Vortex FNIS Integration Feature - Bugged with PCEA2 (player character exclusive animations only) for FNIS by fore Installed

[H0LL0FIED]

1/30/2020 Update [PATCHED] - I installed Skyrim LE along with Vortex version 1.1.10 on 1/29/2020 on my new Ryzen computer that I built back in July 2019. I installed it the same way I did on my old computer except this time I installed everything on my 2nd SSD and that's the only difference. The bug mentioned in the topic I linked is patched as far as I can tell; it's not present in this version of Vortex. I haven't played Skyrim since I washed my hands of that topic back in March 2019 so I don't know exactly what version of Vortex the bug was patched on unfortunately.

^^

^^I have a copy of the install file for Vortex version 0.17.7 as well as my old FNIS/PCEA2 (untouched) archives, so I can still replicate the bug if for whatever reason I want/need to; I only have 8 mods installed at the moment. It would be childs play for me to replicate that bug just as I had before and record it then upload it to YouTube as my mod list is a fraction of what it was.

 

• Topic Visual Update: If Anyone has trouble reading my posts - Try holding Ctrl and scrolling your mouse wheel to zoom in on the page/text. This feature may be browser dependent - I'm currently using firefox/chrome. I've updated the topic and removed a lot of italics and some bold text and; I've enhanced the topic further with bullet/number lines.

Main Topic :

• This is a bug/issue report and it is also for those of you looking for a Solution to your Vortex FNIS Integration Bug for PCEA2 by fore on SKYRIM LE

(I do not know if this is also a bug for SKYRIM SE/VR)

• The Bug/Issue : Your Player Character Exclusive Animations are NOT working/showing-up/visible/loading in-game even after refreshing animations through MCM>FNIS_PCEA2 because of a bug/issue with Vortex FNIS Integration.
• The Temporary Solution : I've posted it in the steps below and links to this topic have been posted to the PCEA2 mod page under the POSTS and BUGS menu/tabs.

Note to Vortex devs/staff/etc. : Read everything in the main topic post (Also, read the red text related comments in my subsequent posts).

I've provided all the information I could think of here and what I read from the "how to request Vortex support" topic. I really just want to get back to installing/testing mods and eventually playing the game.

 

Information (LOUD APPLAUSE/SLOW CLAP) :

My OS : Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit

My Skyrim is Installed through STEAM

My Vortex Version : 0.17.7

The Game : SKYRIM Legendary Edition

Active Mod Count : 136 ATM - This is my 2nd week into modding and playing SKYRIM LE for the first time.

Mod Index Count : 6A

Extra Information : I've cleaned my main master files properly through TES5Edit via Gopher's Youtube videos and I'm using USLEEP (Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch).

Update : I've downloaded 99% of my installed mods via Vortex

 

Discord Contact Info : If you have a response post it in this topic (slower response) OR If you need extra information/screenshots quickly use Discord: PLEASE add me on Discord (Direct Message) or ping me in the Official Nexus Mods Discord. This is in the event that you need a faster/quick response assuming I'm not afk/at work/out.

 

My Discord Tag : #4745 - Add me if you need to...

My Discord Display Name : H0LL0FIED [Akali <3] - Ping me with @H0LL0FIED [Akali <3]

 

• Verifying and Troubleshooting the Bug Presented Below:

The STEPS to experience/replicate the bug - (For Vortex Staff/etc.) :

• - Make sure you've installed FNIS and FNIS PCEA2 + any player character exclusive animation mods.
• - Enable Vortex's FNIS Integration and re-deploy the mods and then FNIS Animations will Update.
• - Sort the mods in Vortex and start the game through the SKSE executable.
• - Open the console and run this command for our testing purposes: coc riverwood
• - Wait for MCM and any other prompts to finish displaying in the top left window.
• - The character exclusive animations will not be loaded. - (I believe this is related to MCM and Skyrim.)
• - Open MCM>FNIS PCEA2 and de-select/disable the installed animation mods and select the refresh animations option then exit back to the game. (Probably not needed but for the sake of replication do this anyway)
• - Re-open MCM>FNIS PCEA2 and select/enable the animation mods then select refresh animations and exit back to the game.
• - The player character exclusive animation mods should NOT load/show-up/be-visible/work in-game after doing this.
• - Exit the game then disable Vortex FNIS Integration.

