Old World Blues - random CTDs

[TheTrooper1138]

So after playing for a while in OWB, I get random (or not so random) crashes every time. It runs fine at first, but after doing some stuff I end up with the game crashing while I'm running around outside (100% CTD trigger seems to be the area West of The Sink, just walking around outside leads to CTD, but only after playing for a bit, doing a couple of the labs).

I tried everything, disabling my mods (only one I can't disable is custom Mannequin race, but I doubt that one is causing it) doesn't help, still getting the crash. Loaded an earlier save, then it worked again until after I did one of the labs, then I get the CTD in that area (and Sink too now) again.

 

Checked Windows Event viewer and got the Exception code: 0xc0000005 and found this thread: https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/6190629-random-crashes/

 

I tried some of the things already mentioned there like the "sfc/scannow", "Sheson patch" etc.

 

My error log also shows the "DEFAULT: Radio station exterior position ref '' (2104950A) is not placed in an exterior." error the OP in that thread got, so maybe that's connected?

 

Full Windows event log:

 

 

 

Faulting application name: FalloutNV.exe, version: 1.4.0.525, time stamp: 0x4e0d50ed

 

Faulting module name: FalloutNV.exe, version: 1.4.0.525, time stamp: 0x4e0d50ed

 

Exception code: 0xc0000005

Fault offset: 0x0001022d

Faulting process id: 0x1480

Faulting application start time: 0x01d4d6f1155cbb0a

Faulting application path: E:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\common\Fallout New Vegas\FalloutNV.exe

Faulting module path: E:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\common\Fallout New Vegas\FalloutNV.exe

Report Id: 1e39b29a-0482-4564-9a8a-b608e1c5b522

Faulting package full name:

Faulting package-relative application ID:

 

 

 

Here's my error log: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cxwjsLsI3y810XBSuhFXDbTwCPShRfE3/view?usp=sharing

 

And my load order (though as I said, disabling mods doesn't help with the crashes):

(ClearCacheKey was another attempt at fixing this, didn't use it before, so it's definitely not the troublemaker)

 

GameMode=FalloutNV

 

