HadToRegister Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 The author of AWKCR may have trouble using his own mod in Vortex, but I don't. In Fallout 4 I'm currently using AWKCR v8.51 along with 213 other mods. Everything is running just fine. The author has his own guide to how your load order should be laid out EXACTLY, which does NOT work with Vortex, and only works with NMM, because NM ignores all of the conflicts etc, because I tried that guide, using Vortex, and I ended up with a bird's nest of cyclic rules.So, that's why he steers people away, because his 'perfect load order' guide doesn't work in Vortex because it completely ignores proper sorting rules, and everything else Vortex tries to do. Conflicts and Cyclic Rules be Damned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NummusVersari Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 OK, thanks everyone. Just trying to get my feet under me after being away from things for so long. Not trying to rock the boat for anyone on any side of the mod organizer fence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HadToRegister Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 OK, thanks everyone. Just trying to get my feet under me after being away from things for so long. Not trying to rock the boat for anyone on any side of the mod organizer fence. One last suggestion, if you want to TRY Vortex, I suggest you try it on an unmodded game and slowly ease into it with just a handful of mods, and get accusmtomed to it, if you find after using for a couple of weeks that it's not your cup of tea, then use whichever Mod Manager you're most comfortable with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpitner Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 I have read over a lot of the comments here concerning Load Order and how well Vortex handles it. I strongly disagree that rules work and that load order can be controlled in Vortex. I say this because I have had issues where Vortex decided my rules were wrong and decided to change my load order for me, breaking mods. The example I am about to give is the reason I went back to NMM. It involves 2 mods and a patch; Hangman's Alley Interior Apartments, Hangmans Alley Optimized, and the patch Hangmans Alley Optimized - HAIA. What worked in NMM was HAIA loaded first, then Hangmans Alley Optimized then the patch. Worked like a dream. So in Vortex I set the rules for Optimize to load after HAIA and the patch to load after the other two. Worked at first but then a couple days later I noticed that the build area was no longer the size it was before. Checked Vortex and the rules were still present. Looked at my AppData Fallout 4 folder and found that Vortex had changed my loadorder.txt to load Optimize first then HAIA second and the patch last. I closed down Vortex, manually edited my loadorder.txt to reflect the correct load order and went on to a working game. A few days later I opened Vortex to add a mod I was working on and testing. I went on to playing when Hangman's alley was under attack, after all was done I noticed the build area had shrunk again to the size predetermined in HAIA, looked at my loadorder.txt and again the mods were out of order. So I tested it, changed the loadorder.txt to the correct order, opened Vortex, closed Vortex, and looked at the loadorder.txt again to find that once again Vortex changed it to reflect the incorrect order. The only solution to have a smooth running game was to remove Vortex and use NMM and I have had no issues since. Bottom line here is manual load order manipulation is required at times. I really liked Vortex but if I have to constantly open up and edit my loadorder.txt file then why do I need it? Just my thought on the matter now that it seems that it is use Vortex or a slightly disable NMM. Maybe I will be lucky and someone will create an Unofficial Vortex Patch to fix the bugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HadToRegister Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 I have read over a lot of the comments here concerning Load Order and how well Vortex handles it. I strongly disagree that rules work and that load order can be controlled in Vortex. I say this because I have had issues where Vortex decided my rules were wrong and decided to change my load order for me, breaking mods. The example I am about to give is the reason I went back to NMM. It involves 2 mods and a patch; Hangman's Alley Interior Apartments, Hangmans Alley Optimized, and the patch Hangmans Alley Optimized - HAIA. What worked in NMM was HAIA loaded first, then Hangmans Alley Optimized then the patch. Worked like a dream. So in Vortex I set the rules for Optimize to load after HAIA and the patch to load after the other two. Worked at first but then a couple days later I noticed that the build area was no longer the size it was before. Checked Vortex and the rules were still present. Looked at my AppData Fallout 4 folder and found that Vortex had changed my loadorder.txt to load Optimize first then HAIA second and the patch last. I closed down Vortex, manually edited my loadorder.txt to reflect the correct load order and went on to a working game. A few days later I opened Vortex to add a mod I was working on and testing. I went on to playing when Hangman's alley was under