Is Vortex worth switching from Mod Organizer 2?

[LikeAyySir]

I'v been using mod organizer for about 3 years now and to me it has everything you could need as an average modder.

 

How does vortex compare to this, is it better than NMM but not as good as MO? Let me know what you think. I havent used it yet but im curious to see if it's anything decent.

 

What can Vortex offer than MO and NMM can't?

[bZuYSu90]

I have used both and still prefer MO2. They both can do the same things, they just accomplish them in different ways. The one thing for me was that Vortex seemed to leave sym links behind and otherwise impact on the data directory that needed cleaning up where MO2 has never done that to me. I think either can be used successfully so it is more a matter of preference than a matter of one being better than the other.

 

One really neat thing the MO2 devs just added though was the ability to link to multiple games in the nexus. So I can have a SkyrimSE install, that has Skyrim mods installed, and can check endorsement, version, and hot link to the mod page. But I spent a lot of time with Vortex too, and think it is still early in its development and figure the two will be comparable for a long time. So try both and pick one. Both dev teams are amazing.

[Rattledagger]

Each manager has it's strong points and NMM's strongest point is where's no difference between managing installed and uninstalled mods while MO doesn't really manage uninstalled mods at all but just throws everything hapazardly under the downloads-tab. Vortex falls somewhere in the middle, since for some very strange reason you can't edit not yet installed mods but they is grouped in the Nexus-group meaning house-mods does come under house etc. Even worse, if you do install a mod and change anything for so uninstalling it again (to free up disk space), Vortex forget everything you did while mod was installed and revert back to original state.

 

For installing mods, MO can be faster installing a single mod but since MO still haven't got installation-queue it falls decidedly behind Vortex when installing 100+ mods at once unless majority of mods uses fomod or other kinds of installers. NMM while having installation-queue uses excessively long times for some mods and have a tendency to fail to install some mods.

 

For handling loose files load-order, NMM is per file but in case wants to do any changes you need to disable mod and start for scratch with file-override when you re-enable. Vortex and MO is per-mod and while Vortex method is decidedly uncommon and a little learning-curve to understand at first, after you've familiarized you with the process it's fairly quickly to just start at the top (or bottom) and click all the red lightning-bolts in order to choose your loose file load-order. While MO's drag-and-drop is familiar, in case you do need to drag from top and close to the bottom or other way around you'll realize this isn't a very good method. Also you'll have no idea if you've placed everything as you desires or you've forgotten some conflicts. On the positive side MO does include the "hide file"-option. On the flip-side Vortex is a once-off, meaning even if you start with a new profile from scratch the rules is already in place meaning you don't need to re-do the rules (unless you uninstall some of the mods). Hopefully it's not too long before Vortex also includes per-file loose file load-order.

 

For plugin load-order, NMM with drag-and-drop is the best, since NMM never allows a plugin to be loaded before it's master like MO allows. While MO claims install-order doesn't matter, you'll quickly realize MO does a complete mess when it comes to plugin load-order, since you'll get completely different result if you enables mods from top to bottom (in left column) or if you enables mods from bottom to top. Really MO plugin load-order is basically useless unless you runs LOOT, or you've reading-in the load-order from file. Vortex has LOOT built-in and in most cases where's really not much that needs to be done.

 

If you need to do anything with Vortex plugin load-order on the other hand, you'll either need to set a numeric load-order or you'll supposed to drag a link from one of the plugins to another - not an easy task if one of them is close to the top and one of them at the bottom. Often Vortex will complain about cyclic rules, despite you've not made any cyclic rules but the LOOT-rules is interfering. At the moment Vortex weakest point is if you need to do any changes to the plugin load-order.

 

After you've got the plugin load-order as you desires on the other hand in Vortex, you don't need to repeat the process on any other profiles. With MO and NMM you'll need to change the plugin load-order every single time you setup a new profile - unless you've created LOOT-rules like you in practice did in Vortex.

 

Switching between profiles - here MO is decidedly the fastest, since it basically goes instantaneously. Vortex can use a couple minutes on large profiles (meaning profiles with 50k+ files). NMM is very slow and it's not uncommon to crash-out. So if you're switching multiple times per hour, MO has the advantage here.

