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Mods will be allowed on Fallout 76


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#1
THEvaledgamer

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I noticed some people are running around with hair on fire but you guys dont have to frett. In this interview Todd Howard clearly states they will allow mods eventually. It will work by letting people use private servers to run mods through. So lets all just Tranquilo and be patient. All will be well.  :smile:

 



#2
jkruse05

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It's optimistic, but I'm holding out hope that a team will come in to add a bunch of NPCs, factions, and quests to make it a proper Fallout game, just with multiplayer. It's like the opposite problem from people trying to add multiplayer to other Beth games.



#3
SKK50

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Bethesda are clearly trying to drive the behavior of us old isolationist single players to adopt the new socially driven annuity revenue subscription model by releasing multiplayer first ... on Xbox (beta).

 

Once that mainstream market is established and milked, they will hoover up any of us modded solo play laggard holdouts with a solution, if we represent enough collective cash. Clearly we do as it has been acknowledged. Its classic tech adoption curve (diffusion of innovations) market development.

 

Let's not be surprised at a successful business using successful business practices, despite how us inDUHvidual snowflakes may feel about it.



#4
ThatMrSmile

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I'm honestly slightly stunned about F76. 

 

Always online, no singleplayer (playing solo just means doing quests and stuff on your own, it's not a singleplayer campaign) PvP, no NPCs. If I understand game design, and trust me, I really do, there's a huge chance, that the game will be just boring for its usual audience. The plot of the game will be just functional, nothing more than a basic exposition, most of the quests (if not all) will be revolving around collecting loot and claiming the land. Probably some arcade type side activities will be there as well. And no actual role playing based on game mechanics.

 

So, basically, F76 will be just another "entertain yourself" survival game with some looter-shooter elements bolted to it. Entertain yourself gameplay can only get you so far. Even playing with friends won't help much, it will only delay the moment, when the game turns into a complete boredom-fest. 

 

And at the moment, I'm trying to understand, what Bethesda is thinking of. The marketing campaign was rubbush so far - they had a whole week before E3 to familiarize people with the game and explain what Fallout 76 actually is (like they did with FO4 and its SPECIAL videos), but instead they decided to make a big surprise reveal. And most importantly, I can't understand how they are going to sell Fallout 76. Here's the thing, I know a lot of people who love the hell out of DayZ, Destiny, PUBG, The Division and other similar games. All of them hate Bethesda and its games. So, how are they going to sell the game, that is designed for people, who violently hate Bethesda, and has literally nothing on offer for Bethesda's games fans?



#5
zanity

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I'm honestly slightly stunned about F76. 

 

Always online, no singleplayer (playing solo just means doing quests and stuff on your own, it's not a singleplayer campaign) PvP, no NPCs. If I understand game design, and trust me, I really do, there's a huge chance, that the game will be just boring for its usual audience. The plot of the game will be just functional, nothing more than a basic exposition, most of the quests (if not all) will be revolving around collecting loot and claiming the land. Probably some arcade type side activities will be there as well. And no actual role playing based on game mechanics.

...

Todd gave another 'in person' interview today to IGN confirming your worse fears, and making it clear your fears are not strong enough.

 

Most missed Beth stating Fallout76 has a NEW engine- a modern 'land first' engine that no doubt finally moves all rendering methods to the GPU (unlike Fallout 4, for instance). But against what the old engine can do, the new engine is very dumbed down. So while IGN struggled to find questions that did not make fallout76 seem bad, no matter what they asked Todd confirmed the very worse news.

 

For instance, that the TRIVIAL non-settlements seen in the release material are actually as big and sophisticated as settlements can be in this engine. And that is all down to how this 'land first' engine handles sprites, and the cost of rendering sprites. A modern sprite is a 3D object, like a chair. The walls and platforms of Fallout 4 are very hard to handle in a sprite system. Their render 'cost' is highly uncertain.

 

While a building was shown being crafted out of chosen 'wall' panels, I think you'll find buildings all have a template, and that the wall panels are cosmetic textures that have to follow the master plan. Nothing like the freeform building in Fallout 4.

 

Few will believe just how bad and restricted Fallout76 is, no matter how many interviews Todd gives, until the 'game' is released. But here's a last point. The IGN interview, face-to-face, was typical yellow journalism with the IGN guy trying his very best to 'softball' Todd. But he was struggling to even think of questions, the answer to which would not make Fallout76 look bad. But he couldn't help himself as it seemed that every potential inquiry was troublesome. So he asked "any vehicles'.

