Ram Usage

[KennyMcCormick315]

Why does Vortex need 1.3 gigabytes of ram to do what NMM accomplishes using a third as much and FOMM accomplishes using less than 100mb worth?!

 

 

Also, why can't I manually sort load order? I put one new mod in, and yet I'm expected to let an unpredictable program sort 250+ plugins and potentially break my savegame instead of just dragging-and-dropping that one plugin to the end of the load order or simply right clicking it and saying 'load last'?

 

 

I'm liking the interface, but there's a LOT of work that needs done. Functionality...basic functionality that makes the program difficult to use for its primary task...is missing, and the ram usage is beyond excessive. Zero excuse for a mod manager to need 1.3 gigabytes of ram when it's sitting idle like that.

[rmm200]

Your system does sound - broken. With 93 mods active, my Vortex is taking 390MB. How many gb of mods are you running?

Second point - unlike MO, Vortex does not have to be running when you run the game. If you don't like the storage it takes - stop it.

For me, there is no basic functionality missing.

Edited July 22, 2018 by rmm200

[Grestorn]

That's one of the disadvantages of using a 'modern' programming environment, like electron/node.js, which is based on web technologies and a browser rendering engine (Chrome).

 

I'm don't want to start the discussion again, whether that was a good or bad decision. Tannin has explained their reasoning in great length and I understand many of his points. However, these technologies come with a price. One of them is the heavy load on resources.

 

But as rmm200 said, that's usually not a problem, since you can always shut down Votrex.

 

Anyway, no modern system should have trouble running a tool with a memory footprint of 1-2 GB. And also, even if you leave Vortex running in the background, this memory is not taken from your physical memory pool. So even with "just" 8GB, I don't think you'll feel any difference whether you leave it running in the background, maybe a tiny bit longer loading time for the game. With 16 GB or more, there's certainly no difference whatsoever.

[Tannin42]

a) There is a difference between how much memory a software needs and how much it uses. Vortex, in your case uses 1.3 GB, not sure why if it's idling as you say. Even on my Desktop PC with 32GB Memory it usually uses around 350 MB but it's most likely some caches or memory it hasn't freed yet because it didn't need to.

b) Allocating and freeing memory costs time and Chrome probably avoids garage collection (giving previously used memory blocks back to the OS) when there is no need. As long as your system as a whole doesn't run low on memory, why pay the performance price of freeing memory?

c) The Windows Memory Management is also very smart today. As long as you haven't disabled Virtual Memory your OS can "swap" out memory with no effective cost (copying the data happens in idle cycles so your system never waits for it). What that means is that even if Vortex needed 1.3GB that it couldn't give up, the moment another application, a game for example, needs the memory, the OS can free most of these 1.3GB at no performance penalty and without closing Vortex. Vortex may be a bit slow when you return to it but that's all.

 

So really: don't care so much about memory usage unless you actually have a problem with applications running out of memory. And when that happens, well, stop messing with the preconfigured Virtual Memory Settings because that should never happen in a modern OS. This isn't DOS.

[KennyMcCormick315]

a) There is a difference between how much memory a software needs and how much it uses. Vortex, in your case uses 1.3 GB, not sure why if it's idling as you say.

 

Well it certainly wasn't doing anything productive. I had gotten a veeeeery simple mod(The one that lets you skip those stupid memory levels in Far Harbor, to be specific) installed. It was literally just sitting there, idle, doing nothing.

 

b) Allocating and freeing memory costs time and Chrome probably avoids garage collection (giving previously used memory blocks back to the OS) when there is no need. As long as your system as a whole doesn't run low on memory, why pay the performance price of freeing memory?

 

 

I only have eight gigs of the stuff, and if I let Vortex keep using 1.3 gigs of ram while I run Fallout 4 I end up in a situation where my computer's literally unusable for 10-20 minutes after exiting the game either through alt-tab or by closing it.

 

I don't really see why Vortex needs so much ram to, effectively, put asterisks in a text file and shift specific lines within said file to specific places. If it was using 1.3 gigs of RAM to install a hefty mod I'd be fine with it, it has a valid reason to do so at that time and I'm not gonna be trying to run the game at the same time I'm installing a mod to the game, but if it's just sitting there in the background doing absolutely nothing I'd love for it to clean up after itself rather than render my computer a nearly-crashed unuseable mess for so long after the game closes. It's got a good 3-5 minutes to do so between the time I finish managing mods and the time I get in-game.

 

And no, adding more ram to my system isn't an option. As much as I'd love to, I can't afford to either get set of 4gb DDR2 sticks or replace mobo/proc/ram with something newer. Either option ends up costing me the better part of a paycheck that I simply can't spare. Gotta game on what I can afford, and what I can afford can't handle a mod manager using that much ram doing nothing.

 

 

What's scary is my rig isn't even in the bottom tenth percentile...

 

 

c) The Windows Memory Management is also very smart today.

 

 

Yeah, and that's probably the only reason why my computer doesn't outright crash or hang when I exit FO4. It does sort itself out...eventually.

