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Current ver. NMM missing a vital tool it seems


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#1
DaughertyUSMC

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I watched a few vids by Gopher instructing use and placement of mods, load orders, and the like - I am brand new to modding a game, and yet, as any good Marine does, I went  gungho with the mods,  grabbing like 160 of 'em from both here, and Beth.net - everything I felt would create a great game for me. 

 

Thus, I have more mods than confidence in manually doing the LO's due to lack of any knowledge comparatively to those who have done this a lot.

 

In one of Gopher's vids, where he demonstrated LO placement method, he covered LOOT, as well NMM. It was there that I watched him use an automatic LO tool from the left hand tool drop-down. This tool is missing from my NMM, and I would like to seriously know why the heck that is? As in who's brain fart was it to remove it? It is obvious that it has been removed, probably when they developed another version back in whenever, but that's just a guess.

 

Beth.net may have their issues, but the load ordering there is simple and easy as hell - no dealing with, or needing to understand the placing of a lot of files into directories/folders a lay-person may not even make sense of. It's kinda like EVERYONE can use Windows - it's designed for ease of use, as opposed to old DOSS systems when a user had to understand command line parameters, pathways, and basic coding.  NMM is "DOSS", to me, whereas Beth.net is "Windows" by comparison in my own limited experience, and this is just an observation, and subjective, of course. However I only like them for two things:

 

Ease of use

Several favored Mod-makers who upload there, and provide several Mods I will not do without, and which are not found here.

 

As a result of my having to separate mod sources, LOOT is useless to me in terms of LO's. If I use it, it totally wreaks havoc on my Beth.net LO that I carefully built, and yet will not show any of the 69 mods I installed to NMM from here. I simply do not know enough about it, to determine if there is a method I missed to get LOOT to recognize my NMM mods, and I won't screw around with it to find out due to it's changing my LO on Beth.net every time I open it. I spend 15 minutes playing FO4 for every 2 hours I spend correcting LO's after game crashes, and I am a bit weary of this by now.

 

So, that Automatic Plugin Ordering tool that USED to be on NMM would have been nice to have about now. It would have helped me a lot.

 

As of now I have a bunch of un-ordered mods in NMM that require sorting out to some semblance of a balanced order - right now, these do not crash the game the way they currently are placed - they simply do not show up in-game, and I do not know how to fix this!

 

Could use some pointers here, I reckon



#2
WastelandAssassin

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first of all , LOOT is by no means perfect

in fact , LOOT sometimes makes serious mistakes , so it is up to the user to make sure that the load order is actually correct

 

as for Beth.net mods , I've never installed one of these , but if you can install and manage them through NMM , you shouldn't have any problem

you can even lock specific plugins in your load order (at least I'm pretty sure NMM allows this , I know that MO allows this) , which will prevent LOOT or other programs from changing the position of these plugins in your load order

 

as for running LOOT from NMM , I'm pretty sure you can add a launcher of it to NMM , but from what I saw (did a little search , just to be sure) it's just not necessary

people do this for convenience , but if you run LOOT properly , it will manage your mods in NMM , regardless if you run it from NMM or not

so either you made some mistake in installing LOOT , or it doesn't recognize your game , I really can't tell

but this seems like an error on your side , not something related to NMM

 

as a small side note , reading your DOSS Windows part , I don't think you actually understand what a load order means

there is nothing related to placing files into directories or anything

this part is directly related to the installation of mods , not to the load order

I can't comment on anything related to Beth.net because , as I said , I've never used anything from that site

but I'm not really sure you truly understand the process of modding , and your problems may just result from you not installing mods properly (I really don't know if this is the case , but it happens quite often , especially with first time mod users)

If you would like to explain in more details what exactly are the problems , and how exactly Beth.net mods work (how you install and manage them) , I'll do my best to assist



#3
DaughertyUSMC

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@ WastelandAssassin :      

 

Please allow me to clarify a couple points - When I posted the above, I was suffering with "the passion of the moment" (meaning, pretty ticked off about the subject at hand) so expletives and such can come across less than I had hoped for.

 

I am actually a pretty decent IT guy - I specialize in removal of the various maladies that folks get hit with when opening something they perhaps should not have, and I fix the Registries, reinstall their OS's from master boot  media I have prepared for such times, rebuild 'puters, install all the replacement bells and whistles with upgraded hardware, drives, and all that,etc.

