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TheMastersSon

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However, I have to reiterate: If you believe that these rights are literally granted to you by some 'higher power', whether that is an earthly Government or a supernatural Deity, this is a concession to tyranny.

 

Because, as I said before, both a State and a Deity presumably have greater power than you, which they can use against you as much as for you.

 

In the case of your rights being granted either by God or by Government, you only retain these privileges because of a totalitarian permission. Furthermore if your rights come from an all powerful superbeing, then that being takes them away, in common vernacular you are utterly screwed.

Can you explain what you mean by "then that being takes them away"? In what case would a supreme being eliminate human rights? So far every case of rights repression, around the world and without exception, has been from people not God.

 

Also imo your cosmological model is horribly cynical and myopic. You're equating theocratic belief with tyranny, but in a relative universe, belief in God is simply belief in yourself. As many human beings that have ever lived, the last act of each and every one of us on our deathbeds is and can only be absolute surrender of this "totalitarian permission". Thus the world consists of people and countries who believe in God and those who don't, my country (the U.S.) is in the first group. Fortunately. Because according to the current political map of the world, not to mention the last 5000 years of human history, the only practical alternatives to this "tyranny" (i.e. majority theocratic belief) are atheistic totalitarianism and anarchy.

Edited by TheMastersSon
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Regarding the scenario of a deity taking your rights away, I am speaking theoretically. In real terms it would be the 'second in command' doing the taking, the Priest/Mullah/Holy Figure. Practically, the deity is an absentee landlord with an earthly interpreter.

 

As to the alternatives to theocracy, there is a much better option not only readily available but already implemented. It's called a secular democratic republic, where you have a seperation of executive, legislative and judicial powers to prevent any one entity getting too much control.

You also have an impartiality to religious organisations, not allowing any single one of them dominion over all the others, nor allowing them to interfere with government or vice-versa. This means any aspiring self appointed speaker for whichever god is going to have a tough time getting into power to impose whatever policies their god 'told' them to create.

Theocracy doesn't tend to get off the ground if you have a country that allows multiple religious ideologies with different belief systems and deities to coexist.

 

Is a secular democratic republic perfect? Nope. Is it ideal? Not even. I would say though that it is by far the least awful system and a noticable improvement on the other proposed alternatives.

 

I think this is probably as far as I can go in this line of discussion without straying into religion fully, we're already dancing on the cusp. It also occurs to me that I have effectively derailed the discussion, something about Syria? Sorry about that.

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Regarding the scenario of a deity taking your rights away, I am speaking theoretically. In real terms it would be the 'second in command' doing the taking, the Priest/Mullah/Holy Figure. Practically, the deity is an absentee landlord with an earthly interpreter.

 

As to the alternatives to theocracy, there is a much better option not only readily available but already implemented. It's called a secular democratic republic, where you have a seperation of executive, legislative and judicial powers to prevent any one entity getting too much control.

You also have an impartiality to religious organisations, not allowing any single one of them dominion over all the others, nor allowing them to interfere with government or vice-versa. This means any aspiring self appointed speaker for whichever god is going to have a tough time getting into power to impose whatever policies their god 'told' them to create.

Theocracy doesn't tend to get off the ground if you have a country that allows multiple religious ideologies with different belief systems and deities to coexist.

 

Is a secular democratic republic perfect? Nope. Is it ideal? Not even. I would say though that it is by far the least awful system and a noticable improvement on the other proposed alternatives.

 

I think this is probably as far as I can go in this line of discussion without straying into religion fully, we're already dancing on the cusp. It also occurs to me that I have effectively derailed the discussion, something about Syria? Sorry about that.

That's ok, if a topic actually stayed on topic here, I would probably drop over dead from a heart attack. :)

 

I am real curious what the Russians are going to do in retaliation.......

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Regarding the scenario of a deity taking your rights away, I am speaking theoretically. In real terms it would be the 'second in command' doing the taking, the Priest/Mullah/Holy Figure. Practically, the deity is an absentee landlord with an earthly interpreter.

