Load Order Oops

[Bartoneye93]

Hello, Nexus community!

 

Little about me: I've been around for awhile, but mostly just ghost and have never really posted on the forums. I generally understand the idea of downloading mods through one of the mod managers and I also vaguely understand installing mods manually. Especially since some of them, like Interesting NPCs, require you to download the mod manually and then patch it through mod manager. I'm currently at a loss. I've been trying to use load order guides in combination with Vortex's new use of the LOOT Mod groups system in an attempt to try and square away memory leaks, unnecessary overrides, etc. I was running my game just fine, albeit slightly unstable at times, until I completed the Dawnguard storyline. I was about level 33 and had just fast traveled to Dragon Bridge. When I fast travel anywhere else, or when I enter within range of Solitude, I have a CTD.

In game: I've tried leaving followers behind. I've tried dismissing followers entirely. I've traveled by horse instead of fast traveling. I've used the carriage. Everything seems to make me CTD when loading a new cell. So frustrated and annoyed, I thought I would start from scratch, but before I did I wiped my save files and played with the load order. Which is where my new problem comes from:

 

CTD within 5 minutes of launching Skyrim through SKSE. I will attach my load order below and try to attach screenshots of my mods' groups. I can also attach my PC's specs if required. I know the CTD is coming from messing with my load order, but I've changed the group of so many mods I'd have to remove everything and start from scratch to fix it.

 

 

