Why do poeple ignore/complain about mods that need SKSE64?

[m3dicat3d]

Look, to each their own, and if you have a reason not to DL a mod/utility, it's your game and your priority to do so. That much I do get.

 

What I don't get is the frequent posters saying they will not DL a mod b/c of the SKSE req, or that they complained of having to do so in order to use the mod. Hopefully I'm not beating a dead horse here, but if I'm not, I'd like to ask what the reasoning is behind those statements?

 

I'm not judging, I just really don't understand. I am cognizant that I can only speak from my perspective in having a great experience with it and that's why I ask about the other perceptions...

 

 

I'm one of those that endorse SKSE64, use it constantly, and my experiences have been overwhelmingly impressive. I guess some people have tried it and had bad experiences when they comment like that? I know that some (or a lot of) the times ppl will speak without having tried the thing in question, but I have no idea how the less than positive endorsements are being arrived at, and what the split would be b/t ppl that have tired and dislike, or dislike simply b/c part of the name has "alpha" in it.

 

I personally love the stability of my game (especially over oldrim modded), I greatly respect the team and the sacrifices they make (that many of us, myself included, have little to no knowledge of) and I can't believe that this is an alpha release given how beautifully it has worked for me. It just seems weird that people were asking about an SKSE for SSE before SSE was even released, and now that it's been around 4 to 5 months, I see some of the comments that I do.

 

So why the cold-shoulder from some?

[Grimolfr]

Right now I think a lot of people are just scared of the "Alpha" moniker.

[wanderer3292]

Look, to each their own, and if you have a reason not to DL a mod/utility, it's your game and your priority to do so. That much I do get.

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What I don't get is the frequent posters saying they will not DL a mod b/c of the SKSE req, or that they complained of having to do so in order to use the mod. Hopefully I'm not beating a dead horse here, but if I'm not, I'd like to ask what the reasoning is behind those statements?

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I'm not judging, I just really don't understand. I am cognizant that I can only speak from my perspective in having a great experience with it and that's why I ask about the other perceptions...

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I'm one of those that endorse SKSE64, use it constantly, and my experiences have been overwhelmingly impressive. I guess some people have tried it and had bad experiences when they comment like that? I know that some (or a lot of) the times ppl will speak without having tried the thing in question, but I have no idea how the less than positive endorsements are being arrived at, and what the split would be b/t ppl that have tired and dislike, or dislike simply b/c part of the name has "alpha" in it.

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I personally love the stability of my game (especially over oldrim modded), I greatly respect the team and the sacrifices they make (that many of us, myself included, have little to no knowledge of) and I can't believe that this is an alpha release given how beautifully it has worked for me. It just seems weird that people were asking about an SKSE for SSE before SSE was even released, and now that it's been around 4 to 5 months, I see some of the comments that I do.

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So why the cold-shoulder from some?Â

I think many are afraid of the alpha state, which also makes it look like it's not very well supported. I recall seeing a reddit post saying that those authors are very much software tech guys, and that thibgs professionals stay in alpha for 12 months after the latest update.(seems like a long time to me)since bethesda will continue updating the game becuase of the CC, it will probably be in alpha for a long time.

 

When I began modding, I avoided it for a while as I was not comfortable doing much outside of NMM. as crazy as it sounds for the ones that do know what they're doing when it comes to mods, I'd imagine there still are some people that avoid mods like this,and FNIS that require a little more work than the average mod. Also, so many mods that needed it have been able to get around the dependancy, so I'm sure some people would rather not deal with needing to update it every time the game is updated.

 

personally, I love having it. it makes my mod list feel more complete, and works perfect. Simple face to face conversation alone is worth using it, in my opinion.

[Rasikko]

They are like that with SKSE in general..

 

I think it's just that they don't understand how it works, to know that SKSE is technically a harmless backend app that talks to the game using its language(C++) and does nothing to the executable.

Edited February 23, 2018 by Rasikko

[cdcooley]

Most of it is the simple fact that SKSE64 has not been officially released and some is just the general distrust or lack of interest that's always been a part of the script extender experience.

 

In this case the SKSE team specifically stated that the current alpha version is only for modders to test. So right now absolutely no one should be trying to "endorse SKSE64" or getting more people to use it. The people posting mods that require the script extender are being extremely irresponsible. Unfortunately many people don't know what to look for when it comes to the bugs that exist so too many people think everything is just fine. SKSE64 is in alpha testing and still has some significant bugs that have not yet been fixed.

 

Before you think I'm some anti-script extender troll, you should understand my modding history and perspective. I wrote the very first usable mods that required the Morrowind Script Extender (which was the first of its kind). I even took over support for MWSE and added features to it until I found some people with more skill who were willing to take over the project. Those people then developed OBSE and all of the other script extenders including SKSE64.

 

You're giving me a flashback to those Morrowind days. Back then most people were very outspoken about their concerns over needing to download a third-party executable that interacted with the game just to use a mod. Some had security reasons, but most were simply unhappy because it was an extra (in their eyes complicated) step and they couldn't see any reason that it should be needed. Eventually most came to trust that MWSE (and then the various script extenders that came out for the later games) was safe and that it really did allow creating mods that weren't possible with just the original game's scripting features. Now many people think of a script extender as a basic requirement for successful modding, but there still many that don't and there are always new people coming into the community who will continue to have those same initial fears and biases.

