Is Vortex a needlessly more confusing than NMM or it's just me?

[AugustaCalidia]

As for overwriting, Vortex fails to explain what loading before/after means and instead relies on video tutorials by a third party listed in a menu, which is not only highly unprofessional but wastes a good chunk of your time. A ten minute video by someone who is doing more to get noticed for views than to get the information through was chosen over hover popups with a single line of text about each option or even a keyword search menu, as the good Microsoft blessed into existence.

 

Apparently you've not read the built-in Vortex Knowledge Base, where this feature is nicely explained. Furthermore, your aggressive disapproval of the Vortex videos is just as much an insult as those insults you mention earlier in your post.

[Guest deleted34304850]

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Edited July 18, 2019 by 1ae0bfb8

[HadToRegister]

Sadly, the website download mod manager button does no longer apply and you will need to manually check for updates, however it is still more dry common sense to use.

Would agree with the initial topic starter argument, despite knowing the benefits Vortex has. Tried to give it a chance and still managing one game with it, but even after learning why it "simplifies" the modding process, its purpose was not to make things more user-friendly but rather fool-proof. Regardless of the aggressive approval of some players online (which often tends to go to insults, as you might be able to notice), the numeric majority of comments I have seen online, claim it hasn't quite managed this.

What I would suggest for those that are dissatisfied with the lack of manual ordering is to just use the NMM plugin tab. It will still recognize all plugins and allow you to move them around. Note, you will need to disable autosorting in Vortex first, else it will rearrange by its LOOT way (which is, oddly enough, not always identical to what standalone LOOT does) every time you start it.

 

As for overwriting, Vortex fails to explain what loading before/after means and instead relies on video tutorials by a third party listed in a menu, which is not only highly unprofessional but wastes a good chunk of your time. A ten minute video by someone who is doing more to get noticed for views than to get the information through was chosen over hover popups with a single line of text about each option or even a keyword search menu, as the good Microsoft blessed into existence.

But a short variant of it, consider it as layering - whatever you put last is what you will be seeing due to it hiding whatever is below it, but it will depend on whatever is below it as it is carrying its weight.

 

Perhaps nexusmods will reconsider things in the future and maybe even add a "choose mod manager" option for the Old Reliable. Until then, mix and match.

 

 

 

 

This is why I dislike NMM so much now, because it has conditioned people to believe that they MUST micromanage their Plugin load order, when they don't

 

When I fist started using Vortex, I was from the NMM way of doing things and I INSISTED on forcing MY Plugin load order on Vortex, and what I got was an absolute mess, along with a ton of cyclic references and a non working load order.

 

Once I realized to let Vortex worry about the plugin Load order, I was free to worry about the load order that matters.

The Textures and Meshes, BSAs and BA2s etc.

 

Once I stopped trying to make Vortex into NMM, everything now goes very quickly.

 

Your suggestion that somebody open up their plugin load order with NMM, and manually arrange the plugins, then go back to Vortex with the newly arranged load order is a TERRIBLE idea, because you're having two mod managers writing to the same plugins.txt, and you're going to end up with Cyclic References because NMM doesn't know anything about the built in plugin rules for a lot of esps, so NMM is going to allow you to completely jank up your load order by putting esps before or after esps that have specific loot rules that will result in Cyclic references, and a complete bird's nest of conflicting rules.

 

What you're suggesting is actually more difficult, and prone to error, rather than just reading the SETUP guide built into Vortex, and watching some of the built in tutorials.

 

If you're going to use Vortex, you have to leave that NMM conditioning behind, because i's not reliable and just makes your experience more difficult.

 

 

 

[necromunchy]

Narfiam, I apologise for my reply causing your thread to attract redundant replies. Giving advice from personal experience of not having problems with mods up until some unexpected texture glitches recently which might or might not be unrelated to them.
It is entirely up to you to see which method you like more. Some people prefer ProEngineer to Sketchup. True, having more control over things is not for everyone but having more complex, more difficulty does not necessarily mean it's worse than the alternative.
Especially if you know what you are doing.

[HadToRegister]

Narfiam, I apologise for my reply causing your thread to attract redundant replies. Giving advice from personal experience of not having problems with mods up until some unexpected texture glitches recently which might or might not be unrelated to them.

It is entirely up to you to see which method you like more. Some people prefer ProEngineer to Sketchup. True, having more control over things is not for everyone but having more complex, more difficulty does not necessarily mean it's worse than the alternative.

Especially if you know what you are doing.

 

 

You're giving bad advice.

 

The replies aren't redundant, the replies are in response to your bad advice.

 

You keep saying "IF you know what you are doing", but won't even spend the time learning Vortex, and instead give out bad advice instead.

