FalloutNV.esm has different FormIDs regarding what language you use?

[JustChill]

Hey there,

 

I've uploaded a translation of Project Nevada and other mods a while ago, where I found some odd stuff.

Surely I used the german version of "FalloutNV.esm" and that is what happend at some BASE RECORDs:

 

 

Project Nevada - Core.esm

 

 

 

 

A Game Setting is the ammo effect of the 2mm EC ammo regarding german FalloutNV.esm?

 

 

Project Nevada - Equipment.esm:

 

 

 

 

 

The FormID of 2 leveled items refer to Game Settings in german FalloutNV.esm.

 

Project Nevada - Rebalance Complete.esp (Extra Options):

 

 

 

 

8 leveled items refer to Game Settings in german FalloutNV.esm

 

Project Nevada - All DLC.esp:

 

 

 

 

Many leveled items refer to Game Settings in german FalloutNV.esm.

Actually I deleted these since they were ITMs of "Project Nevada - Rebalance Complete.esp".

As it is told that "Project Nevada - All DLC.esp" relies on a COMPLETE installation of Project Nevada (with all plugins), I thought it's not necessary to have the entries of "Project Nevada - Rebalance Complete.esp" again in the All DLC patch.

 

Interior Lighting Overhaul:

 

 

 

 

This one is described a bit better.

Here I had to search for that entry as FNVEdit said that there is a bad entry but not exactly where.

But I found it and after changing it back to normal, I realized that there are only small changes in placement.

May be a dirty edit, but I still left it inside with the correct ID now.

Again, this reference pointed to a Game Setting in german FalloutNV.esm.

 

 

 

 

 

Luckily, loading up mods in FNVEdit with german FalloutNV.esm and the mods which are wanted to be translated, will often result in tiny error messages with which you recognize the issue.

 

 

But why do these occur in the first place?

 

Do the master has different FormIDs regarding the language version?

 

 

This would be horrible. :sad:

I've tested to load the mods with the english FalloutNV.esm, I don't get any single error there so it seems the master is really different between english and german language. oO

At least I know why I love FNVEdit so much. Awesome program. Not just convenient but an awesome tool. :D

 

 

 

However, can anyone confirm this issue?

As it would bring way more trouble to translating mods as it already is a chore. :/

[JustChill]

Alright, it got confirmed:

https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/1077504-yukichigai-unofficial-patch-yup/?p=61164207

 

Holy cow, that sucks!

Luckily I switched to english version.

Yet if I plan to translate anything I'll make sure to have the german version installed again to check if my translation have issues.

FNVEdit is a life saver in that case. :D

[dubiousintent]

That is interesting information to learn, and unlikely to be recognized by most. Important not only for those attempting translations but also those using other language versions. I'll add that info to the "Troubleshooting" guide just as soon as I can figure out where best to place it.

 

Thanks for reporting the results of your investigation.

 

-Dubious-

[JustChill]

I am glad that I am helping.

 

Unfortunately I don't remember the exact error message in FNVEdit.

It wasn't a messagebox, rather one sentence in the message area on the right, directly when you load up the mods.

When "Loader finished" stands there, you've to scroll up and check obscure sentences.

I think it was something like "Leveled Item <FormID> in Project Nevada - Equipment.esm refers to Game Setting <FormID> in FalloutNV.esm".

Both FormIDs were identical.

 

Things may be worse if one FormID of a leveled item for example is identical to the FormID of another leveled item in FalloutNV.esm but still a different one.

I haven't checked any single record to match with FalloutNV.esm, rather those which were pointed out by FNVEdit.

 

 

Sandbox6 who is in charge of YUP said this:

 

 

Yep, unfortunately, each version of the game has completely different FormIDs for all records from 17b75a and above, which also affects all references to those records in all records below that too.

You can't just change the name to keep compatibility with other later-loading mods. It might sound like a good idea at first, but it would run the very real risk of unknowledgeable people attempting to run incompatible mods without even knowing it until something goes wrong, and then having no way to work out what is causing their issue and not knowing which mod is at fault.

 

 

Last paragraph stands for my concerns to have YUP plugins named differently for any language version.

I asked him if the reason for that was the FormID issue and he confirmed it. I can understand now why every plugin is named differently regarding which language version you download.

He simply wants to ensure that people are really using only the desired version not mixing with mods of other languages.

As that may end up bad.

It's awesome that he maintains and also takes care of so many different language versions, while there are issues with FormIDs.

I wonder if other translators (like for Mission Mojave) took this into account.

 

Translations which are changing many base game entries may end up with such issues. :sad:

 

 

Roy Batterian, the master himself also confirmed this issue on the same topic:

 

 

Different ESMs have different formids because Obsidian screwed up when patch v1.3 came out, it actually broke a ton of mods at the time. German version in particular (the no gore version) is quite different from all others, and generally isn't supported by many mods or things like jip_ln either because the exe is also different internally. These things just make it a real pain to maintain any mods, and if there is support at all count yourself lucky that someone took the time to do so.

 

 

It's a pitty, but it seems we've to live with it. Luckily I am definitely NOT using or supporting the german No-Gore version.

It's a pretty dumb version as the Ultimate Edition of the German landbased game still has the same No-Gore EXE, but it got switched to uncut again (as Ultimate Edition was allowed to be uncut for whatever reason).

Why didn't they simply use the austrian or swiss version, when they decided to allow gore again?

 

I am currently having the english version installed updating an english house mod. Maybe I'll look back into my translations, but beside of the issues I posted above I didn't receive any errors with FNVEdit.

Hopefully that means the other records are fine.

 

Interior Lighting Overhaul changes A LOT of the base game.

Interesting that there was only 1 issue. oO

[JustChill]

Hey, I actually posted some of the messages of FNVEdit on my Project Nevada translation comment section:

 

[00:01] Background Loader: Warning: Record [GMST:0017B7BB] in file FalloutNV.esm is being overridden by record [LVLI:0017B7BB] in file Project Nevada - Equipment-ENG.esm.
[00:01] Background Loader: Warning: Record [GMST:0017B7DA] in file FalloutNV.esm is being overridden by record [LVLI:0017B7DA] in file Project Nevada - Equipment-ENG.esm.

 

These messages appear in FNVEdit message area, when I load the original Project Nevada - Equipment.esm with a german (uncut) version of FalloutNV.esm.

 

Thanks to these messages I was able to correct the issues. :D

[dubiousintent]

Thanks for the additional clarification, especially the error messages. Added as "Issue: Regional (non English) version has different FormIDs" under the "Miscellaneous" section of the wiki "Fallout NV Mod Conflict Troubleshooting" guide.

 

Please let me know if I misunderstood anything.

 

-Dubious-

[JustChill]

Hey, everything sounds fine. :)

 

I've added some additional pictures as explanation. You may link to these either, but not entirely necessary.

It's just my way to find the correct FormID quickly. :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dubiousintent]

Thanks for the images. I copied and posted them to the Nexus Wiki site under your name to ensure they remain available and linked. They helped me realize there was a subtle mis-statement I have corrected.

 

-Dubious-

[JustChill]

Thank you.

Now we just have to hope that people will read and learn. XD

[Sandgeist]

I am having trouble finding some of the affected FormIDs. Is there a way to filter the affected entries without having to search for them in FNVEdit? Because especially under "CELL" it is very difficult and time consuming.