Online Fallout: 76

[sopmac45]

Bethesda has lost me for ESO and FO76 .... I do not and WILL NOT spend the money on Multiplayer games on-line. The other thing about FO76 is that there was an announcement that any and all mods will only be available through the Creation Club. Shame on Bethesda for turning into a money grubbing, don't care about their customers, company. I predict that trhis move will send them into receivership and eventually out of business.

 

 

 

I agree with you 100%. Long ago, when Bethesda came up with the Creation Club, I opened a thread about Bethesda new approach to mod their games ONLY thru their Creation Club in the upcoming games and I was criticized for thinking or saying that most likely, they will follow that approach, and here we are .... they won't allow modding this game but only thru their Creation Club and that will kill my interest in playing any Bethesda game UNLESS, the game is offline and can be modded outside their frame.

[AlarictheVisgoth]

Where did you get proof of BGS stating CC will be the only mod source when it finally comes online?

 

I have yet to see anything to date as an explicit go from BGS. Because it hasn't been mentioned in that recent NoClip BGS documentary or the one released on making of F76.

[AlarictheVisgoth]

I hope mod authors do not give up on Fallout 4 and Skyrim SE. Looks like those might be the last of the single player, first person, open world, non-linear, RPG-shooters. Sprucing up the game with cosmetic changes, new advanced companions (Heather Casdin is the only advanced companion not chained to the vanilla companion system while there are at least ten of them in Skyrim SE), and especially quest mods.

 

In the meantime, grateful players should be bowing in the direction of quest mod authors like Thuggysmurf and Kris Takahashi as an incentive for new quest mod authors to step forward and learn the Creation Kit. No reason for the golden age of modding to come to an end just because the colossal Online Monetization Dragon is looming menacingly on the horizon. Time for the Knight Paladins and Fireball Mages of mod authoring to step forth and fire a volley at that ravenous beast.

 

Well there still hope for more content with epic world mods the likes of Beyond Skyrim Bruma series. Or the Skywind/SkyOblivion overhauls. Or a comeback from the awesome team who did Project Brazil Part I (not likely but hey, we can dream). I doubt if players will ever truly stop making mods for TES V/FO4. Because believe it or not, the ancient online game of Ultima Online is still being played by folks today. And there are the older FO3, NV which were nicely bundled together into one tidy package by the awesome TTW mod. People are still making content for NV

[sopmac45]

/tinfoil hat

1. Bethesda knows user mods are a big and very important feature of their games, that's why they marketed it so hard for the XB1 and PS4 launches of Skyrim and Fallout 4. The fact Todd haven't mentioned user created mods specifically and given very needed positive news in this backlash points to that not being the case.

2. Todd referred to private servers as "services". You don't own a service, you pay for it to be provided and this indicates any servers have to be rented from Bethesda like many other similar titles already do

3. No company would build a large delivery system for mods and have user created free variants compete with their own (profits). Any mods you run on private servers will therefore likely not only be Creation Club only but also registered and owned by player/owner/server as both copy protection and guarantee no violent, sexist or otherwise unwanted content breaking their own, Sony's or Microsofts's terms is active. You don't want to expose their customers with inappropriate content and risk being prevented or delayed from accessing their huge pool of potential buyers. Cutting user mods entirely not only avoids this but also saves a lot of time, money and work having to maintain systems to monitor and handle both players and mods breaking these conditions. They already proven they've been unable or largely unwilling to effectively handle the frivolous mod take-downs, personal attacks, unauthorized uploads and other idiocy people have been pulling on Bethesda.Net so they know exactly how bad things can get should they try it again.

4. Todd also said there is no way to completely opt out of PVP stating "We want a little bit of drama" meaning the only way for someone wanting to play solo, PVE with friends and possibly even

   avoid having their base destroyed when offline will be to rent a private server making it effectively an extra monthly fee for those players.

5. Making the game "always online" introduces another appealing point besides copy protection - the game is only working for as long as the authorization/multiplayer servers are up. Whenever Bethesda decides the game isn't profitable enough they can shut it down and push another title instead. You won't be able to play the game for as long as you want like Skyrim LE with a near endless stream of new community content with them only getting scraps of the base game + dlc price. Or nothing at all from those pirating it. They're not making that mistake again.

