[suggestion] Easier load order

[Guest deleted34304850]

Unwanted software. Exactly. The devs decided on a rule based sorting system, so drag and drop is unwanted/unnecessary. In essence, bloatware, which, if they dropped everything and tried to implement would mean probably undoing a years worth of development for absolutely no gain and a world of pain because people would mis-use it, as they mis-use Vortex on a daily basis and blame the application for their own shortcomings.

 

I don't agree with your other points, and I think your conclusions are fallacies and are to a great extent somewhat duplicitous.

 

I would like to know what you think is missing from a rules based sorting method when compared to drag and drop, based on your experience of using the rules based method.

 

Having used both, I can tell you what I believe to be missing from drag and drop compared to a rules based sort - an audit trail of what mod was placed in a specific point in the load order and why. Using the rules based method I can easily set up rules and groups to place any mod EXACTLY where I want it in the load order, and, I can use additional documentation files in Vortex to write down why I did it. It is a very easy system to learn, and gives you complete control.

 

Have you used Vortex and set up rules to help you sort your load order, or, are you simply piling on with ill-thought out and contrarian responses?

[AugustaCalidia]

The fact that this has been debated forever would suggest that current Vortex design is suboptimal.

 

 

On the contrary, it would suggest that manual load order aficionados have so much ego invested in their plugin prowess that they refuse to recognize how optimal the Vortex design is.

 

[HadToRegister]

NMM had good rule based ordering and manual ordering.

Once you've found the conflict nothing is easier or faster than adjusting your load order manually.

The fact that this has been debated forever would suggest that current Vortex design is suboptimal.

Trying to add XEdit functionality is just bloatware.

 

NMM never had, nor has "Rule Based Ordering"

If that were even remotely true, then you'd have no complaints about using Vortex.

 

Once you find a conflict in NMM, it only had to do with the ESPs, or only when installing Textures or Meshes, which you had to commit to a PERMANENT overwrite, and if you found out you overwrote the wrong files, you had to completely uninstall BOTH mods, and do it all over again.

Vortex automatically manages the Texture and Mesh files, so that if you overwrite the wrong ones, it's as simple as merely telling the other mod to load after or before the other mod, and Vortex automatically restores and overwrites the correct files.

Something that NMM cannot do.,

 

As I said, you're INSISTING on manually ordering the ESPS when you don't have to anymore.

 

You definitely don't understand what you're talking about, because nowhere is Vortex trying to add Xedit functionality, Xedit is for finding conflicts within ESPS, Vortex doesn't do that because it sorts them optimally automatically.

I have a feeling you're getting your misinformation from some errant reddit thread where people who don't know how to use Vortex or have never used it, just spread misinformation to get people riled up, because you certainly haven't exhibited any working knowledge of Vortex, and seem to be repeating "stuff you heard" about it, because you haven't made any factual points yet.

Have you even used it or are you just bandwagoning?

 

Vortex is more concerned about the loading order of BSAs, BA2, Archive files, Textures and Meshes.

You don't even have to concerned yourself with the load order of ESPs, NMM made you have to manually sort ESPs, Vortex frees you from that

 

[2much4l1]

Unwanted software. Exactly. The devs decided on a rule based sorting system, so drag and drop is unwanted/unnecessary. In essence, bloatware, which, if they dropped everything and tried to implement would mean probably undoing a years worth of development for absolutely no gain and a world of pain because people would mis-use it, as they mis-use Vortex on a daily basis and blame the application for their own shortcomings.

 

I don't agree with your other points, and I think your conclusions are fallacies and are to a great extent somewhat duplicitous.

 

I would like to know what you think is missing from a rules based sorting method when compared to drag and drop, based on your experience of using the rules based method.

 

Having used both, I can tell you what I believe to be missing from drag and drop compared to a rules based sort - an audit trail of what mod was placed in a specific point in the load order and why. Using the rules based method I can easily set up rules and groups to place any mod EXACTLY where I want it in the load order, and, I can use additional documentation files in Vortex to write down why I did it. It is a very easy system to learn, and gives you complete control.