FalloutNV.esm=1

DeadMoney.esm=1

HonestHearts.esm=1

OldWorldBlues.esm=1

LonesomeRoad.esm=1

GunRunnersArsenal.esm=1

ClassicPack.esm=1

MercenaryPack.esm=1

TribalPack.esm=1

CaravanPack.esm=1

Sexout.esm=1

SexoutCommonResources.esm=1

SexoutSlavery.esm=1

SexOutScorpionsGang.esp=1

SexoutSoliciting.esm=1

SexoutTryout.esm=1

CoitoErgoSum.esm=1

SexoutWorkingGirl.esp=1

T6M Equipment Replacer NV.esm=1

NVWillow.esp=1

VanessaFollowerNV.esm=1

SexoutStore.esm=1

munnibhaiT6Outfits_ed2.esm=1

ACNV.esm=1

UnethicalDeeds.esm=1

YUP - Base Game + All DLC.esm=1

Slave In Pose FNV Full Edition.esp=1

Distributed Necklaces and Chains.esp=1

RSCR-Enhanced.esp=1

ACNV.esp=1

Sexist Dialogue V1.5.0.esp=1

SexoutConsequences.esp=1

Sexout- CES.esp=1

RSCR-Expansion_Decks.esp=1

SexoutFadeToBlack.esp=1

CESxDLC.esp=1

populatedcasino-medium.esp=1

Liberty Loft.esp=1

SexoutSoliciting-DLC.esp=1

TwistedMinds.esp=1

zzClothes.esp=1

TroubleMaker Armor.esp=1

The Mod Configuration Menu.esp=1

WMIMNV.esp=1

T6M Gambler Female Suit.esp=1

MojaveDelight.esp=1

SexoutAnimManagement.esp=1

SexoutPosNew.esp=1

SmallerTalk.esp=1

SexoutSpunk.esp=1

T6M Jeans Outfit.esp=1

SexoutStraponSex.esp=1

Sexout - KissKey.esp=1

SexoutCompanions.esp=1

SexoutLust.esp=1

sexoutVanessa.esp=1

SexyTacticalOutfitT6M.esp=1

PinkPrincessSuitEN.esp=1

tacticalcorset.esp=1

MojaveDelighted.esp=1

Women of New Vegas - Billboards.esp=1

zzjayHairsFNV.esp=1

Mannequin Rce.esp=1

SexoutSex.esp=1

YUP - NPC Fixes (Base Game + All DLC).esp=1

Clean-QuickSave.esp=1

PerkEveryLevel.esp=1

UnlimitedCompanions.esp=1

UnlimitedCompanions SCRIPT FIX.esp=1

Type3 Leather Armors.esp=1

epock.esp=1

Alternative Repairing.esp=1

Alternative Repairing - Honest Hearts.esp=1

Alternative Repairing - Lonesome Road.esp=1

A Better Veronica.esp=1

Rose of Sharon Cassidy.esp=1

Weapon Retexture Project.esp=1

Xaz_Clothes.esp=1

joslinkydress.esp=1

nu_women_of_the_wasteland.esp=1

SexoutWillow.esp=1

MegaCityOneJudgeNV.esp=1

CowgirlRaiderOutfit (DT14).esp=1

MotorcycleRaiderT6M.esp=1

Increasedcarryweight2.esp=1

CAGE 1.9.3.2.esp=1

ClearCacheKey.esp=1

Bashed Patch, 0.esp=1

 

Edited March 10, 2019 by TheTrooper1138

[dubiousintent]

Re: "Windows Exception code: 0xc0000005". The "Faulting Application" is often the victim of another program rather than the actual culprit, making it virtually impossible for the user to trace the source. Any recent update since the last time it was working correctly is suspect, as are viruses even if you have anti-virus (AV) running. Run AV from multiple sources when checking for infections. There are a number of free online scanners on the internet (though they are all going to try to sell you their services after the first time).

You may need to exclude FNV from "Data Execution Protection (DEP)" and configure " Windows Defender Exploit Guard (WDEG)". Please see "Issue - NVSE - fails to load after update KB4058043 to Win10 FCU v1709" under the 'Solutions to Starting the game problems' section of the wiki "Fallout NV Mod Conflict Troubleshooting" article.

Try turning off any unnecessary background processes, such as "anti-virus" or "anti-malware" programs (unneeded if you are running your game in "offline" mode once you have scanned since the last connection), multiplayer "overlays" like "OverWolf" (this is single-player after all), the Steam overlay, etc., at least on a temporary basis to see if they are interfering. There are also tools (often called "Game Boosters") to help you determine "unnecessary when offline" Windows services you can temporarily shut down.

It is also possible that any recent change to your mods (such as updates) or your existing "load order" (such as additions or removals) have causes a corruption of the current save game file. Try going back to a save game from before the problem started. Often starting a "new game" with a vanilla test character can help confirm if the problem lies in the current load order.

 

You are "heavy" on graphics mods. These put a strain on the game video pipeline (regardless of how robust your hardware is). Please see the wiki "Display resolution versus Image Size" article.

-Dubious-

[LordEmm]

I have recently run into the same problem as the OP, with a similar (but much smaller) modlist. I have tried pretty much everything in the help topics, NEVER fast traveled while in Big MT, got one upgrade at a time, when the quest would tell me, went back on foot, again NEVER fast traveled, or took more than one upgrade at a time (which seems to be at the root of the problem for some reason). That worked for various amounts of time, but invariable, at some point, when walking the Big MT i'd get random CTDs, but ONLY outside, which is perplexing me. Can't tie it down to a specific upgrade or place discovered as i did these in various order... almost seems like there is a timer as to how long one can walk around in the Big MT before it will crash...