 

In no universe would another AAA publisher make such a game without some type of vehicle. And in no universe would a current 'land first' engine be incapable of supporting vehicles (which the engine of Skyrim and Fallout 4 CANNOT do properly). But Todd said "NO!!!"- and you know why? Cos RAGE is the post apocalyptic beth IP with vehicles, so Fallout is BANNED from having them.

 

Yet building and supporting mad max style vehicles in Fallout76 would have been the ONLY interesting new concept you could trivially insert in a Rust style Fallout game. Think of the emergent gameplay fun players could have with races, and chases and vehicle raids. But Todd sez "NO!!!" simply cos of Rage.

 

PS wouldn't RAGE have been the far better IP for this Rust clone, not Fallout?



#6
zanity

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I noticed some people are running around with hair on fire but you guys dont have to frett. In this interview Todd Howard clearly states they will allow mods eventually. It will work by letting people use private servers to run mods through. So lets all just Tranquilo and be patient. All will be well.  :smile:

 

You haven't the first clue just how limited this non-game is going to be. And NO, there will be no Nexus style mods- you can take that to the bank.

 

But let's play the devil's advocate and say the opposite could be true. Fallout76 is a new lightweight land-first engine. Lousy for true towns or cities, but amateur modders found building things of this ambition impossible to do to quality anyway. The new engine has all new GPU rendering, unlike fallout 4 etc that still did tons of render work on the CPU.

 

The new engine has new multi-player netcode (wanted by modders for ever). Client-side serving (the beth master servers only track player progression and instance save states). And land first engine that finally allows vehicles to be coded properly (Todd BANS vehicles in Fallout, however, considering vehicles the sole domain of the Rage IP- otherwise he thinks the two IPs would be too similar).

 

The truth is that full on modders could literally make their own BETTER than Beth games using the toolset Fallout76 provides IF Beth were stupid enough to allow this. So Beth is not going to allow this, ever.

 

This is how bad the situation is. Beth has the creation club, and Fallout76 is mesh compatible (or meshes can easily be converted) with the old Fallout 4 engine. So day one Beth could have had cosmetic OBJECTS for Fallout76 on the CC (like chairs, lamps, etc) but they are NOT. Why? Why is even something as limited and 'safe' as this a problem Beth has yet to solve?

 

When Todd sez 'mods', he means the same micro-transaction nonsense that has ruined games from other publishers. He means break-apart 'sculptures' like that wind turbine you see broken apart during the monster attack in the promo video. He does not mean mods in the sense anyone here means mods. 

 

And for the logical reason I said. Cos unrestricted, Zenimax could NEVER allow a game construction kit like the toolset for Fallout76 to hit the community. It would literally mean that free community content would directly compete with paid for Beth games.

 

Todd sez no vehicles allowed in the Fallout universe (today's major interview). But this is the FIRST thing major modders would code into Fallout76- the first thing. Vehicles (and the 'economy' that allowed their construction) would revolutionise Fallout76. But Todd sez NO!!! And Todd is god, whether you like it or not. You think the lowly devs on the game that became Fallout76 across the last 4 years didn't scream for vehicles in their game? Obviously they did.

 

However their masters said NO- Todd said NO. But you think Todd is going to allow YOU to say "yes"? That is what nexus style mods in Fallout76 would mean. All of Todd's rotten decisions reversed. The community becoming god, not Todd.

 

You may say "wasn't that the case with Skyrim mods or Fallout mods?". No it was not. The difference was one of tech. The older engine was broken and clunky. Ambitious mods are so complex they work poorly for most people, and are just too complex for most people to even try to use. The nexus is a pure NERD commuinity- but the vast majority of nexus mods used by the majority are very trivial ones.

 

The new engine of Fallout-Rust changes this dynamic. Super sophisticated mods could be packaged so even the least skilled could use them. A consequence of tech improvement in Beth's codebase. Letting people freely mod Fallout76 would turn Fallout76 into the next UNITY or LUMBERYARD or UNREAL4. And Zenimax just cannot let this happen. 