SOLUTION - Steps to BYPASSING THE BUG Until a Patch is Released - (Steps below for anyone experiencing the bug) :

• Vortex FNIS Integration MUST BE DISABLED to Bypass - (You CANNOT use Vortex FNIS Integration until it's Patched if you want to use Player Character Exclusive Animations in-game via FNIS PCEA2 through the FNIS Tool/Mod).

• Keywords for newbies:
• MCM = Mod Configuration Manager (Hit the Esc key)
• Console = Hit this key ~

• - Make sure you've installed FNIS and FNIS PCEA2 + any player character exclusive animation mods (Visit the FNIS/PCEA2 mod pages for installation help/videos).
• - Run the FNIS Tool through Vortex or through your FNIS Install Directory. (See the FNIS mod page for help with the latter - for newbies)
• - Click "Generate FNIS for Users" or "Update FNIS Behavior", wait for it to finish and then click "Consistence Check" which should immediately display "0 possible consistence issues" which I believe is dependent upon conflicts with any animation mod(s) you've installed.
• - Deploy your mods through Vortex and Vortex should prompt you telling you that changes were made outside of Vortex, you should then select "save" or "newer file(s)" for everything and click Ok.
• - After deployment, sort your plugins through Vortex (Safe practice - Just Do It).
• - Run the game via the SKSE executable and start a new game or load one of your saves. (Faster alternative in Step 7 below.)
• - Alternatively you can enter this into the console to test your animations which is much faster for testing purposes: coc riverwood
• - When you load into the game your player character exclusive animations will not be loaded - (I believe this is related to MCM and Skyrim.)
• - Wait for MCM and other prompts to finish displaying in the top left corner.
• - Open MCM>FNIS PCEA2 and de-select/disable the animations and then select the refresh animations option then exit to the game. (Probably not needed but to be certain do this anyway)
• - Re-open MCM>FNIS PCEA2 and select/enable the animation mods you installed and select the refresh animations option then exit to the game.
• - The player character exclusive animations should work/load/show-up/be-visible in-game after following these steps.
• - Exit the game or return to the main menu (if you ran the game via the coc riverwood console command)

Conclusion :

After having done the steps above I've come to the conclusion that the Vortex FNIS Integration Feature (however it has been implemented) is a GREAT Feature but is incomplete/bugged and does NOT function properly with "PCEA2 for FNIS by fore" installed (at least on my installs skyrim/vortex/fnis/etc.).

 

 

IMPORTANT: Further Bug experience/replication Info :

• - My Skyrim LE is installed in one of the default program folders for Windows 7 Home Premium
• - This is the same install location for FNIS and PCEA2 for FNIS and this install location should Not be an issue or a cause for the bug seeing as the FNIS Tool (installed in this location) makes PCEA2 function properly in-game without Vortex FNIS Integration Enabled.
• - The two animation mods I've installed and have been using are "Realistic Animation Project - Idles 1.1" and "Realistic Animation Project - Movement 1.2" both mods are by the same author/user on the Nexus: FeuerTin

EXTRA IMPORTANT INFO in response to "Tannin" and "yggdrasil75" responses ON THE NEXUS DISCORD :

• - Thank you for your responses
• - Most people are probably playing Skyrim SE/VR ( I don't know if this bug is also present in those versions ) so I wouldn't be surprised if you haven't seen this problem before.
• - Nexus User xp32 created the original PCEA mod and Nexus User fore created FNIS and PCEA2 for FNIS.
• - The PCEA Option in "Configure FNIS" is an exclusive patch to xp32's original PCEA mod as far as I could tell. Fore did not mention enabling this feature anywhere (not in installation instructions either) in his PCEA2 mod page or the mod page for FNIS. It is obvious this is not needed for FNIS and PCEA2; as the animation mods function properly when updating behaviors directly through the FNIS Tool with Vortex FNIS Integration Disabled.

Extra :

View Attached Image Below: The FNIS Output from the FNIS Tool after disabling Vortex FNIS Integration and running the FNIS Tool. This image also displays the Vortex FNIS Integration Feature (Disabled/Set to No) to the right of the FNIS Tool Window.