 

@TheTrooper1138, as i said we have some mods in common, maybe we can hash it out and see what the problem may be? PM me if you want...

[dubiousintent]

The following entries in the wiki 'Fallout NV Mod Conflict Troubleshooting' guide specifically address known Win10 problems:
* 'Issue: NVSE - fails to load after update KB4058043 to Win10 FCU (v1709)'
* 'Issue: Incomplete save game load' (NVSR related)
* 'Issue: Vanilla game Hangs on startup'; specifically "Cause-1" regarding DirectX9 drivers.
* 'Issue: "Full screen mode" exhibits CTDs and stutters or micro-stutters'
* 'Issue: Recent (post-Win10 FCU) CTDs after 10-20 minutes of play' (NVSR related)
* 'Issue: Lag or "micro stutters" even with "New Vegas Stutter Remover" installed (or not)'. In particular "Cause-4" regarding video card settings. The latest video drivers may not be the best suited to an older game like FNV. All vendors drop testing of old games at some point. Backwards compatibility is never guaranteed, much less "optimization".
Also, "Cause-7" regarding "Superfetch" and "File search indexing". Windows updates will often reset these back on.
* 'Issue: Win10 Screen tearing in "Borderless Windowed Mode"'
* 'Issue: ENB Support for Windows versions later than Win7'
* 'Issue: Problems using ENB/SweetFx on Windows 10'

-Dubious-

[LordEmm]

The following entries in the wiki 'Fallout NV Mod Conflict Troubleshooting' guide specifically address known Win10 problems:

-snip-

-Dubious-

 

Thank you very much for trying to help, dubious, but i tried everything covered in the links you gave (as i mentioned in my original post). Never even used stutter remover (never needed it for New Vegas).

 

I have reloaded a save from before even Honest Hearts to see if maybe a save game corruption was the problem, and initially all went well, but once again, upon visiting around 30 places in the BigMT, and/or firing the Artillery Gun, and/or collecting some AI improvements out of order, i started to get random CTDs again on walking around. Never fast traveled once, although testing fast traveling seems to acerbate the problem, as did trying to go outside the fence range (to get that achievement were you leave the area twice and get ported back to the Sink entrance).

 

The problem is, i have no idea how far back i should go ideally, to see if this is indeed just a save game corruption problem, because it seems to only manifest itself deep into the Old World Blues storyline, and having that now three times from scratch is kind of annoying. I am pretty sure that it is either tied to the side quests for the AI's and their improvements and/or the amount of time you spend just exploring the Big MT, with maybe the number of places found also being of relevance. Except for YUP and Weapon Mod Expansion, i have no mods that touch OWB, so either there is something hidden in those two (unlikely, since pretty much everybody seems to use them fine), or there is something else rotten in my own little state of Denmark ;)

[dubiousintent]

You can also get "out of memory" errors from the graphics system (which is separate from exhausting system memory), even with the game 4GB enabled. The video pipeline is known to have "memory leaks", and these occur faster with "beautification mods". Here the cause is a combination of larger image sizes ("higher resolutions", aka "hi-rez"), hi-rez texture packs for skin, hair, clothes, weapons, and landscape; along with mods that increase the number of NPCS in a given cell. (All those hi-rez texture "personal accessories" get multiplied by the number of Actors.) Please see the wiki "Display resolution versus Image Size" article. While "ENBoost" can help, you may need to switch to lower resolution/ smaller sized images or even lower quality in your game graphics configuration.

 

"Texture packs" don't usually show up in the "load order". (They are replacing vanilla assets; thus they overwrite existing files.) And the issue with them is what size/resolution of the images you are using. Larger/"hi-rez" textures require more pixels, and larger screen display monitors multiply that requirement in a non-linear way. While your hardware may technically be able to handle it, the game was published in late 2010, designed for Windows Vista with maximum screen displays of 1920x1080, with default image sizes of 512x512 pixels. The game engine texture cache tends to be the bottleneck: "leaking memory" and causing "stutter". Please see the wiki "Display resolution versus Image Size" article.