There is no second in command. That's the point, and the core difference between free and totalitarian governments. In the U.S. our law exists to serve the people, the people do not exist to serve the law. No other person or group of people, regardless of any of our civil laws, can ever compel any American citizen to act against his or her own conscience. Ever. Because in my country no higher authority exists or is claimed to exist. Even our soldiers and other armed forces personnel can claim conscientious objector status if they so choose and at any time. How 300+ million people might imagine a Grand Pubah, or even the belief of some that no Grand Pubah exists at all, is a separate and unrelated issue as long as the vast majority do believe in one. Last I checked that number was still well north of 80% in the U.S. Edited by TheMastersSon
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difficult to see the forest for the trees

 

alternatives to theocracy? secular democratic republic?

 

I need a little longer than usual to take these new existential subjective views in before I give an objective response.

 

If I were a judge in a court overseeing this discussion I would say, "Court's adjourned until everyone has given their complete attention to the fact that everyone is starting to share wind and I would rather be sailing on the breeze, then fishing for thoughts on ethereal properties."

 

I see very plausible tributaries from the central thought of one mind. Unified people who all are controlled by the ethereal being via a super mind control RC system. Almost like the FEDs thought Nikola Tesla's super conducting system could. That super conducting system that could power up lights without wires and didn't need places to plug in the radio.

 

The Rat Pack suggested comically that his invention would literally be a remote control to make humans into a hive mentally all driven by remote control that is in the hands of one supreme mental genius. The Rat Pack consisted of J. P. Morgan (Banker, T. Edison backer and friend) Thomas Edison, etc., etc., and so on. FEEL FREE TO CORRECT ANYTHING I MAY BE PARTIALLY OR HOLY :tongue: MISTAKEN ABOUT.

 

Ant Queens seem to be able to control all the worker (female) ants that way. As does it seem that the Queen Bee can.

 

Could humans be turned into a bunch of unconscious zombies that work under the controls of one super mentalist?

 

Houdini! Are you There!

 

I do not recall Mr. Tesla every suggesting his towers of static power could involve mind control. That was J.P. Morgan, Thomas Edison, and the rest of the Ruling Rat Pack Gang who J. p. Morgan supported and he added his childish two cents often too, adding to the idea of a freak show and made up silly nonsense about it.

 

They called Tesla "The 10,000 Watt Monkey".

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Pagafyr, I'm able to participate in your threads without causing disruption, and for whatever reason(s) you can't seem to return the favor. I owe you nothing with regard to what I post or how I express myself, if you don't like either or both, that's what this site's ignore feature is for. Please use it instead of threadshitting on other users. The only war drumming going on is from our current fascist traitor president, who seems hellbent on starting WWIII any way he can. At this point he's got everyone from our FBI to China awaiting his forced departure from office.

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I thought the Rat Pack was Dean Martin, Sammy Davis Jr., Frank Sinatra, et al...... :smile:

 

That group wasn't even born yet. J. P. Morgan and his lot were before their time. Our GREAT Great grand parent's lot (that made the News and kept the tongues wagging) from the 1920's were a group who gained fame for all having some connection for being born during the Year of the Rat.

 

The Roaring 20's is filled with similarities to today's news and entertainment sections in the papers, on the Internet, and such.

 

Pardon me if I don't go, out of my way, filtering all that I have read to make sure the headlines are facts. I find all the news stories amuses someone. And that the headlines often are written to sell the information that is often 24 hours to 48 hours old, to weeks old, 3 months old, and 6 months old by the time some publisher's get their services on the market.

 

I don't mind all the rambling rattle trap. It amuses me sometimes.

 

I find the latest destruction of some of Syria's buildings as something of a method to use up some of the stockpile of weapons. Writing it off as a War makes the expense of using it so it is a different tax write off. A method to destroy condemned buildings for a neighbor so they can clear out the rubble. May be it hides costs in the accounting department and the truth of their reason for declaring it a war effect. That puts the cost on a department with a glut in their cash drawer.

 

I wonder if the Syrian Real estate Agents are going to clear the rubble and build anew there from those condemned buildings or if the big city waste company will be dumping their cities garbage there?

 

Just amusing thought that some people shared at the board meeting. I have met have been in the company of people who do have table talk like that before they decided what to print in their news and entertainment section.

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