 

 

As long as you haven't disabled Virtual Memory

 

 

Got 16 gigs allocated for that. Why disable the only feature that keeps my computer usable as a gaming machine?

your OS can "swap" out memory with no effective cost (copying the data happens in idle cycles so your system never waits for it).

 

 

Ahhh, what it'd be like to have idle CPU cycles for swapping things around...

 

 

Vortex may be a bit slow when you return to it but that's all.

 

 

If that was all I wouldn't care. But it's not just Vortex. It's my entire machine. Everything. Steam, Discord, Firefox, Thunderbird, it doesn't matter what's running, if I leave Vortex on while the game's running I'm effectively out of a PC for 20 minutes. As it is it's 5-10 minutes to recover with Vortex closed before the game starts.

 

 

 

So really: don't care so much about memory usage unless you actually have a problem with applications running out of memory.

 

 

I do, and yet at the same time I'm not even close to alone. There's gonna be people who try to mod FO4 on a craptop from 2008 using Vortex, and if I'm having problems with the excessive RAM usage they're gonna be in for one hell of a shock...

 

 

And when that happens, well, stop messing with the preconfigured Virtual Memory Settings

 

 

And I haven't done so. Now can we stop falsely accusing me of messing with settings I haven't touched and reconsider why Vortex doesn't clean up after itself when it's done doing things? I may not sound like the most articulate person in the world...mostly because I'm not...but I'm not here to shout at you or pass blame or whatever, I'm providing feedback and venting a little frustration.

 

It irks me to no end to see an app doing such a simple task requiring so much of the machine it's running on and I figured, hey, Vortex is still so early in development that there's a slim chance mentioning this might just get that sorted out!

 

 

 

But as rmm200 said, that's usually not a problem, since you can always shut down Votrex.

 

 

I shouldn't have to shut down and restart my mod manager every single time I start the game, though. I don't have to do that with NMM and I don't have to do that with FOMM when I'm working on New Vegas. There's times where I have to do a lot of troubleshooting involving a lot of game starts, and having to close and re-open the mod manager each and every time is a massive pain in the rear.

 

 

 

 

Anyway, no modern system should have trouble running a tool with a memory footprint of 1-2 GB. And also, even if you leave Vortex running in the background, this memory is not taken from your physical memory pool. So even with "just" 8GB, I don't think you'll feel any difference whether you leave it running in the background, maybe a tiny bit longer loading time for the game. With 16 GB or more, there's certainly no difference whatsoever.

 

 

And yet if I leave Vortex on while the game's running I can feel a 15% drop in framerate when the game's loading things, constant pop-in so severe I can stand in one place for over five minutes before the assets around me even load in, and upon exiting the game through either alt-tab or through closing/quitting/CTD renders my system totally unuseable for a good 15-20 minutes.

 

It hurts when you've got a mod manager using up >1/8 of your ram for seemingly no reason.

 

Your system does sound - broken.

 

 

I will admit my system ain't the happiest thing in the world, but hell, there's gonna be a significant portion of the userbase that try to use Vortex to mod FO4 on a >10 year old laptop. And it's for the same reason I'm still running an AMD tricore, 8gb of DDR2, a 1tb Greenpower drive ripped out of a portable harddrive enclosure ten years ago, and a 320gb SATA-I hard drive from the early oughts: It's all they can afford. If I can't even run Vortex and the game at the same time....god save their souls. And their processors.

 

 

 

 

 

How many gb of mods are you running?

 

 

Not sure about GB, but I'm tickling the hard 255 plugin cap and I've got 20-30 more mods running that don't have plugins associated with them. And a couple of .esl mods as well. There's a LOT of mods in my load order, but here's the rub: NMM doesn't need anywhere near as much RAM to manage that same exact load order. I can leave it running in the background with minimal effect. Not so with Vortex.

 

 

 

Second point - unlike MO, Vortex does not have to be running when you run the game.

 

 

Which is a hard dealbreaker for me. I'll flat refuse to use a mod manager that has to be running when the game is in order to work properly.

 

 

Rather interesting to hear that MO does do that. Add that to the tally of reasons I don't use it, I guess.

 

 

If you don't like the storage it takes - stop it.

 

 

Or perhaps provide feedback while the app is still in such an early alpha state that there's a chance the RAM usage can be pared down?

 

 

I may sound a bit rough and abrasive, and that's because...well, a lot of frustration in pretty much every aspect of my life. And a total lack of social graces. Between those two factors it just isn't in me to sugarcoat anything or make it sound like I'm not angry. And for that I do apologize. My intentions aren't so much to just shout at Tannin, they're to try to nudge the RAM usage back into the realm of reasonable.

 

I shouldn't have to close Vortex to start FO4 every time. It's not too bad when I'm only installing one mod, like I was last night, and hell most of the time I won't even launch it at all. But if I'm installing a large quantity of mods, or if I'm troubleshooting a gamebreaking issue, I'm going to be starting the game and closing it 5 minutes later only to tinker with load order or reinstall something or whatever. And that's when having to close Vortex every time the game starts is gonna be a massive pain in the rear.