-Dubious-

[LordEmm]

You can also get "out of memory" errors from the graphics system (which is separate from exhausting system memory), even with the game 4GB enabled. The video pipeline is known to have "memory leaks", and these occur faster with "beautification mods". Here the cause is a combination of larger image sizes ("higher resolutions", aka "hi-rez"), hi-rez texture packs for skin, hair, clothes, weapons, and landscape; along with mods that increase the number of NPCS in a given cell. (All those hi-rez texture "personal accessories" get multiplied by the number of Actors.) Please see the wiki "Display resolution versus Image Size" article. While "ENBoost" can help, you may need to switch to lower resolution/ smaller sized images or even lower quality in your game graphics configuration.

 

"Texture packs" don't usually show up in the "load order". (They are replacing vanilla assets; thus they overwrite existing files.) And the issue with them is what size/resolution of the images you are using. Larger/"hi-rez" textures require more pixels, and larger screen display monitors multiply that requirement in a non-linear way. While your hardware may technically be able to handle it, the game was published in late 2010, designed for Windows Vista with maximum screen displays of 1920x1080, with default image sizes of 512x512 pixels. The game engine texture cache tends to be the bottleneck: "leaking memory" and causing "stutter". Please see the wiki "Display resolution versus Image Size" article.

 

-Dubious-

Once again, i appreciate the help, but this problem has nothing to do with graphic mods, at least not directly. I am quite proficient with the gamebryo/radiant engine, and have had no problems solving issues in Oblivion, Fallout 3, or New Vagas Main game (only OWB made trouble).

 

After extensive testing i am 99% sure i have found the cause of the problem, and that being ash piles after disintegration (not sure about goo, didn't have any plasma weapons to test with). If you go into an encounter spawn zone and manage to disintegrate any of the spawned opponents, then upon clean up the game will CTD without warning or error. The various lengths of time of no CTDs observed was in fact due to not using energy weapons, OR only using them inside the labs. This seems to be due to how the spawn zones cleanup is set up in Old World Blues. The cleanup only is initiated once you have gone through two spawn zones, and enter a third, or after some time delay and fast travel. That is why for some time it seemed to be connected to other events and only crops up later in playthroughs (as i only got/used Elijah's Advanced LAER very late every time. Sniper Rifle did just fine until then :wink:.

 

Scripting is probably not my best modding skill, but as far as i can see, once an ash-pile is attached to the referenced actor, and the spawn box, or the actor itself, is disabled that somehow causes a chain reaction in the whole process. I didn't use any energy weapons in my first play-through of Honest Hearts, from which this encounter zoning and refreshing script was pretty much cloned, so i have no idea if the problem would pop up there too. If not, i probably could find out what is different in Old World Blues and see why it behaves this way...

 

Currently my only solution is to not use Energy (and probably Plasma) Weapons outside in the BigMT. Inside Caves, Labs, etc, that seems fine, since those enemies are not tied to the encounter zones (unless they follow you inside as Lobotomites are sometimes wont to do)...

 

If somebody with better scripting skills and more time on their hands could maybe look into this, i would be very grateful.

Edited May 7, 2019 by LordEmm

[dubiousintent]

That's some interesting detective work isolating the problem to the cleanup of disintegration ash piles or the use of energy weapons. After reading that I found both ash and goo piles persisting from critical hits with energy weapons is an old problem. Googled up two mods ("FOOK Ash Goo Pile Fix - Complete" and "Ash and Goo Begone") intended to fix the issue in general.

 

Comments in the "FOOK" version (which is a standalone separated out from the FOOK Overhaul) report it only affects "vanilla" piles, but not those from EVE weapons.