 

Beth's horrid E3 conference, with its emphasis on ripping off people with mobile and casual crap exploiting the gambling addiction industry psychologists are employed to target, told you everything about the now and future Beth. The Doom IP (eternal) has been converted to "gaming as a service" as has Prey and Quake. I suspect that new Wolfenstein game will turn out to be the same. Mad Max 2 (I mean Rage 2) is only single player cos Avalance had essentially completed Mad Max 2 before WB declined to publish. Starfield, a title that was supposed to have been revealed at last year's E3, is clearly on indefinite hold.

 

Let me make a suggestion to all of you. LISTEN to Todd. He's been going out of his way to make clear the new direction and policy of Beth. LISTEN to when he states FACTS (not when he spews vague fanservice like "we MIGHT do x in the future"). Todd has stated a lot of FACTS about Fallout76- it is not his fault you have your fingers in you ears singing "lalala- I'm not listening".

 

At E3, Todd literally almost passed out in ecstacy when he refered to the total number of people who 'played' Fallout shelter- making a point of stating it was far more than all those people who BOUGHT and played every other proper Beth game. Take the hint people. That 100 million+ who 'played' shelter are Todd's new friends and target audience, not the 'loser' fans of the original Star Wars movies- er I mean the original fans of Fallout and Skyrim (note an industry trend here that joins Disney and Bethesda).


Edited by zanity, 12 June 2018 - 11:34 PM.


#7
Moksha8088

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Take a look at the extent and limitations for the Nexus mods of Elder Scrolls Online: Chat fixes and a mod to punch up the color.  No companion mods, no actual quest mods, no weapons mods, not even preadolescent Elf girls with animal ears!  



#8
jkruse05

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And for the logical reason I said. Cos unrestricted, Zenimax could NEVER allow a game construction kit like the toolset for Fallout76 to hit the community. It would literally mean that free community content would directly compete with paid for Beth games.

How does that even make sense when people have to buy the game to use community content? Community made mods DRIVE sales. Are you trying to say they won't allow a full toolset to make your own game? Well of course not, they never have. Every toolset or CK has required the base game for its created content to work. 

It might compete with micro-transaction models, but do you honestly think they're stupid enough to think the same community that's creating and using community mods would go in for any decent percentage of CC content anyway? And again, it works both ways. Some people do buy CC content so they can make mods with them or use mods that require them.

 

The flat truth is that there is no good reason not to support mods in the same way they have in the past. The only obstacle lies in providing a new toolset that works with new engine features, and maintaining the purity of public servers by letting modded ones be separate.

 

Speaking of new engine features, where the hell are you getting this information? I'd really like to see your source, because from what I've heard they have a new RENDERER, not a new ENGINE, they aren't the same thing. It's still an iteration of the Creation Engine, as per the making-of documentary. All they said in there was that they de-coupled the rendering from the primary player entity so it could display without that driving entity being present. Beforehand another player could spawn in (with the new net code), but when they got a certain distance away the world just disappeared.



#9
ThatMrSmile

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I've just watched the recent Fallout 76 documentary by Noclip, and I must say, I want to play this game even less now. 

 

Most of my predictions on F76's game design priorities, and game design itself, have turned out to be true. Yes, it really is just an "entertain yourself" type of game. Most of the storytelling is environmental, so it's just bits and pieces, not even close to a cohesive story, the player may become invested into. Role playing system is reworked completely. And of course, griefing - even though Todd said, that they've been working on minimizing it, I haven't seen anything of this. More so, after this documentary, I can imagine even more possibilities for griefing.

 

I really don't want to reiterate the same things over and over, so if you are interested, read the article under the screenshot and comments as well.

 

 

Take a look at the extent and limitations for the Nexus mods of Elder Scrolls Online: Chat fixes and a mod to punch up the color.  No companion mods, no actual quest mods, no weapons mods, not even preadolescent Elf girls with animal ears!  

 

Very good point! Even though mods support is promised in the future, something tells me, that F76 will be very restrictive on what you can actually mod in it.

 

As a friend of mine said about Fallout 76: "This game has MG-42 in it, and I still don't want to even try playing it."



#10
MrJoseCuervo

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I noticed some people are running around with hair on fire but you guys dont have to frett. In this interview Todd Howard clearly states they will allow mods eventually. It will work by letting people use private servers to run mods through. So lets all just Tranquilo and be patient. All will be well.  :smile:

 

You haven't the first clue just how limited this non-game is going to be. And NO, there will be no Nexus style mods- you can take that to the bank.