 

When it comes to files added or edited in the data-directory outside the mod manager, NMM is (blissfully) ignorant of any such changes but does keep all original mod-files unchanged under /VirtualInstall/. MO2 just replaces any original mod-file with the new copy (or is this a configurable setting?) while Vortex does give a warning if you will replace original mod-file or revert back to original mod file. MO1 you'll really no idea if the file is replaced or put into /overwrite/. For any new files MO puts them into /overwrite/ while Vortex at the moment doesn't do anything with these files.

 

Both MO and Vortex allows per-profile game-settings and save-games while NMM does not. MO includes editing of games ini-files while Vortex does not - since it's recommended to use Bethini anyway this doesn't really matter.

 

MO1 does allow to not load dummy-BSA and let BSA override loose files, neither MO2 or Vortex allows this.

 

MO does allow unpackaging of bsa file-contents, Vortex does not. Since you can easily unpack bsa with other tools if you absolutely wants this I don't miss this feature.

 

Vortex limits all downloads to 1 MB/s unless premium while NMM and MO will use multiple downloads.

 

The Vortex GUI is sluggish sometimes.

 

So to sum up, features MO2 has that Vortex doesn't have:

 

* Instantaneous profile-switching.

* Drag-and-drop editing of profile load-order and loose files load-order - downside is, you need to do this per profile.

* Faster multiple file-download if you're not Nexus premium (unless your internet-speed < 1 MB/s) - irrelevant if uses web browser for downloads.

* New files not from a mod installed with MO2 showing-up in /data/-directory is put in /overwrite/.

* Hiding of individual files (a feature that breaks other profiles relying on the files now hidden).

* Unpackaging of BSA.

* Editing of ini-files (not sure if this works in MO2).

 

Features Vortex has that MO2 doesn't have:

 

* Uninstalled mods is grouped in their Nexus-categories.

* Installation-queue.

* Rule-based loose file load-order - normally only needs to do it once for all profiles or when you adds new mods.

* Rule-based plugin load-order - needs more work to improve this feature, but when you do have one working profile you'll normally not need to do much if any changes if you create other profiles.

* Get asked what to do if any mod-files has been changed in /data/-directory - currently missing the ability to put into new mod.

* Don't need to run game or any tools through Vortex.

* Vortex won't complain about "No data on top level" like MO does for some mods like Apachii Skyhair.

Edited April 21, 2018 by Rattledagger

[rmm200]

Left out one key MO feature.

 

Mods are read-only. Your mod shared with Profile A and Profile B will always be the same.

 

Under Vortex, mods are written to. Changes Profile A makes to that mod will be seen by Profile B - and may break it.

[Tannin42]

@rmm200: Nope, mods in MO are not read-only. If a tool changes a file that change will either (depending on how the tool works) happen in the original file, thus affecting both profiles or the change will be (silently) re-imported into the mod and also affect both profiles.

In MO2, prior to the latest release (2.1.2?), in-place edits will also affect both profiles, "replacements" will be stored in overwrite and thus also affect both profiles (although it's easier to see the change). Starting with this latest release, MO2 will use the same behaviour as MO1 again.

 

With Vortex, in-place edits will affect both profiles, replacements will be picked up and prompt an "external change detected" dialog where you can either import the change to the mod (where it will - again - affect all profiles) or undo it so it affects neither.

 

Vortex however does notice in-place edits, it just doesn't say because atm it can't do anything about it anyway - but in the future it may be able to restore the modified file from the archive. On top of that we may add an option to the "external change" dialog to move the modified files to a separate mod where it can then be enabled or disabled per-profile.

 

Thus Vortex, afaik, is the only mod manager with profiles where de-facto read-only mods are at least on the horizon. In all MO versions all file changes do affect all profiles.

[Rattledagger]

Left out one key MO feature.

 

Mods are read-only. Your mod shared with Profile A and Profile B will always be the same.

 

Under Vortex, mods are written to. Changes Profile A makes to that mod will be seen by Profile B - and may break it.

 

Since I mentioned "Hiding of individual files (a feature that breaks other profiles relying on the files now hidden)" I would definitely not call MO for "read-only".