 

The other one clearly states that it does also remove piles of "named NPCs" (including those of "quest NPCS") so don't use energy weapons on them. It does NOT affect the placed Ash piles in the sacked caravans (they use a different ID) nor the Ash pile left in the Silver Rush after the first time you enter.

 

Neither mention OWB, but both mods were released after the DLC was (19 Jul 2011).

 

I don't use energy weapons myself, so I would appreciate hearing about any mod that solves the problem in OWB in particular. I will add an "issue" about the piles in general to the "Troubleshooting" guide.

 

Edit: Found "EVE - JIP Ash Pile Tweaks" - replaces EVE's new ash and goo puddles' implementation, from one that uses containers and scripts to move the deceased's contents to them, to a NVSE + JIP LN one that replicates the vanilla mechanics of the piles being activators. The pile's own scripts has been changed to remain until a cell reset takes place, instead of disappearing right when you revisited them.

 

-Dubious-

[LordEmm]

That's some interesting detective work isolating the problem to the cleanup of disintegration ash piles or the use of energy weapons. After reading that I found both ash and goo piles persisting from critical hits with energy weapons is an old problem. Googled up two mods ("FOOK Ash Goo Pile Fix - Complete" and "Ash and Goo Begone") intended to fix the issue in general.

 

Comments in the "FOOK" version (which is a standalone separated out from the FOOK Overhaul) report it only affects "vanilla" piles, but not those from EVE weapons.

 

The other one clearly states that it does also remove piles of "named NPCs" (including those of "quest NPCS") so don't use energy weapons on them. It does NOT affect the placed Ash piles in the sacked caravans (they use a different ID) nor the Ash pile left in the Silver Rush after the first time you enter.

 

Neither mention OWB, but both mods were released after the DLC was (19 Jul 2011).

 

I don't use energy weapons myself, so I would appreciate hearing about any mod that solves the problem in OWB in particular. I will add an "issue" about the piles in general to the "Troubleshooting" guide.

 

Edit: Found "EVE - JIP Ash Pile Tweaks" - replaces EVE's new ash and goo puddles' implementation, from one that uses containers and scripts to move the deceased's contents to them, to a NVSE + JIP LN one that replicates the vanilla mechanics of the piles being activators. The pile's own scripts has been changed to remain until a cell reset takes place, instead of disappearing right when you revisited them.

 

-Dubious-

I found both methods of Ash pile removal to be quite safe in the main game (FOOK's is in YUP as well, so no need to get both. Unofficial patch has a similar method, either or both can be used, for the MAIN game, as well as Dead Money for sure, uses a different spawning mechanism that does not seem to interfere). The problem is in how Old World Blues handles spawning and later removal of spawns, because it seems to link this to several activators which are initially disabled, and get filled with a spawn list by another script ad hoc. So, the removal then crashes because the ash piles are save game generated AND hooked to a temporary actor, which in turn is hooked to a quest item, which CAN not be disabled, or the script will crash. That is what i gleaned from it. You can not have any script disable the ash pile, OR the actor independent of each other, it seems. I have not found a full solution yet (as i said, scripting is not my main talent), but i am fairly sure that can be handled with a patch.

 

I can definitely confirm that avoiding energy weapons in the BigMT main map solves the problem. And i can also confirm that you CAN use energy weapons when indoors, as i just finished OWB with no problems at all anymore, even got all achievements (eg, the leaving the fence one, which would cause the crash, because of cocing back to the Sink, which then would cause a cleanup of the spawn zones as soon as you go outside, since there is one right in front of the sink). I have to assume the same is true for Honest Hearts, because of the similar scripts, will test that next, once i have time to play again.

 

I also did not use energy weapons before OWB much, but once getting the LAER i definitely wanted to tackle the "... and disintegrations" challenge, while there.

 

Glad i could help a little bit in solving this mystery.

And thank you very much for providing advice to all of us, DubiousIntent :)