 

I do  a lot more, but Modding a game - this is new territory, and yet it appears not so difficult as it first seemed to me.

I discovered an interesting thing last night:

 

I run Win 10 Prem., and though it has it's quirks, other than internally automating many of the maintenance applications I used to prefer doing myself in earlier versions when ya could, I generally have no real issues with this OS. But it CAN cause some weirdness in how it writes to files - more to the point where files and their parent folders get placed. And THIS is what had happened with the whole Nexus/Bethesda thing.

 

I was opening NMM, hitting the green enable checkmark for all the plugins - these were solely the mods I grabbed from Nexus  - NMM does not show ANY of the Bethesda mods, and then starting the game to check the MODS page in the main menu to see what may have appeared. NO nexus mods showed up, period, and they make up for half of my mods, so in-game I was getting benefits from only half what I wanted in there. I also discovered that enabling nexus mods in NMM, disabled all my Bethesda mods in the game, and totally screwed up THAT load order I managed to cobble together correctly (no issues) So apparently NMM DOES "see" my games presence, but the mods won't load in. 

 

And the same happens in reverse - when I enable my mods again in the game side of things, it cause my nexus plugins to become once again, disabled. Not a huge fan of ping pong!

 

I found the problem - Nexus mod downloads to NMM is placing THOSE plugins, etc in:

C:/Program Files x86/Steam/steamapps/downloading/377160/Data/"all the various .esp's etc."

 

Bethesda.net downloads are installing to:

C:/Program Files x86/Steam/steamapps/common/Fallout 4/Data ....  and THESE are the files the game sees.

 

So I copied a couple of the NMM files over to the Bethesda side, and they showed up in game after I enabled them from the main menu mod LO page. 

 

SO now we can see what has been happening - and the fix is simple and obvious, but the only thing is that once the NMM plugins are migrated to the correct folder, their info in the Bethesda Mod LO page is blank - just a matter of finding where THAT info is stored on my drive, and placing it wherever I discover it needs to go. Meanwhile I merely need to open the game to it's LO page, drop to desktop and log onto Nexus, and have a look at my downloaded mods there for their info so I can get their respective LO's correct on the game side.

 

I don't know how many folks have had this issue, and may even STILL not understand what is happening - I know I have not seen any posts about this specific issue.

 

I have one additional issue (not related) that maybe you could help with: Do you by chance use CBBE and Bodyslide? I am in a real bind with these and progress in-game is halted til I find out something I can do to effect a fix.

 

Anyway, I want to express my thanx for your fast response to this post!

MD



#4
WastelandAssassin

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well , I wholeheartedly understand the "heat of the moment" thing , happens to everyone

 

could you check something? you say that NMM downloads mods to the wrong folder

however , NMM downloads aren't NMM installations . when you activate a mod in NMM , it places the files into the game's folders , whereas it seems like Beth.net mods just directly install themselves

so could you check if your NMM mods install to the correct folder? some may be packaged wrong , so it might cause the problems

 

as for CBBE and Bodyslide , I've used both several times

so what exactly is the problem? do these just not work for you?

Gopher has a wonderful video regarding this , you can find it here https://www.youtube....h?v=Wkwtgp3x25s

if this still doesn't help , do explain what the issue is , and I'll do my best to assist



#5
DaughertyUSMC

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Between each time we correspond, I learn/find new stuff that pertains to this subject matter - funny how that happens, eh?

 

NMM plugins are showing up in a different folder than Beth plugins, as I mentioned above and typed in their "write to" paths. I mis-spoke when I said "downloading mods to" - I meant that the "plugin related files are being written to ......"