 

But let's play the devil's advocate and say the opposite could be true. Fallout76 is a new lightweight land-first engine. Lousy for true towns or cities, but amateur modders found building things of this ambition impossible to do to quality anyway. The new engine has all new GPU rendering, unlike fallout 4 etc that still did tons of render work on the CPU.

 

The new engine has new multi-player netcode (wanted by modders for ever). Client-side serving (the beth master servers only track player progression and instance save states). And land first engine that finally allows vehicles to be coded properly (Todd BANS vehicles in Fallout, however, considering vehicles the sole domain of the Rage IP- otherwise he thinks the two IPs would be too similar).

 

The truth is that full on modders could literally make their own BETTER than Beth games using the toolset Fallout76 provides IF Beth were stupid enough to allow this. So Beth is not going to allow this, ever.

 

This is how bad the situation is. Beth has the creation club, and Fallout76 is mesh compatible (or meshes can easily be converted) with the old Fallout 4 engine. So day one Beth could have had cosmetic OBJECTS for Fallout76 on the CC (like chairs, lamps, etc) but they are NOT. Why? Why is even something as limited and 'safe' as this a problem Beth has yet to solve?

 

When Todd sez 'mods', he means the same micro-transaction nonsense that has ruined games from other publishers. He means break-apart 'sculptures' like that wind turbine you see broken apart during the monster attack in the promo video. He does not mean mods in the sense anyone here means mods. 

 

And for the logical reason I said. Cos unrestricted, Zenimax could NEVER allow a game construction kit like the toolset for Fallout76 to hit the community. It would literally mean that free community content would directly compete with paid for Beth games.

 

Todd sez no vehicles allowed in the Fallout universe (today's major interview). But this is the FIRST thing major modders would code into Fallout76- the first thing. Vehicles (and the 'economy' that allowed their construction) would revolutionise Fallout76. But Todd sez NO!!! And Todd is god, whether you like it or not. You think the lowly devs on the game that became Fallout76 across the last 4 years didn't scream for vehicles in their game? Obviously they did.

 

However their masters said NO- Todd said NO. But you think Todd is going to allow YOU to say "yes"? That is what nexus style mods in Fallout76 would mean. All of Todd's rotten decisions reversed. The community becoming god, not Todd.

 

You may say "wasn't that the case with Skyrim mods or Fallout mods?". No it was not. The difference was one of tech. The older engine was broken and clunky. Ambitious mods are so complex they work poorly for most people, and are just too complex for most people to even try to use. The nexus is a pure NERD commuinity- but the vast majority of nexus mods used by the majority are very trivial ones.

 

The new engine of Fallout-Rust changes this dynamic. Super sophisticated mods could be packaged so even the least skilled could use them. A consequence of tech improvement in Beth's codebase. Letting people freely mod Fallout76 would turn Fallout76 into the next UNITY or LUMBERYARD or UNREAL4. And Zenimax just cannot let this happen. 

 

Beth's horrid E3 conference, with its emphasis on ripping off people with mobile and casual crap exploiting the gambling addiction industry psychologists are employed to target, told you everything about the now and future Beth. The Doom IP (eternal) has been converted to "gaming as a service" as has Prey and Quake. I suspect that new Wolfenstein game will turn out to be the same. Mad Max 2 (I mean Rage 2) is only single player cos Avalance had essentially completed Mad Max 2 before WB declined to publish. Starfield, a title that was supposed to have been revealed at last year's E3, is clearly on indefinite hold.

 

Let me make a suggestion to all of you. LISTEN to Todd. He's been going out of his way to make clear the new direction and policy of Beth. LISTEN to when he states FACTS (not when he spews vague fanservice like "we MIGHT do x in the future"). Todd has stated a lot of FACTS about Fallout76- it is not his fault you have your fingers in you ears singing "lalala- I'm not listening".

 

At E3, Todd literally almost passed out in ecstacy when he refered to the total number of people who 'played' Fallout shelter- making a point of stating it was far more than all those people who BOUGHT and played every other proper Beth game. Take the hint people. That 100 million+ who 'played' shelter are Todd's new friends and target audience, not the 'loser' fans of the original Star Wars movies- er I mean the original fans of Fallout and Skyrim (note an industry trend here that joins Disney and Bethesda).

 

 

 

This guy gets it.





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