Can Custom-Packed BSAs lead to Better Performance/more headroom for modding?

[fftfan]

So I've become a big fan of using the BA2 format for significant performance benefits on Fallout 4, specifically the better performance you can attain by packing up loose files into BA2s rather than just simply having a huge quantity of loose files loaded from Data/Textures/. I've recently bought Skyrim Special Edition. I vaguely recalled testing BSA format way back for Oblivion and finding it didn't appear to benefit performance(Though I was on very low end & no SSD) at least not to any noticeable extent, though I was doing so with the basically hopeless intention of trying help my system be able to use ENB in general gameplay at a reasonable FPS. I've recently read a very informative comment on a Fallout 4 texture pack stating that packing textures BA2 would only, or at least mainly would offer the potential performance benefits when a specific compression type is used for the texture files.

Source post by Gambit77
It's not a myth. With loose files to load a texture's mipmap it has to load the entire texture into vram and then use the smaller mip map. With texture files in a ba2 archive the engine can load the needed mip map into vram without loading the whole texture. Caveat, the texture has to be encoded in the correct compressions, bc7 for diffuse, bc5 for normal & specs to get this performance gain.

So as a result of learning this info, this leads me to ask if there are any similar rules for BSA archives in Skyrim in order to enhance performance?

I think the biggest thing for me with SSE modding at least when starting out fresh & aside from Bug Fixes is going to be using texture replacers for everything I can find, the 4K option whenever it exists. So far I've downloaded over 20GB of mods, mostly of texture packs. So as a newcomer I am particularly wondering if I can gain performance benefits in order to allow for even more potential modding through any similar methods as when we use Archive2 on Fallout 4 to pack up textures & other loose files into a - Main.ba2 & a - Textures.ba2. I'm still mostly playing Fallout but have a few random ideas for stuff to try out when I get more into Skyrim. It's going to be a pretty gradual process getting everything sorted out, testing it to ensure a well functioning load order, readjusting things before I jump in on a playthrough. I have heard of people running 1200 plugins on Skyrim(through ESL conversions or I assume merging), so evidently people mod their Skyrim installs much more thoroughly than their Fallout 4 installs. Texture enhancements will be the first thing since I don't yet have to worry about load order yet for them even if I were to use 100 or more texture packs, only need to determine priority for any overlapping textures.

One concern performance wise: Is that it seemed to me that most particularly for Skyrim itself seemingly out of any game, ENB is able to have the most profound effects in terms of improving visuals. I saw pretty dramatic enhancement when I experimented with them around 2012, and I think that's when ENB itself may have been pretty new. So I'm planning to get really into ENB on my SSE install, I'll likely use PRT - Photorealistic Tamriel as that seems to possibly be the current ENB preset king. Honestly this mod page is one of the things that gets me a bit excited for getting into Skyrim, since the images show that people have had great success getting Skyrim to look good.

Can I use a similar method as BiRaitBec Modlist (for Fallout 4) by unpacking the SSE texture archives, creating a fully customized Textures folder configuration and then finally packing it all into newly re-created Skyrim - Textures.BSAs? Will these measures perhaps be unnecessary for Skyrim Special Edition on a GTX 1080, i7 7700, 24GB, SSD, etc? Though even if it is, this could still be potentially helpful to know for playing on a low end PC.

[QuagaarWarrior]

Not familiar with fallout 4 modding practices so cant draw any comparisons. Also not a BSA expert.

What I have found is that using BSAs gives me less flexibility when choosing textures I like as loose files will always overwrite them.

Also some ESPs are only included in a mod to load the BSA. Unpacking the BSA allows you to delete the ESP.

I havent noticed any difference in performance between loose files and BSA equivalent

I assume you will be using mod organiser 2 when embarking on your retexture mission? I recommend it as it gives you the greatest flexibility to choose textures by using the hide files option to mix and match

[fftfan]

Not familiar with fallout 4 modding practices so cant draw any comparisons. Also not a BSA expert.

 

I havent noticed any difference in performance between loose files and BSA equivalent

I assume you will be using mod organiser 2 when embarking on your retexture mission? I recommend it as it gives you the greatest flexibility to choose textures by using the hide files option to mix and match

Yes, I am using Mod Organizer(Though I only installed ~10 mods so far, just stuff like USSEP, ECE, other bug fixes). I am an SSE noob, bought SSE on August 8th but it's really evident to me that Skyrim will demand that I install far more mods than I needed to with Fallout 4. Due to my previously bad specs I also largely never got into the original Skyrim, so I am pretty out of the loop with Skyrim modding practices. I'm currently at about 200 plugins on Fallout 4 and very happy, meanwhile I have heard on discords people say they use 1000+ plugins plus have heard of other guys using 1200+ plugins for SSE. I previously found MO2 a little intimidating as someone used to using NMM but I am convinced it'll be necessary for SSE. I anticipate a lot of time of just installing & testing mods before really getting into playing SSE.