attack, after all was done I noticed the build area had shrunk again to the size predetermined in HAIA, looked at my loadorder.txt and again the mods were out of order. So I tested it, changed the loadorder.txt to the correct order, opened Vortex, closed Vortex, and looked at the loadorder.txt again to find that once again Vortex changed it to reflect the incorrect order. The only solution to have a smooth running game was to remove Vortex and use NMM and I have had no issues since. Bottom line here is manual load order manipulation is required at times. I really liked Vortex but if I have to constantly open up and edit my loadorder.txt file then why do I need it? Just my thought on the matter now that it seems that it is use Vortex or a slightly disable NMM. Maybe I will be lucky and someone will create an Unofficial Vortex Patch to fix the bugs. So, you don't like Vortex, yet here you were, manually editing your plugins.txt and going against everything Vortex does.You're not using the tool correctly, and you're complaining about it. Vortex doesn't just change your plugins text because it feels like it.So far, everybody who has reported a bad experience with Vortex has been the cause of their bad experience with Vortex. You're complaining about Vortex, yet you say you're doing something that would confuse any mod manager by hand editing your plugins txt (Which btw, caused people to lose their entire load orders with NMM)Instead of using Vortex's Rules and Groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpitner Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 You missed the point, by a long shot. First, I like Vortex but it does me no good if it can't correctly manage my load order or let me do it. I may not be an expert but I am far from a novice. I played around a lot with Vortex because it's concept is a good one. I used MO for SkyrimLE for the same reasons I tried Vortex. So explain to me, if you want your mods to work correctly and load in the correct order, and Vortex will not do it or allow you to manual control your load order, then what choices do you have. Guess I could have removed the rules and set global priority for the mods but doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose? The reason I had to edit the loadorder.txt was because Vortex kept changing it to the wrong load order. It is Vortex's issue of not following rules set that caused me to edit my loadorder.txt, meaning Vortex was already confused. Sorry, but I like the mods to work when I install them and I am intelligent enough to know when there are conflicts or load order issues. And yes, Vortex does change your load order, that is one of it's selling points - built in LOOT, and if you have the automatic sort function selected, it appears that sorting is done every time Vortex is started. To me that is one of it's strongest and desirable features, if it would follow the rules set for the different mods to actually work. Yes, I do know how to set rules for mods. My post was only to enforce the opinion that some form of manual manipulation of the load order is needed. I even gave an example so this could be verified, which is a lot more than I get with bug reports on my mods. Don't assume that I dislike Vortex, to me Vortex is a step above Mod Organizer and I loved MO for SkyrimLE. You can, however, assume that I dislike the lack of manual load order sorting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AugustaCalidia Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 @jpitner When you created load order rules for the three Hangman's Alley mods, did you do so by assigning them to LOOT groups or by creating "load before" and "load after" rules, or both? By the way, LOOT has replaced global priorities with groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpitner Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 I created them by "load after" rules. I am just hoping I am missing something here because I actually liked Vortex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AugustaCalidia Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 I created them by "load after" rules. I am just hoping I am missing something here because I actually liked Vortex. Try group assignments instead and see if you get better results. That has worked well for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HadToRegister Posted April 16, 2019 Share Posted April 16, 2019 I created them by "load after" rules. I am just hoping I am missing something here because I actually liked Vortex. Group assignment, as Augusta said, If that works, leave it alone, if it gets you halfway there, then try the Load Before/Load After within the group. I have never had Vortex change the load order on me unless I told it to. You can also, in a last desperate attempt, "Lock the three mods to Index." Put them in the order you want in Vortex, then double click on the PLUGIN, to open a pop out window on the Right, and look towards the bottom, and you'll find a "LOCKED TO INDEX" option under the "LOCK MOD INDEX" section The other thing could be that Vortex keeps rearranging them because one of the mods is a master of the other and you're putting them in the wrong order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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