Help about scripts and load order

[Swampfox92]

I just need some clarification for how scripts and load order are related, because I'm not sure I understand how this stuff behaves in game. I hope I don't have this completely wrong lol.

 

Say I have a savegame that has currently running scripts from a mod and that script references forms within that mod. If the load order position of that mod changes, and I load up my savegame, that script will no longer be able to reference the correct forms, right?

 

If I understand that correctly, how does an automatically sorted load order prevent the above from happening when you are say, adding new mods that conflict with mods in your load order? Does LOOT/Vortex know to keep mods that are running scripts in the same position?

 

 

[HardwareSc8]

My understanding of it is that scripts are dynamic when it comes to load order; at least, I've never had any issues with scripts not being able to find FormIDs because of a load-order change. And that included the Dragonborn Gallery, which is very script-heavy and relies on a lot of FormIDs. LOOT changed its load position at one point, and nothing broke.

[HalfLazy]

It's "fairly safe" mess around with the load order... The form are registered as "0123456" but they're used like "(Fallout4.esm)23456", because there's a reference table about Name -> Index for conversions.

 

s#*! happend when Disable or Disable/re-enable mods Because unused scripts float around, using space for nothing (with Skyrim even still running if "bad scripted")

 

General Rule:

Avoid disable/uninstall things except if you really need to

Use the uninstall procedure suggested by the Mod author

Use a SaveGame cleaner to removed the unused element

 

 

Said so: s#*! happend and things could get messy because there's always a little chance that somethings become wierd (a bug, an error, something)

 

As example:

if you must carry 1 glass, you pick the glass and move it

if you must carry 10 glasses probably you could carry those without problem

if you shoul carry 10000 glasses there's a change that 1 o 2 fall and broke

 

____

 

 

Keep a load order 'Correctly' isn't about "missing forms", it's about how priority works, The last loaded get priority above those before and overwrite them (this is why Fallout4.esm is the first, if it was the last you'll play the base game)

For example:

You have two mods that modify Pipers appareance, Let's say ModA (Piper's Hair Blue) and ModB (Piper's Hair Black)

 

LoadOrder:

00 Fallout4.esm

01 ModA.esp

02 ModB.esp

 

The game does this:

Piper's Hair From Fallout.esm (Vanilla) -> Piper's Hair From ModA (They become blue) -> Piper's Hair From ModB (black)

Then in game you have Piper with Black Hair

 

 

IF Load order is:

00 Fallout4.esm

01 ModB.esp

02 ModA.esp

 

Piper will have Blue hairs

[HardwareSc8]

The only caveat that I would add to that is that save-game script cleaners are not the be-all-end-all they're made out to be. Saves can still break due to missing scripts even after they're cleaned. The only guaranteed way to be safe is to not uninstall mods that use scripts mid-playthrough. That's why a lot of the authors of script-heavy mods say to back up your save files before installing the mod.

[HalfLazy]

Hm.. yes, you're right, Actually It's safe only on Skyrim (the standard, I don't know about SE)

 

Fallout 4 requires a bit of attention because there are some Script that get recognized as invalid but they're not

Simply instead to remove all, get a list of the script installed (look at the archivie: .../Data/Script) by the mod and remove they one by one (most of the time they have a common prefix, so it's easier than seems)

[Swampfox92]

Thanks for the clarification. I very much understand priority, and am well versed in xedit to resolve all my conflicts. I'm not really sure then why it seems to be commonly said to not move around your load order mid playthrough if it is pretty much harmless. I guess I don't have anything to worry about then.

 

In any case, I'll be avoiding Vortex until virtual asset priority is implemented like MO's left pane.

[HellKnightX88]

Vortex already has loading/overwrite priority for assets. If 2 mods conflict due to file overwrites vortex will tell you and you can pick the order in which you want to load/overwrite the assets. AFAIK you just can't do it ona per asset basis.

[HalfLazy]

It's commonly said to not change a load order for the example of the Glasses above:

if you carry 1 glass, you pick the glass and move it

if you carry 10 glasses probably you could carry those without problem

if you carry 10000 glasses there's a chance that 1 o 2 fall and broke

 

"Because s#*! happend"

 

Note that both Skyrim and Fallout are commonly known to get bugged even without Mods and bethesda dosen't fix anything the 95%

(If you remember Skyrim's HD texture bug, or the last 10 Updates to Fallout 4 all related to the CC)

 

So avoid to change load order it's like not poking the sleeping beast.

 

 

p.s. You can use Vortex without problem, so far I found it really good at it's job...

[HardwareSc8]

Vortex already has loading/overwrite priority for assets. If 2 mods conflict due to file overwrites vortex will tell you and you can pick the order in which you want to load/overwrite the assets. AFAIK you just can't do it ona per asset basis.

 

You can't...yet. Per-file is coming, it just hasn't been implemented yet.

[sopmac45]

Vortex already has loading/overwrite priority for assets. If 2 mods conflict due to file overwrites vortex will tell you and you can pick the order in which you want to load/overwrite the assets. AFAIK you just can't do it ona per asset basis.

 

Yes, you are right and I saw a video in YouTube about Vortex already but my question, how would I know ( let' say that I have 8 mods conflicting with each other ) which one should go last, first and in the middle ? I have no idea. Ok, Vortex will tell me ? Will tell me : hey, move this one after this one, let this 3 in the order they are and move those 3 to the top in this order ... bla, bla, bla .... it is complicated, at least for me and I am very sure, for the majority because not everybody knows how to deal with dependencies/priorities/patches and load orders.

 

Do you have any tips about my question ? I would appreciate it ! Thanks ... :)

Edited February 8, 2018 by sopmac45