 

In Fallout 4 the BA2 archive format allows for better loading of textures, it allows for leveraging VRAM to improve performance. I selected GTX 1080 in part because VRAM is very important to Fallout 4 performance. As the engine is really old, this is one means they used to allow for Fallout 4 to go further passed the original intentions for the engine. Anecdotes have suggested that the previous BSA format from Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim/Special Edition actually has the opposite effect, where loading textures from them apparently may worsen performance relative to loose files only.

 

That's gonna be really helpful for selecting textures. Going to be strange TBH to use loose files when I am used to packing them all up always being the best route.

 

What I have found is that using BSAs gives me less flexibility when choosing textures I like as loose files will always overwrite them.

Also some ESPs are only included in a mod to load the BSA. Unpacking the BSA allows you to delete the ESP.

True on both of these.

[kthompsen]

This is news to me, but I tend to do this already just for the sake of neatness (at least mods with tons of loose files, like SMIM)... plus it allows me to customize configurations for later use. edit: Not sure what compression method I'm using now. I just use whatever is default in the CK.

Edited August 20, 2018 by kthompsen

[Deleted3897072User]

You experience with FO4 may be leading you astray.

 

The advantage of Skyrim bsa over loose files is that they load faster when the game starts. Thereafter, it does not affect performance at all.

 

There is no advantage in unpacking bsa's to combine them into a larger one. You may have to do it if you merge esp's because you need to keep the bsa's in step wth the esp's (they have to have the same names), but otherwise it gains you nothing in terms of performance.

 

If multiple mods overwrite the same texture, the last one to be loaded wins and the previous ones are ignored - they simply don't get loaded and have no impact on performace.

 

There is a limit of about 250 mods. To add more than that you need to merge them, which is not difficult to do (with the right tools) but needs to be done thoughtfully to avoid breaking things with unwanted interactions.

 

Hope this helps.

[fftfan]

You experience with FO4 may be leading you astray.

 

The advantage of Skyrim bsa over loose files is that they load faster when the game starts. Thereafter, it does not affect performance at all.

 

If multiple mods overwrite the same texture, the last one to be loaded wins and the previous ones are ignored - they simply don't get loaded and have no impact on performace.

Great point, yeah those who I had previously heard from about the loose file being superior performance vs BSAs are also mainly Fallout 4 players. Could absolutely be down to placebo effect given that Fallout 4's BA2 format can improves performance significantly compared to tons of loose files in Textures & Meshes. Interesting, so the ones that aren't loaded don't affect performance? Doesn't notably waste resources for PC to parse through the archives and the game does have smart way of excluding the unneeded/redundant ones from having to be loaded in RAM/VRAM? Have you found the impact on startup load times to be potentially significant, perhaps if I eventually end up with a large SSE game install(My FO4 is over 100GB, after cleaning out some stuff)? I am on an 850 EVO 500GB SSD which is mainly for Windows, Fallout 4, SSE and some active use odds n ends.

 

There is a limit of about 250 mods. To add more than that you need to merge them, which is not difficult to do (with the right tools) but needs to be done thoughtfully to avoid breaking things with unwanted interactions.

I've been thinking about ESL conversions mostly but that is a good point. Definitely going to be something that's really important to get into and figure out. I haven't gotten into playing the game yet and only browsed SSE for like 5 hours but I probably have 100+ plugins downloaded and set in a folder for downloaded SSE mods though I intend to try to do fully proper MO2 style setup. It's fast becoming apparent that about 250 will be insufficient in the long term.

 

Hope this helps.

Thanks a lot! This stuff is pretty important to know

[QuagaarWarrior]

If you arent installing the mods straight away it may be worth tracking them rather than downloading them. That way you can go back to you tracked mods and download the latest version.

[fftfan]

If you arent installing the mods straight away it may be worth tracking them rather than downloading them. That way you can go back to you tracked mods and download the latest version.

That's a good point, also I just noticed that they do separate by game on Tracking List. Was a bit concerned if it might throw everything together which would quickly get messy.