 

 

 

For me, there is no basic functionality missing.

 

 

For me there is. I have too many plugins in my load order that LOOT doesn't know what to do with for one reason or another. I've tried it in every 3D Fallout game released so far, and every single time it's broken the game so badly I had to go in and manually resort my entire load order. If I'm gonna have to resort everything by hand anyway why bother having LOOT sort it in the first place?

 

 

It's entirely possible that functionality is in one of the many plugins I removed from Vortex itself just to get it to run properly in the first place. I had the issue where going into Settings crashed the app outright and right now I have a skeleton crew of plugins running in Vortex. If that's the case, let me know what the plugin adding that functionality in is named and I'll swap it out for the one that powers LOOT.

[Tannin42]

Well it certainly wasn't doing anything productive. I had gotten a veeeeery simple mod(The one that lets you skip those stupid memory levels in Far Harbor, to be specific) installed. It was literally just sitting there, idle, doing nothing.

You're ignoring half of the point I made. Why should I go through the trouble of giving you detailed replies if you ignore half of it?

 

I only have eight gigs of the stuff, and if I let Vortex keep using 1.3 gigs of ram while I run Fallout 4 I end up in a situation where my computer's literally unusable for 10-20 minutes after exiting the game either through alt-tab or by closing it.

alt-tab doesn't close the game, it leaves the game running in the background and obviously the game isn't going to give up the memory it needs while still running.

If the game remains unusable for 10 minutes after you closed the game then you have a hardware defect or your hard disk is really a RAID of 3.5" floppies because even if all your applications have been displaced from memory to Virtual Memory, what hard disk takes 10 Minutes to read <=8GB of data? Even a slow HDD shouldn't need more than maybe a minute or 2.

 

I don't really see why Vortex needs so much ram to

again, you confuse "need" and "use". Vortex will run fine on a system with 1 GB of memory, using less memory there but causing more I/O and more CPU usage.

Chrome (used in the Vortex backend) like every half-decent modern application uses memory as a cache, not a limited resource, to run faster. And unused cache space is wasted.

Look at other applications, my Firefox currently uses 1.8 GB of RAM with 6 tabs open, yet it would also run fine with way more than 6 open tabs on a smartphone with 1GB of RAM.

Why? Because it can run faster if it uses more RAM but it doesn't need it!

 

your OS can "swap" out memory with no effective cost (copying the data happens in idle cycles so your system never waits for it).

Of course your system has idle cycles unless you're permanently doing some heavy, well parallelizable calculation like prime numbers in the background at all times across all cores your system will find time for this.

 

If that was all I wouldn't care. But it's not just Vortex. It's my entire machine.

How is it a Vortex problem then? Vortex, like all those other applications gets swapped out if necessary so it can't be the memory Vortex uses that makes other applications run slow on "recovery", can it?

 

I shouldn't have to shut down and restart my mod manager every single time I start the game, though.

But if your RAM is so tight and if running out is such a massive problem on your system for some reason, wouldn't you have to anyway?

I mean, NMM may use less memory but it's still a couple hundred megs, no? And your Firefox you mentioned certainly uses more memory than Vortex, no?

 

But seriously, if those 10-20 minutes are not hyperbole on your part you should check your hard disk health, there is no way a healthy HDD, even a very old one, would take that long to swap in < 8GB of RAM.

[GlassDeviant]

10 year old

Laptop

8GB

AMD

3-core (which is actually a broken quad core with one core that failed QC certification)

So...your problem isn't Vortex, m8.

Vortex runs in 4 threads on my system and uses a total of 620 GB across all of them, managing only Fallout 4 with 169 active mods (and 1 inactive).

Perhaps running 255 plugins plus 20-30 non-plugin mods is going a bit overboard when you have such limited system resources and are well aware of that fact.

No offense intended, but you are clearly the architect of your own problem. It would benefit you to learn to work within your limitations, something I learned when I became stricken with a disability severe enough to force me to rely on social assistance to merely live, let alone engage in leisure activities such as playing games.

[RolloWolff7]

I had to clean my memory, Vortex at first when it starts it uses less Ram, but afterward it stays on for awhile it begins to use more and even freezes and it is slow. So then this happen with Mod Orgnaizer 2 as well, and MO2 also locks up the whole screen when left on for a long time. I think it maybe needs to be refreshed or something because it does become very slow after being left on for awhile. Then when a game is playing and it crashes due to my memory card or wattman constantly crashing, Vortex still says the game is running and that causes Vortex to behave slowly or freeze. This is just my expereinces with it, but for the memory to be so high maybe it needs to be cleaned.

[Guest deleted34304850]

how do you "clean" memory?

[rmm200]

This is maybe the oldest Necro I have seen. The thread was over a year old.

 

The answer to your question is simple. Stop Vortex before you start your game. Tada! Vortex is using no storage.

And run Microsoft memory diagnostics over night. Your computer is sick.