 

If you knew what you were doing, you wouldn't be having any problems with Vortex, instead you're giving advice that is more difficult, and error prone than just learning Vortex.

 

You've gotten THREE replies from THREE of the members of this support forum that provide support, telling you the same thing, yet you ignore all that

[Narfiam]

Narfiam, I apologise for my reply causing your thread to attract redundant replies. Giving advice from personal experience of not having problems with mods up until some unexpected texture glitches recently which might or might not be unrelated to them.

It is entirely up to you to see which method you like more. Some people prefer ProEngineer to Sketchup. True, having more control over things is not for everyone but having more complex, more difficulty does not necessarily mean it's worse than the alternative.

Especially if you know what you are doing.

You don't have to apologise about nothing, what's more, I agree with your first reply.

I don't think the devs have released Vortex to make things worse, but Vortex is unnecesary at this stage IMO.

I'm pretty sure if I spend time learning how to use Vortex correctly I will like it more than NMM but the problem is I don't want to learn how to use another mod-related program AGAIN.

Years ago, when I started to mod Skyrim (and Fallout 4 later) I had to read dozens of tutorials and watch youtube videos to learn how to use Wrye Bash, TES5Edit, NMM, what is BOSS (and later LOOT) and what the messages it show me mean, how to install SKSE etc. I had a lot of trial-error tests while I was learning, more than five rage uninstalls because crashes I didn't know how to solve or bad configurations,...

Sorry but I don't want to spend time learning again how to use a program for modding, I prefer staying with the old reliable (NMM), LOOT, Wrye Bass and TEST5Edit (or its variations for Special Edition or Fallout 4).

I don't need a Mod Manager for managing my load order I have LOOT (which is super easy to use), or a Mod Manager for telling me what mods have conflict, LOOT do this too, etc. In a Mod Manager I only need a program for downloading mods and installing it with a very intuitive interface and operation (NMM fulfil it), the other needs are covered by other programs, learning how to use another modding tool AGAIN is a waste of time and don't worth it IMO.

Edited March 2, 2019 by Narfiam

[Dark0ne]

I guess this begs the question then, if all you need is NMM, why did you bother trying Vortex in the first place? I don't understand the logic.

[AugustaCalidia]

@Narfiam

 

 

I don't need a Mod Manager for managing my load order I have LOOT (which is super easy to use), or a Mod Manager for telling me what mods have conflict, LOOT do this too, etc.

 

LOOT deals with plugin load order only. It does not deal with mod conflicts (overlapping files) and install order.

 

 

 

In a Mod Manager I only need a program for downloading mods and installing it with a very intuitive interface and operation (NMM fulfil it)

 

Do you mean an intuitive NMM interface like the following?

 

 

 

If people understand anything about this menu, I suspect the only thing most of them understand is "yes to all."

Edited March 3, 2019 by Augusta Calidia

[Narfiam]

I guess this begs the question then, if all you need is NMM, why did you bother trying Vortex in the first place? I don't understand the logic.

Because I thought NMM don't works anymore with the manager download options of the mods and maybe I couldn't log in with my Nexus account neither.

 

 

 

 

Do you mean an intuitive NMM interface like the following?

 

NMM.JPG

 

If people understand anything about this menu, I suspect the only thing most of them understand is "yes to all."

 

As intuitive I refer to extreme simplicity that don't head to a maze of menus, options and settings, you have two boxes, the top box with the mod list, categorized or not, enabled mods have a check symbol. If you enable one of them and the window you have put there appears means the new mod has the same files and you can overwrite it or not. The bottom box with the ongoing downloads and showing the state of them, end of the story. I know that NMM have more settings and functions, but honestly I only remember used one of its other tools one or two times and I don't even remember for what, most of the time the basics were enough. When I had an hour using NMM I already knew how to use the basic functions of the program without reading any tutorial or watching any video.

Edited March 3, 2019 by Narfiam

[HadToRegister]

 

I guess this begs the question then, if all you need is NMM, why did you bother trying Vortex in the first place? I don't understand the logic.

Because I thought NMM don't works anymore with the manager download options of the mods and maybe I couldn't log in with my Nexus account neither.

 

 

Well, you've been explained the multiple features and benefits of Vortex (built in LOOT, Auto Sort, Conflict Resolution and Warning, the ability to Overwrite Textures and Meshes NON DESTRUCTIVELY etc), but those features don't appeal to you and you'd rather go back to not knowing about mod conflicts, having to micromanage your plugin load order, and doing Hard Overwrites of textures and meshes so you have to completely uninstall and reinstall your mods until you install them in the correct order, so since that extra hassle appeals to you and you insist on doing everything the difficult and inefficient way, along with the terrible advice you've been given along the way, then have at it.

 

Please post your future problems with NMM in the NMM support forum.