 

I installed Vortex roughly 2 weeks ago so older installs of Vortex for some of you may not show the Vortex FNIS Integration option located there (See the posts below by HadToRegister and Myself).

Edited January 30, 2020 by H0LL0FIED

[H0LL0FIED]

This was originally posted exclusively to the Official Nexus Discord but I'm about to remove it because the spam bot on the server made it a pain to read after I attempted to post/edit the contents of my message. Fed up with it so just deleting the message from there and providing a link here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT : Oh and I'm heading off to work soon so it'll be awhile if anyone needs a response.
UPDATE : Minor edits made to first post for clarity.

This topic should probably be stickied until a patch is implemented (Though I've already posted the link for this to the PCEA2 mod page).

Edited March 12, 2019 by DeusX7

[HadToRegister]

Hmmm, I don't have any problems with PCEA2


Did you make sure to shut this off?

[H0LL0FIED]

Hmmm, I don't have any problems with PCEA2

 

 

Did you make sure to shut this off?

 

 

Just got the call into work so I'll try to be brief.

 

That option is "Vortex Fnis Integration"

- Vortex FNIS Integration functions perfectly if it is Enabled and you've installed animation mods (They show up in-game).

- Vortex FNIS Integration does not function correctly if you're using exclusive player character animations (PCEA2 - They don't show up in-game).

- Vortex FNIS Integration will function well-enough to install ALL Non-exclusive player character animations correctly even with PCEA2 Installed.

 

To answer your question: Yes that is shut off

That option in the image you provided and the option displayed off to the side in Vortex (See Attachment Image I provided above) are both linked, they're the exact same thing :smile:

 

Off to work best of luck :D Hold my beer Mr. Beer Ambassador :laugh:

Edited March 12, 2019 by DeusX7

[fore]

DeusX7, why do you open a new thread here before you even have responded to my questions in the PCEA2 thread? Don't be daunted because I don't consider your issue a problem yet. That's mostly because your reports are more than vague. "Animations are NOT showing-up" isn't useful at all. Still I have given you some steps which allow me to have a look.

 

Here my response for reference:

 

 

Slowly, slowly... :smile:

So far you are the only one reporting this issue, which would be quite unlikely if it should be a general problem. Right now I don't even know if there is a problem at all. "Weren't showing in game". What does this mean? How did you verify that? You wouldn't be the first that I have seen who didn't understand what to expect when.

Go to to the PCEA2 MCM, check Oriental Swordsmanship and uncheck everything else, and then perform a sword (1hand) attack animation. Does it show katana like animation?
If not, start a new game (I hope you have Alternate Start), and do the same test.
If still doesn't show, activate the Papyrus log, do the test, upload your Papyrus log on a server, and post the link here.

Generally I can't help with Vortex. Whenever I work on FNIS (which I currently do) I cannot use a virtual install file manager myself. Also I'm heavily against this FNIS Enabled option. Noobs should lern to understand what animation mods are doing. And experienced users should not suffer from unnecessary FNIS runs. They can take minutes. For nothing when you don't change an animation dependent mod.

 

[H0LL0FIED]

Hello Fore!,

• First, I would like to apologize again for direct messaging you about this bug that I've come across with Vortex.
• I sent you a direct message last night before I fully understood where the bug was coming from. I woke up today and checked my responses on the Nexus Mods Official Discord Server with regards to the bug.

Upon reading the 2 responses I got from "Tannin" and "yggdrasil75" I decided to test the bug some more. After testing some more I came to the conclusion that FNIS and PCEA2 are NOT at fault for this bug.
This is an issue/bug related to Vortex and Vortex Devs/Staff/etc. are likely the ones that will need to patch the Vortex Integration Feature for FNIS with regards to how it handles your PCEA2 mod.

• After doing those tests and coming to the conclusion above I regretted direct messaging you (fore) and bothering you with this since this is Not an issue/bug directly related to your mods.

I apologize if it seems like I Ignored your response on your PCEA2 mod page, after I woke up today I completely forgot about checking for any responses on your PCEA2 mod page.
I actually did not even notice you had read my direct message until I sent you my most recent direct message apologizing for bothering you, this was immediately before I had to leave for work (I work Night Shifts).

