Vortex needs to NOT install mods to Data folder, period.

[SirTwist]

This issue was one reason I stopped, in early days, using Fallout Mod Manager, and even early NMM stuff. I was looking, at the time, for some way to manage my mods without them going directly into my data folder of the game I am modding, and causing issues that I would have to reinstall the game time and time again, just to try to have the game work decently, for a while. I discovered this wonderful, beautiful, program called Mod Organizer. I love this thing. It does what I need it to, and leaves my Data folder alone, and pristine as the day I bought the game. Well, aside from me cleaning the DLC's stuff because that's what Loot wants me to do. Now I get Fallout 4, and nothing to use with it. I wait, and wait, and wait. Here comes Mod Organizer 2, not perfect, but does the job. Then, the development stops, on possibly the worst version of it. Well, I look around, find out someone else has taken up the reigns, and now, I use that, as well. To me, the idea of installing anything but what is absolutely critical to running the game, to my data folder, is no longer an option for me. And Vortex was supposed to have that, in spades. However, It is not the successor to Mod Organizer/MO2, but rather a reversion to the bad old days where you didn't have a choice where to install your mods. Unless Vortex is fixed, before actual release to NOT install to C:\Program Files (x86) AND not install anything to my Data folder I do NOT want in there, I will NOT use this useless piece of garbage. This is possibly the worst thing to have happen to a mod manager ever.

[HardwareSc8]

Not that it's going to matter, or convince anyone, but it's NOT actually putting anything in the Data folder that Steam didn't put there, or the user manually - it just LOOKS like it is.

 

As a test to determine how deployment functioned, I made a small edit to a texture file that I knew was going to be overwritten in the Data folder, to see if it would be reverted after undeploying the overwriting mod. In actuality, the edit was made to the file in the Vortex mod folder. Although in file explorer it looks like the file is in the Data folder, you're actually accessing the file in the mod folder.

 

If that makes any more sense...

 

EDIT: Just thought of a better way to characterize it:

 

Essentially, with mods deployed, when you open a file explorer to the Data folder, you're not actually seeing the Data folder, you're seeing MO's vfs.

Edited February 1, 2018 by HardwareSc8

[ousnius]

Not that it's going to matter, or convince anyone, but it's NOT actually putting anything in the Data folder that Steam didn't put there, or the user manually - it just LOOKS like it is.

 

As a test to determine how deployment functioned, I made a small edit to a texture file that I knew was going to be overwritten in the Data folder, to see if it would be reverted after undeploying the overwriting mod. In actuality, the edit was made to the file in the Vortex mod folder. Although in file explorer it looks like the file is in the Data folder, you're actually accessing the file in the mod folder.

 

If that makes any more sense...

 

EDIT: Just thought of a better way to characterize it:

 

Essentially, with mods deployed, when you open a file explorer to the Data folder, you're not actually seeing the Data folder, you're seeing MO's vfs.

 

There's an exception for that with certain tools like xEdit or Photoshop, because they actually rename files back and forth instead of straight up replacing the old file you're saving over, which breaks up the hard link.

However, Vortex will see this and merge it back into its own folder or ask to do so.

[sr383]

Nexus/Tannin have been clear that Vortex would use the data folder and that returning to a virtual file system would not happen anytime soon, if at all.

[HardwareSc8]

My statement about the vfs was an analogy; it was not meant to imply that such a system is, or will be, in use. Sorry, I guess I wasn't very clear about that, was I...?

[SirTwist]

Using a vfs is tantamount to the success of Mod Organizer, and MO 2. Without that, there is no need to go with something that may support more games, but make a mess of everything. I had reinstalled, quite a number of times, KOTOR, TSL, and a few other games, because there wasn't the current NMM or MO/2. I could care less about the interface, amount of games, what have you, if it had a vfs in place. Without that, I just won't use it. It's a simple choice, really. Placing a vfs can help everyone. Just make it similar to MO2's, and you can be good to go.

[Qwinn]

Some people like MO2 better, some people like NMM better. I don't think this is meant to replace MO2, it's meant to replace NMM. Which I think it does well (once Individual File Overwrites is implemented, anyway). The 3 main advantages of Vortex over NMM as advertised by Tannin are:

 

1) Mods will take about half the room on the hard drive that NMM does, not counting the downloaded archives.

2) Considerably faster enabling/disabling of mods.

3) Less error prone due to eliminating the need for manifests, and a Purge option in the event of disaster that should reset things correctly without having to restart from scratch.

 

So far, those seem to be working properly (though I haven't had to Purge yet!).

 

Me, personally, I love MO2, but I can't currently use it because it can't currently run two proxy libraries to enable both an ENB and 3D Vision (MO2 guys are looking into it). But of course, I'm part of the 0.01% of the population that uses 3D Vision (SO insanely underrated, I will never understand that), so the vast majority of folks aren't going to be deterred from MO2 by that. I, for one, am quite happy that there will remain an alternative, and given that NMM crashes have completely trashed my entire installation at least once, requiring a wipe and restart, I'm quite happy to have a promising alternative to it with some real advantages.

[sr383]

I don't think this is meant to replace MO2, it's meant to replace NMM.

 

If that's the case, then I downloaded by mistake. ;-) MO2 can be crash-prone, but it's still a powerful modding tool for SSE and Fallout 4.

[Qwinn]

Yeah - if MO2 could do everything I need, I would be using it. And if that proxy library issue ever gets fixed, and it's otherwise reasonably stable (which the last version seems to mostly be), I'd be greatly inclined to go back to it. In the meantime - very happy that something superior to NMM is being developed, and willing to lend a hand in testing and hopefully making good suggestions.

Edited February 2, 2018 by Qwinn

[SirTwist]

Qwinn, you are a rarity. However, for me, when I was first modding games, I would eventually stop playing them. Reason being they got too old too fast, and not able to mod the game like I would like. With Mod Organizer, and MO2, I can mod to my heart's content, and play with several different mods, for different play throughs, and enjoy the game. I have, thanks to Gopher, Enderal for Skyrim, and it is amazing. I am only part way through the story, and it's gorgeous. I switch profiles in MO, and I can play as either one character, or another. I figured I would try to use Vortex, since it was made by Tannin. Much to my chagrin, it didn't support one game I was hoping to play, again. Nor another I had installed, so I can try some stuff out with that. So, I made a copy of Fallout 3 to try. And I did try to add mods from MO install to Vortex, and it threw nothing but mod conflicts at me. And installed everything to the Data folder. I was not having that. I had issues in the past with playing Oblivion and Fallout 3 that way before. It was frustrating trying to play, and the game CTD after a couple seconds or a few minutes. So, I left them by the wayside for a while. Picked them back up when I was searching for installation of mods for New Vegas, and found Cal of Dirty Weasel Media's series on Fallout New Vegas Mod Organizer. And also Gopher's series on MO. After that, it became a no brainer. Now I am looking at more in depth videos, and even stuff on how to make mods, etc. I might not be sharing some, because of some things, but I have learned a few things, thanks to reading, and videos. I am not, yet, ready, to do some things, but I am ready to try a couple things. To see if they work. If they do, then good. If not, back to the drawing board. If I had stuck with something that didn't work, who knows what I might be doing now. Certainly not playing Bethesda games.