Vortex Load order

[sinsoft76]

Ive got a question about load order. I understand that loot is a core part of vortex and works in the background. vortex doesn't have a grab and drag feature like MO2 on its left pane and I do under stand how vortex uses the conflict rules load this after that. the question I have is vortex setup in a way that a person can just randomly throw mods at it of different types and vortex will put it in some sort of load order on its mods page. like bug fixes at the top and meshes mid way down. every video ive seen using and explaining how vortex works only installs like one or two mods. what about 200. without a drag and drop feature if I decide to install a random mod that is supposed to be in the middle of the load order. what am I to do at that point.

[Tannin42]

First of all, please understand that loot is used to order plugins, not mods. Mods are also ordered using rules, but these affect which files get to overwrite other files, essentially it's the replacement for the NMM dialog that would up during mod install that allowed you to overwrite files, except now you can change it at any time without reinstalling.

The mod order doesn't affect the plugin order or vice versa. I'm not sure if you understood this, sorry if this explanation was unnecessary but it's a common cause of confusion and it's important for me you are precise as to what you're talking about or my explanation could cause even more confusion.

 

You should assume the "mod order" (mods page) to be random unless you provide rules. Now with mods that don't have files in common the order doesn't matter but for everything else you should provide rules.

 

Now finally, you say "I decide to install a random mod that is supposed to be in the middle of the load order" - The question is illogical in the core assumption. No mod (or plugin) needs to be in the middle. No mod or plugin needs to be at the bottom of the load order or at the top of the load order. The absolute position of a mod doesn't mean anything.

This is no offense to anyone but every tutorial, every mod install instruction you've read that told you to "put the mod at the bottom of the load order" - they weren't wrong but they were simplifications.

What you do at this point is very simple: you click the red lightning bolt for each mod that has one and then for every conflict decide which mod goes first or last, until all lightning bolts are green. And then you're done and do not concern yourself with how the absolute ordering of the list looks like.

[sinsoft76]

Ok thank you for clarifying that part for me and yes I'm fully aware of how loot works. Iv only been modding Skyrim for a short time on pc. Started on Xbox hince the visual load ordering issue. But yes I believe now I'll feel a little more confident in what I'm looking at. Thanks for the reply.

[sopmac45]

@ sinsoft76 … what I do is exactly what Tannin told you :

 

- Install mods and resolve rules as they appear when install them ( I basically choose to "load after" the last mod installed that is conflicting with other mods already installed … )

- make sure that you have auto-sort ON in the Plugins tab

- Once you are done installing all of your mods :

- place patches in the Default Patching Group in the Plugins Tab

- at this point, if you want to, you can press sort the order or leave it alone

- play your game

 

… I do not really bother anymore about plugins load order because I simply trust Vortex and to be honest, I have not had any problem at all by following my above process, which I have followed by the letter, on both of my games : Skyrim and Fallout 4. :cool:

[Zanderat]

One point missed here, though. You CAN drag and drop in the plugins tab. The OP specifically mentioned that he couldn't.

[GlassDeviant]

One point missed here, though. You CAN drag and drop in the plugins tab. The OP specifically mentioned that he couldn't.

 

Umm...how? I can't drag and drop, the only thing I can do is click and drag the icons in the Dependencies tab to set a user preference.

[capella6707]

 

… I do not really bother anymore about plugins load order because I simply trust Vortex and to be honest, I have not had any problem at all by following my above process, which I have followed by the letter, on both of my games : Skyrim and Fallout 4. :cool:

 

^ This - Occasionally I'll have to resolve a "red lightning" conflict, but that's it. I just let Vortex do it's thing and with over 200+ mods, I have a rock-solid game.

[ehf111]

When I first started using Vortex I wondered about the same thing ... over 200 mods, plugins galore and a self researched load order heavily reliant on mod authors advice and lots of experience. NMM and MO are definitely "some assembly required by user" tools. You load in a bunch of mods, use author's advice, your experience, and the output of ancillary tools (xEdit, Loot etc), generate your merge patch cross your fingers and launch SKSE. I think that many times mod authors are conservative with load order advice. They simply want to avoid conflict and maximize user experience. But I'm sure that if your collection of mods is like mine you have many that advise "must be at bottom of load order". These tend to crop up if the mod is aimed at a very popular spot that has tons of available mods and a very high likelihood of several mods looking for the same resources. So the safe bet is just put it at the bottom. Well, they can't all be at the end.