 

Have you used Vortex and set up rules to help you sort your load order, or, are you simply piling on with ill-thought out and contrarian responses?

Wow. "Duplicitous". Seriously? Your devotion to Vortex is noted and I regret that frustration with disagreement has risen so high.

 

I have used Vortex to install over 100 mods to FNV...

Found a dialogue conflict. With the NMM you can highlight the mod then just click it down to wherever you want. 30 seconds? No rules. No groups. Very limited forced user behavior.

 

I certainly do not want to add even more rules to Vortex and since the dev has said manual manipulation of load order is no go, rules and groups it is for Vortex users.

[Guest deleted34304850]

One of my pet peeves in my day job is when people come up with "Well we've always done it that way" as a means to not do something better.

I see this a lot. I get it, people don't like change and fear change. The way to beat those fears is to go the extra mile and understand what it is you fear.

Vortex makes manual sorting redundant. Absolutely and utterly.

If your only defence is that you don't trust LOOT and therefore by implication, Vortex, as that uses LOOT, then that is a flawed defence. If you're suggesting Vortex is using Xedit functionality, then you're 100% wrong. Xedit has it's place in your mod toolbox, but Vortex is not, at all, stepping on its toes. On the contrary, you can use both Xedit and Vortex to give you the comfort of 'best of both worlds' should you wish to.

 

I want to understand points in this discussion because that is what this forum is for, but the discussion has to be on real issues that can be overcome by understanding, or by actually finding a limitation with Vortex that can be fixed to make it a better program to manage mods. What is not helpful are fallacies and mistruths that are either deliberate, or sourced from ignorance.

 

That's why I asked if the poster had used Vortex and had found a limitation. If there is a limitation, then let's get it out there so that Tannin can fix it.

[HadToRegister]

 

With the NMM you can highlight the mod then just click it down to wherever you want. 30 seconds? No rules. No groups.

 

 

 

And a ton of conflicts, ESPs, in the wrong order etc, while the user is blissfully unaware of the problems.

 

Just because it's fast, doesn't mean it's correct.

 

If you mean DOWNLOAD a mod "With the NMM you can highlight the mod then just click it down to wherever you want"

If you double click a mod on the mods tab, it will open a window on the right and you can click on "Visit on Nexusmods .com"

 

 

[Guest deleted34304850]

Yes, duplicitous. It's the correct word given the context of your counter arguments. I mean no offence by it, but it is what it is.

 

Here is an example, as I believe in evidence;

 

The fact that this has been debated forever would suggest that current Vortex design is suboptimal.

The duplicity here is your conclusion that Vortex is 'suboptimal'. This conclusion is not based on any real world evidence. It is opinion that is without foundation. It's added to your statement to give you a contrarian position that suberts any meaningful attempt to stay on topic.

You claim to have added 100 mods to FONV, good. You found at least one issue. You then claim it is easier to drag/drop the conflicting mods. Great. Vortex doesn't have that facility built in, instead it gives you the far superior option to create a rule to load one mod before/after another. It also allows you to drill down and load the conflicting files before/after each other should you wish. As this rule is now part of Vortex, you never need to worry about it again. No drag/drop facility that I know of, gives me that level of control and management.

Is it suboptimal? No, it's a different way of achieving same thing.

Having used both methods I prefer Vortex because it gives me a lot of built in security. If I mess up, I can revert with ease without having to ponder what mods need to be removed and redeployed manually.

I think you're good at using words, but you're not so good at using them correctly.

Suboptimal? No.

Bloatware? No.

Basically, you are not ordered or commanded to use Vortex. You can use NMM, MO or just do it manually yourself should you wish. It's entierly your call, but if you're going to add to a discussion on how to make a very good mod manager even better, you need to come up with some really good arguments, and less of the fallacies.

