked up save, reload a previous and go back to the College. You can guess what happened then ... wow, look at that, it's working again! So I was able to complete the quest, after going through all of that for absolutely no reason, and move on. This was 2 weeks ago (or so).

 

All of this now leaves me with a bunch of questions and unable to figure out just Warren T. Funk (WTF) happened to my game. To start:

1) How did my load order get screwed up to begin with?

2) How did those DLC .esm's all of sudden become dirty?

A) Follow up: Why did cleaning them make a certain area of the map (are there more?) become inaccessible?

3) Why does verifying the game cache make the DLC .esm's dirty again?

4) How do I stop the endless loop I seem to be stuck in?

 

To summarize ... HELP! Anyone have any ideas on how to fix this issue?

 

 

If need be, my LOAD ORDER:

 

 

0 0 Skyrim.esm
1 1 Update.esm
2 2 Dawnguard.esm
3 3 HearthFires.esm
4 4 Dragonborn.esm
5 5 Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch.esp
6 6 ApachiiHair.esm
7 7 Campfire.esm
8 8 ClimatesOfTamriel.esm
9 9 ApachiiHairFemales.esm
10 a ApachiiHairMales.esm
11 b SMIM-SE-Merged-All.esp
12 c RLO - Interiors.esp
13 d ClimatesOfTamriel-Dungeons-Darker.esp
14 e SoundsofSkyrimComplete.esp
15 f ClimatesOfTamriel-WinterEditionSE.esp
16 10 RLO - Exteriors.esp
17 11 Skyrim Better Roads - The Rift.esp
18 12 Remove Interior Fog 2.0.esp
19 13 tcbm.esp
20 14 BetterQuestObjectives.esp
21 15 KS Hairdo's.esp
22 16 RUSTIC SOULGEMS - Sorted.esp
23 17 ClimatesOfTamriel-Interiors-Warm.esp
24 18 ClimatesOfTamriel-Nights-L2.esp
25 19 Thief skills rebalance for Ordinator.esp
26 1a Book of UUNP Iron And Steel.esp
27 1b Civil War Commander And Extended.esp
28 1c Man Those Borders!.esp
29 1d Ordinator - Perks of Skyrim.esp
30 1e Skyrim Better Roads - EastMarch.esp
31 1f DivinePeopleOfSkyrim.esp
32 20 AmazingFollowerTweaks.esp
33 21 Chesko_LoreBasedLoadingScreens.esp
34 22 IcePenguinWorldMap.esp
35 23 Footprints.esp
36 24 sandboxcylinderheight.esp
37 25 When Vampires Attack.esp
38 26 Realistic-Voice.esp
39 27 Runandwalkpaces.esp
40 28 Circlets and Masks with all Robes and Hoods.esp
41 29 TrueStormsSE.esp
42 2a LeftHandRings.esp
43 2b LeftHandRings-1stPersonView.esp
44 2c Dr_Bandolier.esp
45 2d EMHearthfireMoveKidsfix.esp
46 2e dD-No Spinning Death Animation Merged.esp
47 2f Better Harvesting (animal loot version).esp
48 30 RLO - Effects.esp
49 31 RLO - Illuminated Spells.esp
50 32 SoS_CoT_Patch.esp
51 33 SoS_TrueStorms_Patch.esp
52 34 The_Companion_Sisters.esp
53 35 LZA Silt Strider Merchant Protected SSE.esp
54 36 Hothtrooper44_ArmorCompilation.esp
55 37 SimplyBiggerTreesSE.esp
56 38 RichMerchantsSkyrim_x2.esp
57 39 Civil War Uniform.esp
58 3a SGEyebrows.esp
59 3b Hothtrooper44_Armor_Ecksstra.esp
60 3c Skysan_GlassAW.esp
61 3d Skysan_Stalhrim.esp
62 3e Lightweight Scrolls.esp
63 3f Skyrim Sizes.esp
64 40 SPTDiverseGuardsSkyrimSE.esp
65 41 Better Dressed NPCs2.esp
66 42 EMCompViljaSkyrim.esp
67 43 JKs Whiterun.esp
68 44 TKAA.esp
69 45 Remove Interior Fog - RLO Patch 2.0.esp
70 46 JK's Riverwood.esp
71 47 Skyrim Better Roads and Bridges - All In One - Merged.esp
72 48 Run For Your Lives.esp
73 49 Cloaks.esp
74 4a Inigo.esp
75 4b SOS_RLOInteriors_Patch.esp
76 4c Skyrim Better Roads - Winterhold.esp
77 4d Hunterborn.esp
78 4e Shor's Stone.esp
79 4f Frostfall.esp
80 50 Ivarstead.esp
81 51 Helarchen Creek.esp
82 52 Book Covers Skyrim - Lost Library.esp
83 53 Kynesgrove.esp
84 54 Skyrim Flora Overhaul.esp
85 55 Soljund's Sinkhole.esp
86 56 Karthwasten.esp
87 57 Civil War Ambushes.esp
88 58 College Guards SE JMR.esp
89 59 The Paarthurnax Dilemma.esp
90 5a BetterQuestObjectives-PaarDilemmaPatch.esp
91 5b Lovely Lydia.esp
92 5c Cloaks - Dawnguard.esp
93 5d Cloaks - USSEP Patch.esp
94 5e EMViljaInSolstheimAddOn.esp
95 5f Hunterborn - Soups and Stews.esp
Hunterborn - iNeed Patch.esp
96 60 Hunterborn - Campfire Patch.esp
97 61 The Ordinary Women.esp
98 62 RW_Femme.esp
99 63 Dark_Brotherhood_V2.esp
100 64 Pretty Ysolda.esp
101 65 Populated Skyrim Prisons Cells.esp
102 66 Civil War Quartermasters.esp
103 67 Better Hold Guards.esp
104 68 WetandCold.esp
105 69 Book of UUNP - Textures.esp
106 6a XPMSSE.esp
107 6b FNIS.esp
108 6c ajd_morewoodelves_sse_pc.esp
109 6d ajd_moreredguards_sse_pc.esp
110 6e HoldBorderBanners.esp
111 6f ajd_morekhajiit_sse_pc.esp
112 70 ajd_moredarkelves_sse_pc.esp
113 71 ajd_moreorcs_sse_pc.esp
114 72 ajd_morehighelves_sse_pc.esp
115 73 ajd_moreargonians_sse_pc.esp
116 74 JMR Riverwood Guards - JK Compliant.esp
117 75 WhiterunStableGuards.esp
118 76 Apocalypse - Magic of Skyrim.esp
119 77 ApachiiHelmetWigs.esp
120 78 Apocalypse - Ordinator Compatibility Patch.esp
121 79 WeaponsOf3E_SSE.esp
122 7a Open Cities Skyrim.esp
123 7b Immersive Citizens - AI Overhaul.esp
124 7c Immersive Citizens - OCS patch.esp
125 7d Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp
126 7e Relationship Dialogue Overhaul.esp
127 7f RDO - AFT v1.66 Patch.esp
128 80 BetterQuestObjectives-AlternateStartPatch.esp
129 81 Darkwater Crossing.esp
130 82 Whistling Mine.esp
131 83 RealisticWaterTwo.esp
132 84 RealisticWaterTwo - iNeed.esp
133 85 RealisticWaterTwo - Watercolor.esp
134 86 SoS_ImmersiveCitizens_Patch.esp
135 87 RLO - IC Patch.esp