 

• I apologize if my report in the BUGS/POSTS section on your mod page for PCEA2 was too vague with regards to the bug. I'll try to clean both of those up, I may even just wipe most of the text from those and provide a link to this topic seeing as doing all this has taken a lot of my free time already. I honestly just want to get back to modding my skyrim/testing the mods and moving on to playing the game as soon as possible, again... this is my 2nd week into modding Skyrim LE.

If I knew last night what I know now I would not have direct messaged you since you aren't responsible for patching this bug.
Thank You for the mods you've given to the community, they're Great :thumbsup:

 

Main Response (red text for vortex staff - read relevant comments) : Bulleted lines are answers/responses to fore.

• I verified the bug via the first and second set of numbered steps mentioned above in the first post for this topic.

Furthermore, when I say that the player character exclusive animations "were not showing up in-game", I mean that the player character exclusive animations I downloaded did not appear on my in-game character after having properly installed the character exclusive animations through the Vortex FNIS Integration feature.
^^^^^^^^
To elaborate on the above even further beyond what I've already clarified (Main post has been edited) :
Again, this means that when I installed my character exclusive animations and ran the game I could only see the installed animations I use for NPC's on my player character, I could NOT see the character exclusive animations that I installed for my character.

• Again I apologize for the vagueness in the posts I made on your PCEA2 mod page, I will clean those up and redirect them here via a link soon after I've posted this seeing as this has not been patched yet as no one other than myself has posted with regards to this bug. I suspect this is because most people have moved on to SKYRIM SE/VR and I do not know if this bug is present in those versions with Vortex.

 

• I deleted the pre-installed animation mods you included with PCEA2 already. I did this in the early stages of my bug testing yesterday/today to make sure they weren't the cause of my issues since there is a folder limit for PCEA2 (folders numbered 0-9) which you mentioned on your PCEA2 mod page.

^^ I did NOT do anything to the behaviors file or any other files/scripts/text documents or folders that came included with the PCEA2 mod.

Again, PCEA2 functions perfectly when animations/behaviors are updated via the FNIS Tool DIRECTLY. :thumbsup:

 

• I have Alternate Start but I find it's faster and easier to use Skyrims console to instantly run the game for mod testing via the command: coc riverwood

Thanks to a Moderator on the Nexus Discord named: achintyagk for telling me about this command.
Using the command above with the console also prevents the game from auto-saving when I load into riverwood for testing so it's faster/easier than alternate start for mod testing.

• I don't have Papyrus? installed but I am willing to install it if asked again. Steps need to be provided (for me) so I can supply the required log(s) if that program isn't simple to use since it would be my first time using it. At the moment I feel this is no longer needed seeing as the issue/bug is not related to FNIS or PCEA2 directly, it is a bug with the "Vortex FNIS Integration" feature and not the mods themselves.

 

• Before I noticed this bug, I did Not run Vortex FNIS Integration every time I deployed.

I only deployed with Integration enabled whenever I wanted to install/remove/enable/disable or update my animation mods. I did this because deployment took too long with Vortex FNIS Integration enabled every single time I wanted to add a new mod and test it.
^^^ This subject is negligible as Vortex FNIS Integration can be disabled and enabled with One Click through the DASHBOARD menu/tab in Vortex via the "LET'S GET YOU SET UP" box/mini-window.

• Vortex FNIS Integration is a great feature and should not be removed even if this bug cannot be fixed, it's a great feature for those not using PCEA2 that know what they're doing.

If the "Vortex FNIS Integration with Player Character Exclusive Animations" bug cannot be patched then Vortex users need to know about it via any means available.

 

• I'm not new to installing mods, just new to installing them with Skyrim LE. I've played Oblivion and installed mods with Oblivion Mod Manager back in 2012 and 2013. I don't have an extensive understanding of mods but I'm not inexperienced with them :thumbsup:

TL;DR for those just passing through :
There is nothing wrong with Fore's mods themselves - FNIS and PCEA2 are functioning as intended without issues.
The Vortex FNIS Integration feature is at fault for the bug I've mentioned above in this topic.
If ANYONE is confused about any of this go back and read it again because I would rather not elaborate any further than I already have, this post included.

