Vortex for Linux!

[CentauriSoldier]

Yes, please, that would be epic!

[XJDHDR]

Look people. Dark0ne and Tannin have already said that they do not have the manpower to add Linux support to Vortex and that the source code is available. Unless you want to contribute your time and expertise towards this, voting is going to do nothing.

 

Additionally:

I just switched. If you support Linux, I will be able to use your tools/games. If you do not, I may be able to find a workaround. If neither option is available, I will not be a customer, and sometimes that will make me sad, but my desire to use Linux is stronger than my desire to use any one product or service that runs on Windows, so I hope you can accommodate this fast growing potential customer base. In fact, consider it retention, because now that I've moved to Linux, I can't use your tools anymore, so the lack of Linux support has lost you a customer. I have paid for your sub and would do so again when I needed it, if it was Linux friendly.

Are you trying to threaten the staff into doing your bidding?

Also, according to Steam's surveys, Linux is growing (and shrinking) by fractions of 1% per year. That is not, in any way, a fast growing market.

[humpywolf]

No one should be threatening anyone obviously, and everyone should be urged to contribute, full stop.

 

Getting into a discussion about the percentages of Linux Steam survey results changing is going to lead no where, but last I heard the Linux account base in in the millions and increasing. This was based on leaked account statistics, but we've heard nothing since then about actual numbers of players, only percentages. It's easy to show that the percentage change at one point recently was due to an incoming flood of Chinese Windows users. That largely helped to decrease the platform percentage for Linux, but that obviously doesn't mean player count decreased.

 

All that having been said, don't expect the "yes please!" to stop, that's just the nature of the Internet. Just encourage them to help if they're able to do so. Respect should go in both directions.

Edited May 19, 2019 by humpywolf

[Guest deleted34304850]

not sure where this has come from, but that quoted post is from september 2018, so it's somewhat dated. why necro it?

[1SupremeBeing]

The reason we have posted here to show our support for Linux is so that anyone considering developing a Linux version of Vortex, or making a new mod manager for Linux, knows that there is a want and need for that product. We aren't trying to force anyone to do anything, and the guy who mentioned paying for products in the past wasn't making a threat. He meant that many Linux users would be willing to pay for a mod manager that actually worked on Linux. We aren't trying to cause problems or stir up trouble. We are just trying to let the modding and game development communities know that there are millions of us now, and we are gamers.

[XJDHDR]

The reason we have posted here to show our support for Linux is so that anyone considering developing a Linux version of Vortex, or making a new mod manager for Linux, knows that there is a want and need for that product. ... We are just trying to let the modding and game development communities know that there are millions of us now, and we are gamers.

There are already 7 pages of posts in this thread alone where people have already done that and Dark0ne has already given his answer: It's not going to happen unless someone volunteers to do it.

 

In short:

Hi Dark0ne, I would like to know which communication channel is ideal for support? I would love to try out getting Vortex to work.

 

So far, I am stuck on wholocks which should just be "lsof" or "lslock" in Linux.

Posts like this are good whereas:

Yes, please, that would be epic!

This is beating a dead horse.

 

We aren't trying to force anyone to do anything, ... We aren't trying to cause problems or stir up trouble.

I would suggest you speak for yourself. I don't know if you've seen the dark side of Linux but I have and it is hideously ugly.

 

, and the guy who mentioned paying for products in the past wasn't making a threat. He meant that many Linux users would be willing to pay for a mod manager that actually worked on Linux.

I don't know where you got this idea from. Mcdeviant didn't say anything about other Linux users, it was all about himself.

His post can be summarised as: "Do what I tell you to or else!" That is most definitely a threat.

Nothing in his post can be summarised as, "Linux users would pay for a mod manager." His entire post was about how he was going to stop paying Nexus.

And "many" Linux users? In this thread, there is not a single post here that said anything about paying. The only thing anyone has said about money was Mcdeviant withdrawing his financial support. Again, I recommend that you speak for yourself.