 

After initially spending so much time convincing people that MWSE was a good thing I then had to start spending more time trying to keep the overly zealous supporters from ruining its reputation. There were some people who loved it so much they refused to acknowledge its flaws, accept that not every mod needed to use the added functions, or that some mods could actually be better if they didn't use any script extender features. (If you look at my early Morrowind mods you'll find one that's a recreation of Scruggs's Melee Missiles that doesn't use the script extender. I created it specifically to prove that MWSE wasn't the solution to every problem and that sometimes a non-script extender solution was actually better.)

 

The script extenders are wonderful things and many of my mods wouldn't be possible without them. But now is not the time to be promoting SKSE64. And in general if you really want to promote script extender use make sure your tone and message come across as an inspiring evangelist not a demanding zealot.

 

SKSE64 is in alpha testing and it not yet ready for regular use. There are bugs and if you haven't found them consider yourself lucky but don't take that as proof that there aren't any or that they don't matter.

[wanderer3292]

I cant find the reddit post, but I did see one referencing the info that I mentioned, so I at least know I didn't imagine it. the authors themselves said that it was fully functional, but it will stay alpha until the skyrim.exe stops updating.

 

I'm other knocking anyone that wants to wait, I was holding off until I read the mentioned reddit post.

[m3dicat3d]

I appreciate the replies and info, and I learned some things I hadn't known before. That alone was worth posting for. Interesting to hear about the 12 month time frame. I didn't know that.


cdcooley - I didn't realize I was being a demanding zealot if that's how you meant it. I'm hoping that maybe I took your own tone incorrectly, but I never said it was bug free, and I do not have a flawlessly running game. I have a more stable game now with SSE than I ever did with Skyrim, which for me was less stable, with frequent freezes, CTDs, and the like. I still get freezes, crashes, and bugs. Just not as many and nothing game breaking. I never meant to infer that it is a final release in its current state.

 

I thought I was being straightforward by stating I could only draw from my own positive experiences, hence the question of other experiences/perspectives, and the question was a sincere one.

You can call the authors that are releasing mods with the script extender requirement irresponsible and those of us who are using it the same, that's your right. But people are using it, and many are having experiences like mine. Some are not apparently, and I wanted to know. I would think at least that the early input from those who are using it, intended or not, positive or not, could be useful for the development process anyway. So I'm not sure what I've written that would draw your ire, and I appreciate your contribution to the discussion, just not your rebuke.

[TheMastersSon]

I think it's just that they don't understand how it works, to know that SKSE is technically a harmless backend app that talks to the game using its language(C++) and does nothing to the executable.

Whether it modifies the executable isn't the issue at least for me. I don't run script extenders primarily because they're third-party and therefore change a game from one with a common/dependable/reliable set of capabilities from the developer/publisher, into one where capabilities are undefined, open-ended and vary by player depending on which versions of the extenders they're using. And because I've never actually needed an extender for the handful of mods I run. :)

[cdcooley]

I thought I was being straightforward by stating I could only draw from my own positive experiences, hence the question of other experiences/perspectives, and the question was a sincere one.

 

You can call the authors that are releasing mods with the script extender requirement irresponsible and those of us who are using it the same, that's your right. But people are using it, and many are having experiences like mine. Some are not apparently, and I wanted to know. I would think at least that the early input from those who are using it, intended or not, positive or not, could be useful for the development process anyway. So I'm not sure what I've written that would draw your ire, and I appreciate your contribution to the discussion, just not your rebuke.

Sorry, yes you were very clear and my tone was more harsh than I had intended. I wasn't trying to rebuke you specifically but point out a potential problem that worries me.

 

As I said, your post brought back old memories from the early days. We really did have a problem back then with people claiming that the script extender was a miracle. And their attitude delayed real acceptance of the idea of using a script extender for many people because nothing could live up to the expectations they set. Because SKSE64 is in alpha I really don't like the trend of pushing people to use it. And that's specifically because for the new users who do have a bad first experience (and that's certainly not everyone) there's a reasonable chance they will become SKSE64 haters in the long term. I have no problem with experienced players who have used SKSE for years wanting to try SKSE64, but when they promote new players giving it a try it makes me nervous. And the mod authors (except for the SkyUI team) seem to be publishing their mods in a way to attract new players to try them.

 

You're right that it can be very helpful to the team to get feedback from both experienced players and mod authors, but it's nothing but a distraction when they get questions and false bug reports from new players who have no idea how things are supposed to work. Basically for every new user who tries SKSE64 and sends a message to the SKSE team it only delays the final release. I'm impatient enough that I don't want the SKSE team getting any distractions. :)

 

P.S. I may have missed a newer reddit thread, but I remember seeing a comment about that 12-month timeline and it was purely speculation not something specifically stated by someone on the SKSE team. My guess is that the delay is simply a combination of their busy schedules (like the initial delay before the alpha that had people convinced the project was dead) and waiting to see just how often Bethesda is going to keep changing the executable. But frankly I'm getting really impatient because I have some of my own mods I want to port over to Special Edition and in three cases the functions I need are still not working so I can't even convert them for my own use!

[cdcooley]

 

And because I've never actually needed an extender for the handful of mods I run. :smile:

That sums up the real issue. Even most of those who don't want to run third-party programs (and I started that way too) will do it if a mod they really want requires it but it has to be something compelling. Many people simply aren't interested enough in the type of mods that actually need the added scripting functions.