6. Finally, what anyone here thinks about all this is largely irrelevant, we're not their target group. Console (and mobile) players are, they've been used for over a decade paying for things PC users absolutely wouldn't like online access as well as for extras like xp boosts, cooldown resets, items, hats and so on.

   Fallout Shelter (with in game purchases) alone has more players than all other Bethesda titles ever had combined, this is a huge and very profitable group of gamers. Faced with having Content Club mods or none at all console users will chose the former, gladly, and have fun playing too.

   PCs users on the other hand are a demanding group, have way too varied hard-/soft-ware causing compatibility and testing issues, multiple sources outside Bethesda's control to get mods from as well as an open system enabling piracy making development even less rewarding.

Bottom line is that Bethesda is a for profit company and this approach, already proven both highly successful as well as (generally) player acceptable by other gaming companies, is arguably the most likely way to make a lot of it from a Fallout title. Should this work, and I believe it will, it'll likely be the blueprint all future Bethesda titles are developed, launched, maintained and "retired".

 

 

Your insight is very precise and the problem is that if this game becomes the blueprint that we are thinking, other companies will do the same. When the Creation Club was introduced, I knew that Bethesda was trying to kill the modding outside their umbrella. It was the beginning of what we are about to see in the upcoming games. They will come up with online games as stated above and they could only be modded via Creation Club.

I do not expect the new Elder Scroll VI to be an offline game.

[sopmac45]

Maybe this is just a phase Bethesda is going through of putting their top creations TES and Fallout into every possible devise and variation out there. The have Elder Scrolls online and now Fallout online.

 

I want to keep my fingers crossed and hope Bethesda comes out with a true Elder Scrolls 6 in four years and Fallout 5 the year after that. Hopefully, the lure of constant monetization will not keep Bethesda from making these flagship games in the manner in which loyal fans have come to embrace. What will become of the young console audience once they grow up? Please let there be some other game type suitable to their eventual mature years.

 

 

I really wish you are right about that because I do not see the new Elder Scroll VI to be an offline game. It should since they already have an Elder Scroll online but the way they are thinking now, is telling me there is a possibility that the new Elder Scroll VI could be also an online game.

[Moksha8088]

 

I really wish you are right about that because I do not see the new Elder Scroll VI to be an offline game. It should since they already have an Elder Scroll online but the way they are thinking now, is telling me there is a possibility that the new Elder Scroll VI could be also an online game.

 

I'm hoping those in the Bethesda Game Studio will retain enough affection for the groundbreaking success their games have had since Oblivion that they can churn out at least one more single player effort for TES and the Fallout series. Sometimes a craftsman's pride can influence business decisions, let's hope it can happen once again.

 

Right now it looks like multiplayer games, where you can entice a young clientele to have mom or dad buy shiny new online trinkets, are very lucrative. Not the way to build up a loyal customer base, but you can always bank on a steady supply of youngsters to buy your next online game offering. Single player games that encourage player made mods might not be as lucrative, but they keep going a long time. People are still playing Bethesda's Morrowind.

[buzzbomb]

I've been thinking and I'm not "Doom and Gloom." From what I've been reading in all the "Fallout 76" threads, most are thinking "End of an era, our way of gaming is dead." Some are thinking "I like the idea, gonna give it a whirl." Others are thinking "Hmmm, not sure about this one, gonna wait and see."

 

There are other points of view, but those three seem to be the most prevalent. I'd like to present my point of view, seen in an earlier thread I started, but reinstated here with some new insight:

 

Why can't Beth have the best of both worlds? The single-player, moddable, PC game is their bread and butter. They've got an inhouse employee base of designers who have done nothing but this for years. They know the lore, they know how to make these games (bugs, glitches and poor design decisions and all). These are the games that Beth makes and what we keep coming back for. They know this.

 

I read a post where the poster mentioned that people are sill playing Morrowind. It's a pretty good guess that most of those people also bought the further titles in the game. They just like Morrowind. Beth knows this. That's a playerbase that not only isn't going away, it's only going to grow as the first-gen console gamers mature and find their gaming niche. Trust me, you love that PVP until you can't "twitch shoot" anymore. I "Doomed" my buddy on dialup so many times. Ahh, fond memories. Anyway...