 

 

Getting into a discussion about the percentages of Linux Steam survey results changing is going to lead no where, but last I heard the Linux account base in in the millions and increasing. This was based on leaked account statistics, but we've heard nothing since then about actual numbers of players, only percentages. It's easy to show that the percentage change at one point recently was due to an incoming flood of Chinese Windows users. That largely helped to decrease the platform percentage for Linux, but that obviously doesn't mean player count decreased.

Surveys and statistics are always going to be better than hearsay. Also, I'm not talking about recent changes or points in time. I'm talking about trends.

In early 2014, Valve separated the clumped together numbers for OSs into the Windows, OSX and Linux categories. At that time, Linux's install base was recorded at around 1.26%. From there, it dropped and dropped until 2017 where it reached around 0.80% where it has hovered since. It currently sits at 0.81% which is up by 0.09% since October 2018.

 

All that having been said, don't expect the "yes please!" to stop, that's just the nature of the Internet. Just encourage them to help if they're able to do so. Respect should go in both directions.

They have as much right to post "Yes, please!" posts as I have to tell them that they are wasting their time.

[friesnadrink]

I won't give up and I won't let Debbie downers like XJDHDR get to me.

Just because Tannin and Dark0ne have not assigned any priority to Vortex for Linux yet doesn't mean they never will. They never said they were against it and Tannin even admitted to trying to compile a Linux version.

There are many talented people in the modding community and I intend to take a look at the code and see if I might be able to contribute myself.

Also, I'd bet that the percentage of Linux users is at least a little if not significantly higher among the modding community than it is with regards to Steam at large. Not to mention there are individuals who may simply be waiting for the support to come first before making the switch. I was one of them, until I found out how successful Proton has been.

 

I appreciate everyone who has made this want known. More support means we're more likely to see it done in the future.

Keep up the good work all.

[XJDHDR]

I won't give up and I won't let Debbie downers like XJDHDR get to me.

That logical fallacy is an Ad Hominem and Straw Man Argument. Calling me names is not going to refute anything I've said, nor is falsely accusing me of posting with the intent to cause misery.

 

 

Just because Tannin and Dark0ne have not assigned any priority to Vortex for Linux yet doesn't mean they never will. They never said they were against it and Tannin even admitted to trying to compile a Linux version.

That is another Straw Man Argument. There is nothing in my posts which equates to "we are opposed to Linux ports of Vortex." Please re-read my comments because your claim can't be found in statements like: "It's not going to happen unless someone volunteers to do it."

 

There are many talented people in the modding community and I intend to take a look at the code and see if I might be able to contribute myself.

Then by all means, do so.

 

Also, I'd bet that the percentage of Linux users is at least a little if not significantly higher among the modding community than it is with regards to Steam at large.

But where is the evidence? It is easy to think of plausible sounding arguments and present them as fact. It is much harder to prove that this is the case. And this is the thing: If Dark0ne and Tannin want to dedicate more than an insignificant amount of time towards making Vortex work on Linux they need proof, not stories.

 

Let's look at the evidence we have and see if there is a basis for your hypothesis: https://www.nexusmods.com/games

The top three games on Nexus Mods in terms of number of mods uploaded and download count is Skyrim, Fallout 4 and Fallout: New Vegas. All three of these are Windows only and require Steam. Thus, if you want to (legally) mod these games, you have to have Steam.

The next two games are Oblivion and Fallout 3. While these two don't require Steam, the peak of their modding days are long past. I know that Oblivion's modding community greatly diminished once Skyrim was released. Thus, the vast majority of mods for those two were created long before Linux was associated with gaming.

The other games Nexus supports don't even come close to the file count and (in many cases) download numbers of those 5. The first game in that list which supports Linux is Stardew Valley, with less than a quarter of FO3's numbers alone (and it's unclear what percentage of those numbers are Linux users).