[AugustaCalidia]

Now you see rules . . .

 

 

NMM had good rule based ordering and manual ordering.

 

 

. . . now you don't.

 

 

With the NMM you can highlight the mod then just click it down to wherever you want. 30 seconds? No rules. No groups. Very limited forced user behavior.

 

 

How do you say "self-contradictory?"

[2much4l1]

Unwanted software. Exactly. The devs decided on a rule based sorting system, so drag and drop is unwanted/unnecessary. In essence, bloatware, which, if they dropped everything and tried to implement would mean probably undoing a years worth of development for absolutely no gain and a world of pain because people would mis-use it, as they mis-use Vortex on a daily basis and blame the application for their own shortcomings.

 

I don't agree with your other points, and I think your conclusions are fallacies and are to a great extent somewhat duplicitous.

 

I would like to know what you think is missing from a rules based sorting method when compared to drag and drop, based on your experience of using the rules based method.

 

Having used both, I can tell you what I believe to be missing from drag and drop compared to a rules based sort - an audit trail of what mod was placed in a specific point in the load order and why. Using the rules based method I can easily set up rules and groups to place any mod EXACTLY where I want it in the load order, and, I can use additional documentation files in Vortex to write down why I did it. It is a very easy system to learn, and gives you complete control.

 

Have you used Vortex and set up rules to help you sort your load order, or, are you simply piling on with ill-thought out and contrarian responses?

Wow. "Duplicitous". Seriously? Your devotion to Vortex is noted and I regret that frustration with disagreement has risen so high.

 

I have used Vortex to install over 100 mods to FNV...

Found a dialogue conflict. With the NMM you can highlight the mod then just click it down to wherever you want. 30 seconds? No rules. No groups. Very limited forced user behavior.

 

I certainly do not want to add even more rules to Vortex and since the dev has said manual manipulation of load order is no go, rules and groups it is for Vortex users.

 

 

Yes, duplicitous. It's the correct word given the context of your counter arguments. I mean no offence by it, but it is what it is.

 

Here is an example, as I believe in evidence;

 

The fact that this has been debated forever would suggest that current Vortex design is suboptimal.

The duplicity here is your conclusion that Vortex is 'suboptimal'. This conclusion is not based on any real world evidence. It is opinion that is without foundation. It's added to your statement to give you a contrarian position that suberts any meaningful attempt to stay on topic.

You claim to have added 100 mods to FONV, good. You found at least one issue. You then claim it is easier to drag/drop the conflicting mods. Great. Vortex doesn't have that facility built in, instead it gives you the far superior option to create a rule to load one mod before/after another. It also allows you to drill down and load the conflicting files before/after each other should you wish. As this rule is now part of Vortex, you never need to worry about it again. No drag/drop facility that I know of, gives me that level of control and management.

Is it suboptimal? No, it's a different way of achieving same thing.

Having used both methods I prefer Vortex because it gives me a lot of built in security. If I mess up, I can revert with ease without having to ponder what mods need to be removed and redeployed manually.

I think you're good at using words, but you're not so good at using them correctly.

Suboptimal? No.

Bloatware? No.

Basically, you are not ordered or commanded to use Vortex. You can use NMM, MO or just do it manually yourself should you wish. It's entierly your call, but if you're going to add to a discussion on how to make a very good mod manager even better, you need to come up with some really good arguments, and less of the fallacies.

Lol! Disagreement is duplicitous. Got it.

 

[2much4l1]

Now you see rules . . .

 

 

NMM had good rule based ordering and manual ordering.

 

 

. . . now you don't.

 

 

With the NMM you can highlight the mod then just click it down to wherever you want. 30 seconds? No rules. No groups. Very limited forced user behavior.

 

 

 

How do you say "self-contradictory?"

Are saying Vortex rule based ordering does not require adjusting once in awhile?