Skyrim.esm

Update.esm

Dawnguard.esm

HearthFires.esm

Dragonborn.esm

ApachiiHair.esm

ApachiiHairFemales.esm

ApachiiHairMales.esm

Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch.esp

Campfire.esm

ClimatesOfTamriel.esm

ETaC - RESOURCES.esm

Falskaar.esm

Gray Fox Cowl.esm

BSAssets.esm

BSHeartland.esm

BS_DLC_patch.esp

SkyUI_SE.esp

3DNPC.esp

Skyrim Immersive Creatures Special Edition.esp

Alternate Start - Live Another Life.esp

AmazingFollowerTweaks.esp

RealisticNeedsandDiseases.esp

SkyTEST-RealisticAnimals&Predators.esp

Animallica.esp

Ars Metallica.esp

Beards.esp

ClimatesOfTamriel-Falskaar.esp

ClimatesOfTamriel-Interiors-Warm.esp

ClimatesOfTamriel-Nights-L2.esp

DeadlyCombat.esp

DeadlySpellImpacts.esp

Dual Wield Parrying_SKSE.esp

FNIS.esp

SkyrimSewers.esp

Immersive Patrols II.esp

Frostfall.esp

Immersive Weapons.esp

LykaiosRace.esp

Prometheus_BeastSkeletons.esp

moonpath.esp

PeopleAreStrangers.esp

RaceMenu.esp

RaceMenuPlugin.esp

Real Solitude Rocks.esp

TrueStormsSE.esp

WetandCold.esp

XPMSE.esp

FNISSexyMove.esp

FNISspells.esp

OpenFaceGuardHelmetsSSE.esp

Proper Aiming.esp

Runandwalkpaces.esp

SMIM-SE-Merged-All.esp

TorchesCastShadows.esp

dD - Enhanced Blood Main.esp

dD-Medium Script Range.esp

dD-Reduced Splatter Size.esp

dD-Reduced Wound Size.esp

RLO - Effects.esp

RLO - Exteriors.esp

RLO - Interiors.esp

RLO - Illuminated Spells.esp

3dnpc - Overhual.esp

Ark_Battlemage.esp

Better Dynamic Snow.esp

tpos_ultimate_esm.esp

Rigmor.esp

ClimatesOfTamriel-Dungeons-Darker.esp

Footprints.esp

Gray Cowl Footprints.esp

SPTConsistentOlderPeopleSE.esp

tpos_altstart_02.esp

OpulentOutfits_2017-SSE AIO.esp

tpos_falskar_patch_01.esp

tpos_rlo_exteriors_patch_01.esp

Gray Fox Cowl - Alternative Start.esp

Gray Cowl of Nocturnal - Delayed Start.esp

Gray Cowl of Nocturnal - Less Weight.esp

Gray Cowl of Nocturnal - Unofficial Patch.esp

Gray Fox Flora Overhaul.esp

Gray Fox Cowl_RND_SSE.esp

icepenguinworldmapclassic.esp

Improved Eyes Skyrim.esp

Improved Eyes Skyrim - Serana.esp

Improved Eyes Skyrim - Vamp.esp

LeftHandRings - Dawnguard.esp

LeftHandRings - Enchanted.esp

NoBSAIProjectileDodge.esp

RLO - VIS Patch.esp

sandboxcylinderheight.esp

SuperbSerana.esp

TighterBandoliers.esp

TKDodge.esp

tpos_lighting_fix_sse_01.esp

Wet&Cold - WaterFix - Addon.esp

Immersive Citizens - AI Overhaul.esp

CollegeOfWinterholdImmersive.esp

ETaC - Complete.esp

LC_BuildYourNobleHouse.esp

Settlements Expanded SE.esp

Hothtrooper44_ArmorCompilation.esp

Populated Cities Towns Villages Legendary.esp

Populated Dungns Caves Ruins Legendary.esp

Inigo.esp

Populated Forts Towers Places Legendary.esp

CatKing.esp

mihailmmaminotaur.esp

mihailsewerrat.esp

WWS Followers.esp

CaesiaFollower.esp

DogKing.esp

Convenient Horses.esp

garm_sr_no_armor.esp

Dezicrah.esp

PAN_FollowerPack1.esp

Claire.esp

Dr_Bandolier.esp

Follower - Adriana.esp

FurSet by keung.esp

R18Pn - Eisen Platte Armor.esp

Freya.esp

Hothtrooper44_Armor_Ecksstra.esp

JRMoonpathBrumaPatch.esp

LeatherBackpackStraps-50.esp

LeftHandRings.esp

SimpleLykaiosFollowers.esp

MadnarLykaios.esp

Populated Skyrim Prisons Cells.esp

RogueArmorHD.esp

SiblingWip.esp

SitaFollower.esp

Walks-In-Shadows_IA_Ban.esp

Open Cities Skyrim.esp

Immersive Citizens - OCS patch.esp

OCS + Skyrim Sewers.esp

CWIOCSSEPatch.esp

RealisticWaterTwo.esp

RealisticWaterTwo - Waves.esp

RealisticWaterTwo - Open Cities.esp

RWT - People of Skyrim Patch.esp

Bruma - Alternate Start.esp

CH Bruma Patch.esp

CWIBDSPatch.esp

tpos_immersive_clit_patch_01.esp

JRMoonpathtoElsweyrPatch.esp

ETaC - Complete RLO Patch.esp

ethereal_elven_overhaul.esp

UNP Vanilla Outfits.esp

CWIOOSEPatchAIO.esp

EBT - IC PATCH.esp

LykaiosApachiiPatchFemale.esp

LykaiosApachiiPatchMain.esp

LykaiosApachiiPatchMale.esp

Modern Brawl Bug Fix.esp

RealisticNeedsandDiseases_Frostfall Patch.esp

RLO - IC Patch.esp

TSCoT.esp

TrueStorms_Wet&Cold_Patch.esp

Unique Uniques.esp

 

As for my PC, it's got:

i7-7700k Kaby-Lake CPU @ 4.2GHz

GTX 1060 (msi) 6gb GPU

4x8 DDR4 3200 for 32gb RAM

120gb SSD

2tb HDD

x2 MSI Optix MAG24C 144hz displays at 1080p

850w Power supply

 

Pretty sure it's not my PC that's the problem.

 

So I'm imploring the help of anyone who's willing to take a moment and explain where I went astray.

I appreciate it, in advanced, and find myself a little humbled because I usually try to figure this kind of thing out entirely by myself.

 

EDIT: IMGUR Link for Screenshots: https://imgur.com/a/LLdP9fT

[Algabar]

If I understood correctly, you used the LOOT categories in Vortex' "plugins" window to kinda sort your mods. That's not what you should do. These categories are for experienced users only, who know the system and the impacts of assigning mods to certain categories. Unless you're absolutely shure you know what you're doing and why, I'd strongly suggest to leave those categories alone.

 

If you want to keep track of your mods and have an easier time finding things, you can use the categories in the "mods" window. They're based on Nexus' categories, but basically they're just an internal sorting system - unlike the LOOT categories, which will influence your load order.

 

There are definitely flaws in your load order. E.g. "Alternate Start" is WAY too high. It must be loaded last or at least as low as possible. If you just let LOOT (or the sorting option of Vortex, which is based on LOOT) do its job, errors like this wouldn't occur.

 

ALso, you definitely NEED a conflict resolution patch with such a large load order. Use a "bashed patch" from Wrye Bash or (IMHO even better) a "smashed patch" created with "Mator Smash".

 

In general, you got all the good, memory heavy, complex and potentially "dangerous" stuff: Multiple large scale new land mods, lots of mods adding NPCs, massive changes to wildlife, Open Cities and other town overhauls... Having SOME of these kind of mods is fine, using them all together might cause issues. To be clear: I'm not blaming any of the mods I mentioned for anything. They work and are great mods on their own. But there's a point, when a game gets simply "overmodded". IMHO, you've reached that point. It's also this combination of large and complex mods, that makes troubleshooting very difficult. Often it's not "that one mod", but a combination of mods (which are otherwise totally fine), that makes a game crash...

 

Sorry to say, but I'm not sure, if your issues can be corrected without building up your load order again from the ground. It's also important to only add mods piece by piece (2 or 3, maybe 5 at a time). Then run LOOT (or Vortex' sorting option) and TEST. If you have issues, get them straight before installing anything new. I know, it takes time and all. But that's the only way to build up large (and stable) load orders...

[Bartoneye93]

If I understood correctly, you used the LOOT categories in Vortex' "plugins" window to kinda sort your mods. That's not what you should do. These categories are for experienced users only, who know the system and the impacts of assigning mods to certain categories. Unless you're absolutely shure you know what you're doing and why, I'd strongly suggest to leave those categories alone.