 

Thus, unless you want to argue that there is a significant number of pirates on Linux developing mods for those games, there is no basis for claiming that there is a significant discrepancy between Steam's and Nexus Mod's OS share. In fact, there may even be a basis for arguing that Nexus Mods users are more likely to use Windows than Steam users.

 

Not to mention there are individuals who may simply be waiting for the support to come first before making the switch. I was one of them, until I found out how successful Proton has been.

Again, where is the proof? It is easy to invent ad-hoc rescuing devices to save a cherished hypothesis from falsification. Much harder to establish it as fact.

 

I, for one, use Windows as my daily driver because it is polished, just works and is more stable for gaming than Linux, even with Proton taken into account. While I have a few small servers that use Linux and keeps some VMs for the handful of things Linux does better for me, I am not interested in making it my daily driver. When I try use Linux, I encounter issues and unpolished bits which make me think, "Why deal with this on Linux when Windows already solved this problem years ago?" One example is that the Windows File Manager has supported navigation using the mouse's back and forward buttons for years. I have yet to find a file manager on Linux that does as well.

 

To be frank, posts like this are what I was talking about when I mentioned the Dark Side of Linux. The large number of Linux fans who somewhat (or outright) turn OS choice into a political matter. While yours is a more tame example, I have encountered some really nasty Linux fans. For example, Scrawl who announced that OpenMW would become Linux only in revenge for Microsoft buying GitHub (yes, punish Windows and OSX users for something they had nothing to do with) then rage-quit when people dared to disagree with his views. Or this gem where a Linux fan accused Bethesda game modders of being evil because they spend their free time modding proprietary games instead of contributing to something open source. Or more recently where a Linux fan on YouTube labelled me a Microsoft Shill and Idiot (amongst other things) when I dared ask him to prove his claims and refute his faulty ones.

 

I appreciate everyone who has made this want known. More support means we're more likely to see it done in the future.

 

Keep up the good work all.

Again, voting is not going to make a Linux port happen. Only volunteer work will do that.

[friesnadrink]

 

I won't give up and I won't let Debbie downers like XJDHDR get to me.

That logical fallacy is an Ad Hominem and Straw Man Argument. Calling me names is not going to refute anything I've said, nor is falsely accusing me of posting with the intent to cause misery.

 

I never accused you of "intent to cause misery." Since that statement was never an argument to begin with it is not subject to fallacies.

 

 

Just because Tannin and Dark0ne have not assigned any priority to Vortex for Linux yet doesn't mean they never will. They never said they were against it and Tannin even admitted to trying to compile a Linux version.

That is another Straw Man Argument. There is nothing in my posts which equates to "we are opposed to Linux ports of Vortex." Please re-read my comments because your claim can't be found in statements like: "It's not going to happen unless someone volunteers to do it."

 

Neither of these statements say anything about your comments. They simply help to mitigate some of the negative things you've said.

 

 

Also, I'd bet that the percentage of Linux users is at least a little if not significantly higher among the modding community than it is with regards to Steam at large.

But where is the evidence? It is easy to think of plausible sounding arguments and present them as fact. It is much harder to prove that this is the case. And this is the thing: If Dark0ne and Tannin want to dedicate more than an insignificant amount of time towards making Vortex work on Linux they need proof, not stories.

 

As far as I know an aggregate of this information does not exist. I made an educated guess, which is why I started with "I'd Bet."

 

Let's look at the evidence we have and see if there is a basis for your hypothesis: https://www.nexusmods.com/games

The top three games on Nexus Mods in terms of number of mods uploaded and download count is Skyrim, Fallout 4 and Fallout: New Vegas. All three of these are Windows only and require Steam. Thus, if you want to (legally) mod these games, you have to have Steam.

The next two games are Oblivion and Fallout 3. While these two don't require Steam, the peak of their modding days are long past. I know that Oblivion's modding community greatly diminished once Skyrim was released. Thus, the vast majority of mods for those two were created long before Linux was associated with gaming.