 

[Raider5]

here is what worked for me, disable "Unofficial Skyrim patch" . after days of constant five to ten second CTD's with the occasional tease of being able to run fifty or sixty steps I have now played several hours with out a single CTD, slow down or gremlin. Though I was attacked by a pack of skeevers while riding a horse. hope it works for you.

[ShadowDW]

here is what worked for me, disable "Unofficial Skyrim patch" ....

 

If you are referring to the "Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch," that just isn't possible. I have more than 130 mods installed, and most of them require that I use the USSEP. This "fix" would break my game altogether, and would force me to start my SSE from scratch (which would take 2 or 3 days to do); this is not something I do not want to do. Oldrim had me so frustrated that I almost gave up the game altogether, because I want to use these mods as in my mind, Oldrim was missing so much that mods reinstalled in the game and made it more pleasurable to play. Long story short, SSE gave me a chance to start from scratch and create something more stable ... and it was, up until a week ago when the mysterious, aforementioned, "gremlins" happened.

 

Thank you for the response though. Hopefully someone, somewhere may have a solution to this bizarre loop.

Edited October 29, 2017 by ShadowDW

[Raider5]

your welcome. Artmoor suggested that I download directly from the AFK site and install manually. Based on the description of my problem he thinks it could be a nexus API issue. So I am giving it a shot to see if that fixes it.