 

Then I started using Vortex and quickly realized that those mods did not really have to be at the bottom, they just need to be in the right order in relation to mods competing for the same files. On day one of my Vortex experience I could not wrap my head around the funny line diagram on the plugin page in the "Manage Groups" tab at the top but I know believe it ties directly to this load order topic. I've just started to experiment with it and it makes a lot of sense. It seems to visually depict this concept of correct arrangement of related mods within a group ... then it seems to suggest the best general arrangement of the groups. In the past I had several mods that would instantly CTD Skyrim unless at the very bottom of the NMM load order. Well, now they are all over the load order and working great and instead of a bunch of disjointed tools it seems as though they are targeting integration of those tools with far less user expertise required.

 

I think the bottom line is this, like most new innovation it will require new thinking and approach. The development team is challenged to bring us the future of mod management not the same old technology in a flashy new wrapper. To me, Vortex is a complete departure from the previous generation of tools that were largely conduits used to funnel content into a game with a healthy dose of "buyer beware". I view Vortex as more of a problem solving tool ... and an efficient one at that. I've never been able to solve problems as quickly as I can with Vortex. To me, Vortex is on track to be a gigantic leap forward ... most impressive indeed.

[AugustaCalidia]

 

I think the bottom line is this, like most new innovation it will require new thinking and approach. The development team is challenged to bring us the future of mod management not the same old technology in a flashy new wrapper. To me, Vortex is a complete departure from the previous generation of tools that were largely conduits used to funnel content into a game with a healthy dose of "buyer beware". I view Vortex as more of a problem solving tool ... and an efficient one at that. I've never been able to solve problems as quickly as I can with Vortex. To me, Vortex is on track to be a gigantic leap forward ... most impressive indeed.

Amen! In my experience, Vortex handles load order issues better than any mod management tool that I've ever used. And I've use them all, starting with OBMM and Wrye Bash. In fact, Vortex is the quickest, easiest, and most efficient mod manager that I've ever used.

[capella6707]

Then I started using Vortex and quickly realized that those mods did not really have to be at the bottom, they just need to be in the right order in relation to mods competing for the same files. On day one of my Vortex experience I could not wrap my head around the funny line diagram on the plugin page in the "Manage Groups" tab at the top but I know believe it ties directly to this load order topic. I've just started to experiment with it and it makes a lot of sense. It seems to visually depict this concept of correct arrangement of related mods within a group ... then it seems to suggest the best general arrangement of the groups. In the past I had several mods that would instantly CTD Skyrim unless at the very bottom of the NMM load order. Well, now they are all over the load order and working great and instead of a bunch of disjointed tools it seems as though they are targeting integration of those tools with far less user expertise required.

 

I haven't played with the Groups diagram. I'm a very "visual" learner, typically, but that diagram looks somewhat confusing to me right now and so far my logic has been, "well, everything's working fine, so why mess with the Groups diagram."

 

I think the bottom line is this, like most new innovation it will require new thinking and approach. The development team is challenged to bring us the future of mod management not the same old technology in a flashy new wrapper. To me, Vortex is a complete departure from the previous generation of tools that were largely conduits used to funnel content into a game with a healthy dose of "buyer beware". I view Vortex as more of a problem solving tool ... and an efficient one at that. I've never been able to solve problems as quickly as I can with Vortex. To me, Vortex is on track to be a gigantic leap forward ... most impressive indeed.

 

I 100% agree with this. Unfortunately, I've seen all too much naysaying and criticism regarding Vortex from people who obviously just haven't simply taken the time to learn how it works. I've noticed that a lot of them are MO/MO2 users. I'm not putting down them or MO - I've used MO and MO2 before. Tannin himself has said that there is a place for MO - for people who dig deep into the mods down to the file level. But for the vast majority of people who mod the games that Vortex supports, MO is overkill and Vortex is really the best way to go.