 

I finally got the Bodyslider to work somewhat, and got a "Clean Nude" texture on Nora (the "dead" wife of our character - mod I have allows her to have actually survived and escape the vault where I find her at Abernathy's Farm - she has full interaction, just as any main followers, incl affinity levels, etc. Makes for an interesting game and requires a small, quick quest after exiting the vault the first time, to locate her.) Anyway, I want to outfit her with things I created via CBBE lists - can't have Nora running 'round in her B-Day suit (well I could, cuz I made her a gorgeous body, but......) However, things I have already created in the chemistry work bench, when applied to her, are either a textureless violet color, and her skin texture is mottled with that patchwork crap, or she simply becomes invisible behind the garment (which remains w/out texture) I messed around with the Outfit Studio, but do not understand it's use or what the tools do. That's where I'm at with that. Btw, watched that video so far like five times, and I can do what he does - put the girl in the underwear. I can do a batch build, and have done so in fact for a couple outfits, but I am still in Sanctuary, building some amazing stone buildings, and haven't seen any NPC's in general yet, to see if the batches took hold. But things like Jasmine's and Laura's armor, Vault Girl stuff, and a lot more - these are some of what are at odds right now.

 

                                          

 ONWARD                                                                                       

 

I tend to use logic, even when I do not have all, or understand, correlating info that becomes solid knowledge with experience. I have always been an intuitive learner, which is how I became good at most things I lay my hands on - it's a process. On the flip-side, I have always had trouble understanding what people write - probably because my mind sees a different path to the same outcome oftentimes. A teacher in school would write math problems on the chalkboard and it never made any sense to me, hence i flunked math most of my life. Textbooks were the same, and I had no retention of stuff just read, and yet I can walk a new trail in darkness, in a new and unfamiliar terrain, and recall it's exact location 20 years later. I suck at math but am a master carpenter, using all manner of math to figure my angle cuts, etc. because I "see" the obvious solution in my head - don't even know what math I would be using - don't care! lol. It just works.

 

I apply the same "logic" when figuring solutions to computer crap. I am like the kid who takes apart his mother's favorite clock just to see how it works. My very first PC was a home-built hodge podge of various sundry components, built by a friend of a friend in Idaho. The outside case was generic, and the floppy drive was hot-glued to where it entered the housing LOL. It ran Win 95. Well I dove right into the registry, and managed to delete ALL of the systems' drivers - you can probably guess how that went. I got it fixed, and THEN began studying that thing in earnest ... albeit, very carefully. Today I whiz through fixing all manner of issues within the Registry, like the time I rid ALL of Norton AV (which is invasive as hell and spread out throughout the system) from a woman's PC, then gave her a much easier but effective replacement. No one taught me anything - I learned by applying logical deduction, and just doing it.

 

I went at this mod problem in the same manner. It seemed logical to me that if two different installation folders were in direct opposition to one another, simply merging the twain would rectify the issue. And that's what I did. Probably raise eyebrows on a lot of 'puter geeks, who seem to oftentimes prefer more complicated but "safer" methods, like overwriting .ini file values, etc., but I wouldn't have any notion of what values things would need - I can write "=0", or "=1", and that's about it. (btw - I reckon I am a geek too - love tech!) So I simply copied all the plugins from one folder, over to its corresponding mate (/Data, at both locations).

 

I have watched a whole lot of vids where "write to" paths for .esm, .BA2's etc always went to "/Fallout 4/common/Data ...... NOTHING was ever shown or mentioned about a folder called "/downloading/" , which is located directly beneath the /common/ folder within the parent directory, and both contain a Data folder. Nexus mods are inclined toward the /downloading/ folder, whereas Bethesda mods use the /common/ folder. By copying the Nexus plugins into the /common/ folder, I now have both sets of plugins together, and appearing in both the NMM and the Beth. MO in the game start menu. And they ALL show up in-game and work.

 

Beth and Nexus STILL cancel one another out in terms of enabled mods, so I still have to re-enable and redo my LO in the Beth LO page at start-up. Enabling them all in NMM doesn't simply make them appear in-game, although I just read this morning on a forum where someone said to enable them in NMM and then start the game BUT do NOT open the LO in the menu, and the mods should be active in-game. I will try this, but am not expecting success. Someone else mentioned something about editing .ini files by removing the "Read Only" property to enable the mods in-game, but this sounds "dangerous" and time-consuming, and I don't know which files or where these necessarily are - (for now)

 

And that's where I am at atm



#6
WastelandAssassin

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well , for starters I can tell you that the violet textures mean missing textures , while invisible body parts mean missing meshes

therefore , it seems like the models you build in BodySlide are somehow installed to the wrong folder (or the mods themselves are installed to the wrong folder , which seems more likely)

just to be sure here , when you say you've just copied the plugins to the correct folder , have you also moved the other assets? (the different folders like Meshes , Textures etc)

because if you haven't also moved these files , this explains the missing assets you see in your game (though it still doesn't explain why you need to move them in the first place)