 

NMM's mods placed in /VirtualInstall/ is on the other hand in practice read-only, since at least in my experience any normal game-tools will create a new file and thus breaking the hard-link and this means the original mod-file is still residing unchanged in /VirtualInstall/-directory.

[Rattledagger]

but in the future it may be able to restore the modified file from the archive.

 

Until profile-switching was broken in NMM v0.63.*, when you swapped between profiles and NMM detected you've used different fomod-installer-choices or one of the mods wasn't currently installed, NMM would re-install the mods from archive with correct fomod-choices, file-overwrites etc.

[rmm200]

@rmm200: Nope, mods in MO are not read-only. If a tool changes a file that change will either (depending on how the tool works) happen in the original file, thus affecting both profiles or the change will be (silently) re-imported into the mod and also affect both profiles.

In MO2, prior to the latest release (2.1.2?), in-place edits will also affect both profiles, "replacements" will be stored in overwrite and thus also affect both profiles (although it's easier to see the change). Starting with this latest release, MO2 will use the same behaviour as MO1 again.

 

With Vortex, in-place edits will affect both profiles, replacements will be picked up and prompt an "external change detected" dialog where you can either import the change to the mod (where it will - again - affect all profiles) or undo it so it affects neither.

 

Vortex however does notice in-place edits, it just doesn't say because atm it can't do anything about it anyway - but in the future it may be able to restore the modified file from the archive. On top of that we may add an option to the "external change" dialog to move the modified files to a separate mod where it can then be enabled or disabled per-profile.

 

Thus Vortex, afaik, is the only mod manager with profiles where de-facto read-only mods are at least on the horizon. In all MO versions all file changes do affect all profiles.

 

Thanks Tannin. I stand corrected. My experience with Mod Organizer sure made it look read only, with all changes going to Overwrites. Glad to know better mod isolation by profile is on the horizon. I really don't want changes to one profile to affect the others - I have a bunch of profiles. Every mod category has it's own profile, not wanting to affect the others. Lots of mods just don't play well together.

[drworm73]

Well, I think the most basic difference is Vortex is an alpha, and MO2 is much farther along. I don't recommend anyone converting completely to Vortex, but it runs very well and you might want to just convert one game to try it out. I like it quite a bit, but I still run MO for FO4 and TTW for various reasons. The rule based sorting is really pretty nice once you get used to it as the rules do all the work as you add new mods.

[Khumak]

I'v been using mod organizer for about 3 years now and to me it has everything you could need as an average modder.

 

How does vortex compare to this, is it better than NMM but not as good as MO? Let me know what you think. I havent used it yet but im curious to see if it's anything decent.

 

What can Vortex offer than MO and NMM can't?

 

Honestly there's only 2 things I miss about MO so far using Vortex. One is the ability to manage asset conflicts at the individual file level (hiding individual files rather than all or nothing like Vortex). The other is the ability to get my data directory back to a true vanilla state when testing things with multiple profiles. Purge mods does a rough approximation of it but it doens't handle files generated by 3rd party utilities like bodyslide, etc that don't match the vanilla game directory structure. So switching profiles requires manually removing files in my case.

 

Other than those 2 issues I find Vortex to be generally equivalent or superior to MO in pretty much every way. I've switched completely and am having an easier time managing my mods through Vortex now than I was through MO. It did take me some time to get used to Vortex's quirks and there are definitely some features I'd like to see added but overall it's a great mod manager.

 

Things I'd like to see added:

 

- ability to hide individual files when there are conflicts

- ability to override all conflict rules with your new one (or adopt an existing one) instead of leaving it as no rule

- right click option to enable all plugins

- abiltiy to change default remove file behavior to remove file AND archive instead of just remove file

- ability to see conflicts within BSAs (no idea how feasible this is)

- option to automatically open up the mod in file manager when installing (similar to MO's manual install) to make any necessary tweaks before installing (I almost always want to do this)

- a better way to deal with stray files that purge mods doesn't catch when using multiple profiles

- some way to link manually downloaded mods to it's nexus page for purposes of version/update checking

- ability to assign a category to a mod within Vortex