The other games Nexus supports don't even come close to the file count and (in many cases) download numbers of those 5. The first game in that list which supports Linux is Stardew Valley, with less than a quarter of FO3's numbers alone (and it's unclear what percentage of those numbers are Linux users).

Thus, unless you want to argue that there is a significant number of pirates on Linux developing mods for those games, there is no basis for claiming that there is a significant discrepancy between Steam's and Nexus Mod's OS share. In fact, there may even be a basis for arguing that Nexus Mods users are more likely to use Windows than Steam users.

Skyrim, Fallout 4, and Fallout: New Vegas all work on steam on Linux right now thanks to Proton. If you don't believe me you can find evidence on protondb. I'm baffled I have to say this but it is legal to run your games on Linux Steam. In fact the only game I'm personally aware of that doesn't legally work at all on Linux is Final Fantasy XV (though that is a tangent). The only thing missing/not working is a proper mod manager like vortex. Valve is working on closing the gap even more than it already has for Steam games, but they obviously won't be helping with Vortex.

 

 

Not to mention there are individuals who may simply be waiting for the support to come first before making the switch. I was one of them, until I found out how successful Proton has been.

Again, where is the proof? It is easy to invent ad-hoc rescuing devices to save a cherished hypothesis from falsification. Much harder to establish it as fact.

 

This statement only requires two other individuals who fit the profile, though there are many more. You can find some in this thread and in the comments of that youtube video you linked.

 

I, for one, use Windows as my daily driver because it is polished, just works and is more stable for gaming than Linux, even with Proton taken into account. While I have a few small servers that use Linux and keeps some VMs for the handful of things Linux does better for me, I am not interested in making it my daily driver. When I try use Linux, I encounter issues and unpolished bits which make me think, "Why deal with this on Linux when Windows already solved this problem years ago?" One example is that the Windows File Manager has supported navigation using the mouse's back and forward buttons for years. I have yet to find a file manager on Linux that does as well.

That's a good anecdote, but now I'm wondering why you're even in this thread since you don't seem to have a dog in this fight. I hate the additional mouse buttons, but I just checked to see if they work in nautilus (default Ubuntu filemanager) and they do. I do agree about the polish. It can get annoying when things don't work right away. It's not a problem that can't be solved though and a continued attitude of apathy doesn't help matters.

 

To be frank, posts like this are what I was talking about when I mentioned the Dark Side of Linux. The large number of Linux fans who somewhat (or outright) turn OS choice into a political matter. While yours is a more tame example, I have encountered some really nasty Linux fans. For example, Scrawl who announced that OpenMW would become Linux only in revenge for Microsoft buying GitHub (yes, punish Windows and OSX users for something they had nothing to do with) then rage-quit when people dared to disagree with his views. Or this gem where a Linux fan accused Bethesda game modders of being evil because they spend their free time modding proprietary games instead of contributing to something open source. Or more recently where a Linux fan on YouTube labelled me a Microsoft Shill and Idiot (amongst other things) when I dared ask him to prove his claims and refute his faulty ones.

Every community has its bad apples. There's plenty among windows fans as well. No need to bring it up here.

 

 

I appreciate everyone who has made this want known. More support means we're more likely to see it done in the future.

Keep up the good work all.

Again, voting is not going to make a Linux port happen. Only volunteer work will do that.

 

You'd be right except this kind of thread does help. It puts our desire for a Linux port on the map and describes (somewhat inaccurately) how much demand exists. It is obviously in Nexus' interest to be aware of such demand in their market.

 

I feel it's necessary to share that I'm not some Linux fanboy. I've spend far more time on Windows and would rather stick with it, if not for its deal-breakers. My support for Linux mainly comes from the lack of accountability in the alternatives. They aren't open source and continue to get away with a lot of proprietary BS (another rabbit hole I will not go down here).

[Bokentekina]

Yes, that will be great