 

this all seems extremely strange to me

I've never had any problems with installing mods , especially not something like this

and it all just sounds like your NMM installation isn't set up properly somehow , as it doesn't seem to want to install your mods to the correct folder

 

if you can't set up NMM to work properly (maybe try a fresh installation of it?) , perhaps you should try using MO instead (I believe MO2 is used for Fallout 4 , but you should check to make sure)

maybe MO will work properly for you



#7
DaughertyUSMC

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I'd certainly try MO (if I knew what these initials stood for) generic search for "MO2" only brought up forum requests from players wanting help with their load orders. 

 

After diligent searching I discovered a download page with several versions going up from Alpha - to current Beta, which is this one: 

 

Mod Organizer By tannin42  https://github.com/T...nizer-2.0.7.exe

 

I hope this is what you were talking about?



#8
WastelandAssassin

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sorry , I tend to forget that not everyone knows these acronyms by heart

MO does stand for Mod Organizer

you can find the latest version here https://www.nexusmod...out4/mods/28715

there is also the same version on the Skyrim SE page , but this FO4 page also houses the latest version of it



#9
DaughertyUSMC

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I got it installed - yet one more item to toss into the quagmire of my confusion - lmao.

 

I re-installed my game a couple days ago - kept my later saves of course, but no telling if they are corrupted at all or not, because I have had minor issues throughout the game between saves. This time, nothing has been installed to the other "Downloading" folder (the one I had to copy my MOD .esm's from, over to the Data folder in order to have both Nex and Beth mods show up in game) In fact, today I re-installed NMM and it wouldn't execute because it needed the FallOut 4 .esm IN the Downloading folder, and it wasn't there - I had to copy it into that folder, otherwise the stupid folder is empty (when it was stuffed full of mod stuff, etc, in the first go 'round.) Game plays no differently. Mods from both sides appear to be showing in-game now, however - that's a good change, for once. 

 

My female followers' bodies are still messed up - I AM using BodySlide exactly as the tutorial vid says, but the nice bodies I create and then build do not show up cleanly in-game - still getting that mottled, splotchy patterned texture, color, or whatever one should call it. I do not know how to fix this!

 

I thought about just starting a brand new game, to MAYBE clear some of these issues up (and perhaps it would) but I have built some extremely amazing structures at both Sanctuary Hills, and my personal retreat at Sanctuary Hot Springs (Settlement and Home) I am talking about very elaborate buildings, using half a dozen different expanded building mods, incl all DLC stuff, Clean and Smooth EVERYHING, unlimited budgets, and slashed budget limits (But I am careful with this last one not to exceed common decency so I don't screw up the game load. I keep the buildings to a minimum - 2 or 3 max per settlement) The rest is some crops, and the usual water, power stuff. I am not wanting to lose all this work over a follower's appearance - not yet anyway. ( I used to create Maps for folks in Far Cry 3 - xtreme detail, hence their popularity, using the Map Editing tools - I am accustomed to going the extra mile with anything I build or create - Guess this is what makes me a great Master Carpenter in RL.

 

Any ideas on how else I can fix their "bods"?



#10
WastelandAssassin

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what are you using to mod your game? have you used MO for this , or are you back to using NMM?

and just to make sure , you aren't trying to use both at the same time , right? because that would surely lead to issues

 

it sounds like you've had problems with your installations , for some reason

if you can load your clean game , and start a new save (just for testing) , does it work properly with no mods installed?

because sometimes installation errors occur , and require reinstalling the game again

once you know the game is running properly , you'll need to work with your mod manager , make sure it is installed and running properly , and try to fix the issues it seems to have (never heard of NMM requiring Fallout4.esm in the downloading folder , for example . it doesn't sound right , so it might be some error with NMM or your installation of it)

 

if you are considering starting a new game , I know there is a tool that allows you to upload your settlements , and then create them again from a file (so for example , you can download someone else's settlement , and just install it into your game , without the need to actually build it yourself . it just recreates itself into your game) . don't remember the name of the mod , but it should be really easy to find (I'll try to find it for you , if you can't and are interested in this)






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