 

No company worth it's salt throws out a growing customer base in favor of another. What they'd do is attempt to cater to both. I watched the No-clip docu. Beth acquired a studio just to do "Fallout 76." It's not even taking developer time from the core Beth games. "Starfield?" It might be an actual game? It's been rumored for so long, I can't imagine who's been working on that one. It totally came out of left field.

 

An online Fallout game, however...not so much.

 

TLDR: I don't think FO76 changes anything significant in the next FO or ES games. I just think Beth is spreading it's wings.

[sopmac45]

I've been thinking and I'm not "Doom and Gloom." From what I've been reading in all the "Fallout 76" threads, most are thinking "End of an era, our way of gaming is dead." Some are thinking "I like the idea, gonna give it a whirl." Others are thinking "Hmmm, not sure about this one, gonna wait and see."

 

There are other points of view, but those three seem to be the most prevalent. I'd like to present my point of view, seen in an earlier thread I started, but reinstated here with some new insight:

 

Why can't Beth have the best of both worlds? The single-player, moddable, PC game is their bread and butter. They've got an inhouse employee base of designers who have done nothing but this for years. They know the lore, they know how to make these games (bugs, glitches and poor design decisions and all). These are the games that Beth makes and what we keep coming back for. They know this.

 

I read a post where the poster mentioned that people are sill playing Morrowind. It's a pretty good guess that most of those people also bought the further titles in the game. They just like Morrowind. Beth knows this. That's a playerbase that not only isn't going away, it's only going to grow as the first-gen console gamers mature and find their gaming niche. Trust me, you love that PVP until you can't "twitch shoot" anymore. I "Doomed" my buddy on dialup so many times. Ahh, fond memories. Anyway...

 

No company worth it's salt throws out a growing customer base in favor of another. What they'd do is attempt to cater to both. I watched the No-clip docu. Beth acquired a studio just to do "Fallout 76." It's not even taking developer time from the core Beth games. "Starfield?" It might be an actual game? It's been rumored for so long, I can't imagine who's been working on that one. It totally came out of left field.

 

An online Fallout game, however...not so much.

 

TLDR: I don't think FO76 changes anything significant in the next FO or ES games. I just think Beth is spreading it's wings.

 

 

 

I hope that you are right, but there are signs in the horizon that lead us to believe the opposite of what we expect or what we want. The question is : how much money have they made with the offline games vs. how much money other companies have made with their online games ? If Beth discovered their is more money in the online side of the field, they will definitely go that way and put the offline games on deck.

 

They also know that there are hundreds of good modders that have not made any penny with their excellent mods because simple put, the community have not rewarded them ever. How about if they start "buying" those authors for them to create excellent mods exclusively for their Creation Club so the community will start using it ? How about if they start developing mods for the upcoming online Fallout 76 that we won't be able to get anywhere except via their Creation Club ? What was their intention to come up with that Creation Club in the long term ? There has to be a reason, a reason that has to do with future games.

 

We love Beth games because they can be modded and we will continue playing those games and they know that. The problem is that we do not know exactly what is in their mind in relation to continue developing offline games. According to the news, they will come up with an online game ( fallout 76 ) and another offline like the second Wolfenteins and at this point we do not know if Starfield will be either online or offline. What is the future of PC games ? Where are we going ? I do believe every company is trying to go for a " www " .... meaning, create an online game that will connect the entire world .... I do not like that idea though but I think they are going that way. Everything is based on how much money they will get from it and if the profit is more than the profit they can get by putting up an offline game, they will go in that direction regardless of what we think or want.

[zanity]

I've been thinking and I'm not "Doom and Gloom." From what I've been reading in all the "Fallout 76" threads, most are thinking "End of an era, our way of gaming is dead." Some are thinking "I like the idea, gonna give it a whirl." Others are thinking "Hmmm, not sure about this one, gonna wait and see."

 

There are other points of view, but those three seem to be the most prevalent. I'd like to present my point of view, seen in an earlier thread I started, but reinstated here with some new insight:

 

Why can't Beth have the best of both worlds? The single-player, moddable, PC game is their bread and butter. They've got an inhouse employee base of designers who have done nothing but this for years. They know the lore, they know how to make these games (bugs, glitches and poor design decisions and all). These are the games that Beth makes and what we keep coming back for. They know this.