[spookymunky]

Hmm, if steam updated skyrim for you then those files would have been replaced, and that is why the dirty edits came back. When you cleaned the files again then asked steam to verify it will have noticed those files had been altered so replaced them again hehe. It could be playing with those dirty edits since the update has broken something in your save, possibly, so going back to an old save where the files are clean again could work... I guess more likely something in the update has broken something in another mod (like the unofficial patch).

 

I disabled auto updates as soon as I heard even the slightest hint of a new update being added (purely to add something I will never use) through fear that something like this might happen :sad: ... Thankfully MO only needs steam to be running, so I haven't been forced into updating just to play. I really hate Steam's update policy with a passion for games that can be modded, makes no sense.

[ShadowDW]

@spookymunky: That's interesting, but I don't recall SSE ever updating? I will have to look into that.

If this is indeed the case, then I am royally f----d because I use all 6 of my saves; I alternate between every 2 quests, usually 2 at a time so I always have somewhere to back track. E.g., I'll do 2 (sometimes 3 or 4, if the quests are short and easy) quests and alternate between saves, depending on if the outcome hasn't become borked in some way. I guess I need to use 7 all day, using one as a primary master save, if what you have said is the case.

 

This is starting to become a very bad day .... Level 57 character about to be flushed down the toilet. :/

[ShadowDW]

@spookymunky: .... I will have to look into that.

 

Ok, after looking for a bit, I'm fairly certain that SSE has never been updated. I looked into the update news, and there is none for SSE. So I'm left to believe that this cannot be the cause, if there hasn't been any update to the game. I don't think a Steam update would have any effect on any certain game because they tend to stick to their own software.

 

In any case, thanks for the reply. All things considered, we can remove one more possibility from the list lol.

[spookymunky]

I meant when they added the Creation Club in an update ? I honestly cannot play SSE through steam right now without updating it and running the risk of destroying my character (just says blah...Skyrim Special Edition - Update Required), so it did come out as an update that everyone should have had installed whether they wanted it or not. If your character is newer than when CC was added, then yeah, just ignore my thoughts :smile:

 

Though they might still have some import if they did manage to break something for modding (as bethesda usually does, no matter how simple the update hehe) if some of the mods you are using haven't been updated since then to compensate. It's why I'm not even remotely willing to take the risk, and disabled auto updates as soon as I heard it was coming.

 

Edit: ... but then if your master files were still clean while you were adding new mods etc to your save, then I am at a loss to otherwise explain how they ended up dirty again without an update? It's the only thing that makes sense in my mind. The only way they can revert to being the way they were before you cleaned them is for them to have been replaced with the original files, like steam did when you used their validate files / verify cache / whatever they are calling it feature, and like steam loves to do when updating games... I think they basically just check per user which files are different from the new version of the game that they have, then replaces them all so we all have the exact same game and anything modified by yourself goes out the window.

 

It's not just Bethesda btw, it's pretty much the same for every game that has a modding community on steam; if the game gets a forced update and you have a lot of scripted mods then you can usually kiss your save file goodbye... the joys of DRM.

Edited October 30, 2017 by spookymunky

[spookymunky]

It's maybe not all doom and gloom though... I don't see why steam would care if you were to say find an old backup that you made of your special edition folder and replaced most of the files in your steam folder with that ? :pirate: ... until the next update hehe. Just a shame you are doing a weird save thing since it might not help in the slightest, and could possibly make things worse :sad:

 

Generally I just make new saves all the time and move them to backup hdds, or go through them every now and then and delete say 20-50 at a time, but leaving 1 in between hehe, have lost far too many characters to broken saves over the years !

[Raider5]

It's maybe not all doom and gloom though... I don't see why steam would care if you were to say find an old backup that you made of your special edition folder and replaced most of the files in your steam folder with that ? :pirate: ... until the next update hehe. Just a shame you are doing a weird save thing since it might not help in the slightest, and could possibly make things worse :sad:

 

Generally I just make new saves all the time and move them to backup hdds, or go through them every now and then and delete say 20-50 at a time, but leaving 1 in between hehe, have lost far too many characters to broken saves over the years !

spooky is correct, when I first downloaded skyrim, i made a copy of the entire folder on a external drive. the few times I've had problems that would have required downloading the whole game again I just changed the name of the steam skyrim folder to say sky1 then copied over the clean sky folder into steam. copying individual files, or a clean data folder or any other file or mod works just as easily.

 

note: I rename the original to save updates, mods, textures and what have or just in case I find a solution to the problem I was having and can just play the rename game between the two folders to switch back and forth.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Raider5