 

If you want to keep track of your mods and have an easier time finding things, you can use the categories in the "mods" window. They're based on Nexus' categories, but basically they're just an internal sorting system - unlike the LOOT categories, which will influence your load order.

 

There are definitely flaws in your load order. E.g. "Alternate Start" is WAY too high. It must be loaded last or at least as low as possible. If you just let LOOT (or the sorting option of Vortex, which is based on LOOT) do its job, errors like this wouldn't occur.

 

ALso, you definitely NEED a conflict resolution patch with such a large load order. Use a "bashed patch" from Wrye Bash or (IMHO even better) a "smashed patch" created with "Mator Smash".

 

In general, you got all the good, memory heavy, complex and potentially "dangerous" stuff: Multiple large scale new land mods, lots of mods adding NPCs, massive changes to wildlife, Open Cities and other town overhauls... Having SOME of these kind of mods is fine, using them all together might cause issues. To be clear: I'm not blaming any of the mods I mentioned for anything. They work and are great mods on their own. But there's a point, when a game gets simply "overmodded". IMHO, you've reached that point. It's also this combination of large and complex mods, that makes troubleshooting very difficult. Often it's not "that one mod", but a combination of mods (which are otherwise totally fine), that makes a game crash...

 

Sorry to say, but I'm not sure, if your issues can be corrected without building up your load order again from the ground. It's also important to only add mods piece by piece (2 or 3, maybe 5 at a time). Then run LOOT (or Vortex' sorting option) and TEST. If you have issues, get them straight before installing anything new. I know, it takes time and all. But that's the only way to build up large (and stable) load orders...

 

I definitely appreciate your in-depth reply. A part of me figured I was pushing the limits with what I had installed, but I silenced those doubts and just jumped into it anyway.

 

I'll rethink what mods I chose and consider what I really want and don't want and rebuild my load order from the ground up like you suggested. As it turns out, you're right. I don't have a lot of experience in the technical side of it and so I hadn't even considered that maybe my game was unstable simply by the virtue of what I was trying to accomplish. So thank you.

[beantownfan73]

If I understood correctly, you used the LOOT categories in Vortex' "plugins" window to kinda sort your mods. That's not what you should do. These categories are for experienced users only, who know the system and the impacts of assigning mods to certain categories. Unless you're absolutely shure you know what you're doing and why, I'd strongly suggest to leave those categories alone.

 

If you want to keep track of your mods and have an easier time finding things, you can use the categories in the "mods" window. They're based on Nexus' categories, but basically they're just an internal sorting system - unlike the LOOT categories, which will influence your load order.

 

There are definitely flaws in your load order. E.g. "Alternate Start" is WAY too high. It must be loaded last or at least as low as possible. If you just let LOOT (or the sorting option of Vortex, which is based on LOOT) do its job, errors like this wouldn't occur.

 

ALso, you definitely NEED a conflict resolution patch with such a large load order. Use a "bashed patch" from Wrye Bash or (IMHO even better) a "smashed patch" created with "Mator Smash".

 

In general, you got all the good, memory heavy, complex and potentially "dangerous" stuff: Multiple large scale new land mods, lots of mods adding NPCs, massive changes to wildlife, Open Cities and other town overhauls... Having SOME of these kind of mods is fine, using them all together might cause issues. To be clear: I'm not blaming any of the mods I mentioned for anything. They work and are great mods on their own. But there's a point, when a game gets simply "overmodded". IMHO, you've reached that point. It's also this combination of large and complex mods, that makes troubleshooting very difficult. Often it's not "that one mod", but a combination of mods (which are otherwise totally fine), that makes a game crash...

 

Sorry to say, but I'm not sure, if your issues can be corrected without building up your load order again from the ground. It's also important to only add mods piece by piece (2 or 3, maybe 5 at a time). Then run LOOT (or Vortex' sorting option) and TEST. If you have issues, get them straight before installing anything new. I know, it takes time and all. But that's the only way to build up large (and stable) load orders...

Hey there. I'm a noob when it comes to mods and load order. I have wrye bash and it said something about merging some mods/plugins into a bashed patch. How is this done? I didn't see an option to do it and I don't want to play around with stuff I don't have any clue about.

[beantownfan73]

I auto sort my plugins using vortex and it still put some stuff in places they shouldn't be. Then I have to manually set the load order.

[Bartoneye93]

I auto sort my plugins using vortex and it still put some stuff in places they shouldn't be. Then I have to manually set the load order.

 

I noticed that, too. Like alternate start and Open Cities are apparently supposed to go near/at the bottom, but it auto sorts them higher up in their own categories.

As far as Wrye Bash goes, you find the BashedPatch.esp in the plugin list in Wrye Bash and right click it. It should have an option that says to rebuild patch. Click that, and you might get a text box saying "These mods need to be disabled to create the bashed patch." That's fine. Click "Ok" and continue. Next will be another contextual box. Click near the bottom where it says "Build Patch". Sort your load order, again, run FNIS (if you're using it) and then launch the game through SKSE like normal.

[beantownfan73]

Thanks for the help, much appreciated!