 

I read a post where the poster mentioned that people are sill playing Morrowind. It's a pretty good guess that most of those people also bought the further titles in the game. They just like Morrowind. Beth knows this. That's a playerbase that not only isn't going away, it's only going to grow as the first-gen console gamers mature and find their gaming niche. Trust me, you love that PVP until you can't "twitch shoot" anymore. I "Doomed" my buddy on dialup so many times. Ahh, fond memories. Anyway...

 

No company worth it's salt throws out a growing customer base in favor of another. What they'd do is attempt to cater to both. I watched the No-clip docu. Beth acquired a studio just to do "Fallout 76." It's not even taking developer time from the core Beth games. "Starfield?" It might be an actual game? It's been rumored for so long, I can't imagine who's been working on that one. It totally came out of left field.

 

An online Fallout game, however...not so much.

 

TLDR: I don't think FO76 changes anything significant in the next FO or ES games. I just think Beth is spreading it's wings.

"Spreading its wings"... right... that's why Todd (in his own words) has the THREE Beth locations currently working on Fallout:76 for the indefinite future. That's why E3 was all about monetisation and addiction gaming.

 

Why oh why do people use PROJECTION instead of facts. Beth has spoken. Zenimax has spoken.Todd has spoken. The 'Industry' (big publishers) have spoken. And yet too many people are still sticking their fingers in their ears going "lalala, I can't hear you".

 

I will repeat what I have said many times here. Todd could have taken 20 million dollars (pocket change to the Big Z), found a hungry bunch of external devs, and had a follow-up to Fallout 4, with the same or better quality, banged out in 18 months tops. He could have done this WHILE working on Fallout:76 at Beth. But he did not.

 

Here's an industry ANALOGY. Rockstar could have trivially banged out a single-player DLC for GTA:V, but did not. Instead it went GTA:ONLINE and only GTA:ONLINE. Did Rockstar turn down free money by not doing the single-player DLC? Not in their eyes.

 

NO- the industry changed, and didn't give a damn about user unhappiness. You and I are product to them- our opinions don't count if we can be 'persuaded' to go in a better direction - better for corporate greed that is.

 

Big Gaming is about TRAINING the customer- and that may even involved throwing an existing customer base under the bus - classic culling and breeding theory. Oh, in the 'bad' times, when customer response to new games is very unpredictable, well then Beth 'loves' its core audience, as does any cynical big industry in the same circumstance. But in the 'good' times, when the customer is predicatable and pliable and caught up in worshiping industry manipulated trends, then the customer must be granted NO RESPECT at all.

 

And mods- what mods. Online games from AAA publsihers are not modded- and unauthorised mods (thanks to Activision) for online gaming services are ILLEGAL. Beth has stated a 'mod' means a certain type of corporate DLC from the Creation Club. The current industry standard is to use the word 'DLC' and the word 'mod' (both are exactly the same thing) to represent different states of monetsation. So Beth, following current industry trends, gives away DLC for Fallout:76, but charges for mods. And Beth's 'mods' for Fallout:76 are simply DLC Beth charges money for.

 

Fallout:76 will be hacked, and for a time old school modders will try to create mods for this game whether Beth likes it or not. But no legit site will host these mods- certainly not the Nexus. And Beth will have to decide just how much legal action they take against these modders.

 

A miracle could happen (you might win the state lottery) and Beth might (you might win the state lottery twice in a row) authorise Nexus style modding of the PC version of Fallout:76- but to do so would NULLIFY all the serious effort made to monetise Fallout:76; IF Beth were planning to allow modding, they would NOT have made Fallout:76 in the first place, but instead made a conventional entry in the series, as everyone expected.

 

There is no modding coming in the sense of the word used here. There are no private servers coming in the sense meant by people who clearly no nothing about the history of online gaming. By 'private' Beth simply means the ability to control, to a certain extent, who exactly is on the server- and perhaps that server 'game mode' when Beth introduces 'game mode' 'mods' (misnomer) to the CC.

[sopmac45]

@ sanity .... I do believe the industry is going in that direction : online games only ! Beth never liked our critics about how buggy and bad their two major games were ( Skyrim and Fallout 4 ) and how good those games became once they were modded. People would have discontinue playing those games long time ago if it was not for all the mods created for those games and Beth started to change the wheel when they created the Creation Club and started to introduce mods from their own. They won't allow any more offline games and I do believe you are right about all of what you said.