FABULOUS~ picture of my idle animation in action below :laugh: (installed via the FNIS Tool directly since Vortex Integration is bugged). I was too lazy to open the console "showracemenu" and switch to a female while bug testing.


I apologize if it seems as though I've burst into the room guns blazing :laugh: as I haven't really taken a breather from this issue/bug over the last 24-ish hours outside of sleep and work (see image below for reference).

I won't apologize for BOLD or ALL-CAPS WORDS/LINES or RED TEXT in any of my posts in the event that someone is "offended" as I honestly do not care. These effects are used to aid/help the reading experience and to signify importance. :thumbsup:

Edited March 13, 2019 by DeusX7

[Tannin42]

Hi fore!

 

Pardon my ignorance but is there a technical difference between PCEA and other animations?

 

I didn't know you were against FNIS automation, is there something we can do to alleviate your concerns?

 

Right now, Vortex tries to avoid running fnis unnecessarily by calculating a hash over all files that match these regular expressions: /\\FNIS_.*_List\.txt$/, /\\FNIS.*Behavior\.txt$/, /\\PatchList\.txt$/, /\\skeleton.*\.hkx$/, /\\animations\\.*\.hkx$/ (all case insensitive), so if none of these have changed (and none have been added or removed) then FNIS isn't run.

This should prevent unnecessary runs, although calculating all these hashes isn't free either.

 

Regarding new users, tbh. I don't think most users really try to understand animations, they will just run the tool and hope for the best. By having the FNIS automation we at least avoid help requests like "All my animations are just T-poses, what do I do?".

But I'm open to integrating some kind of beginners guide. Vortex can integrate youtube videos as tutorials or plain text, so if you have a video or guide that you'd like users to read before using FNIS I'm happy to integrate it.

[H0LL0FIED]

Right now, Vortex tries to avoid running fnis unnecessarily by calculating a hash over all files that match these regular expressions: /\\FNIS_.*_List\.txt$/, /\\FNIS.*Behavior\.txt$/, /\\PatchList\.txt$/, /\\skeleton.*\.hkx$/, /\\animations\\.*\.hkx$/ (all case insensitive), so if none of these have changed (and none have been added or removed) then FNIS isn't run.

This should prevent unnecessary runs, although calculating all these hashes isn't free either.

 

FYI - From personal experience over the last 2 weeks: If Vortex FNIS Integration is Enabled - Enabling/Disabling new/old mods causes "Updating FNIS Animations" to display (usually after post-deployment processes?). This has happened with all my mods, even the ones that just replace textures like "Skyrim HD 2K Textures".

This is negligible as Vortex FNIS Integration can be easily disabled/enabled prior to deployment (toggling Integration on/off will not effect a deployment that is currently in-progress).

 

Vortex FNIS Integration should only be enabled by the User when updating animation mods.

Vortex users should have an ample understanding of their installed mods before use - If they don't well... that's what Vortex is supposed to be for: Enabling/Disabling/Re-installing/Removing any and all mods completely at the click of a button.

Vortex is intended for experienced and in-experienced users as it allows any mistakes to be undone at the click of a button so that anyone can easily retry a fresh install of any mod (hassle free).

 

 

- Off to bed, Good luck :thumbsup:

Edited March 13, 2019 by DeusX7

[fore]

Hi fore!

 

Pardon my ignorance but is there a technical difference between PCEA and other animations?

 

I didn't know you were against FNIS automation, is there something we can do to alleviate your concerns?

 

Right now, Vortex tries to avoid running fnis unnecessarily by calculating a hash over all files that match these regular expressions: /\\FNIS_.*_List\.txt$/, /\\FNIS.*Behavior\.txt$/, /\\PatchList\.txt$/, /\\skeleton.*\.hkx$/, /\\animations\\.*\.hkx$/ (all case insensitive), so if none of these have changed (and none have been added or removed) then FNIS isn't run.

This should prevent unnecessary runs, although calculating all these hashes isn't free either.

 

Regarding new users, tbh. I don't think most users really try to understand animations, they will just run the tool and hope for the best. By having the FNIS automation we at least avoid help requests like "All my animations are just T-poses, what do I do?".

But I'm open to integrating some kind of beginners guide. Vortex can integrate youtube videos as tutorials or plain text, so if you have a video or guide that you'd like users to read before using FNIS I'm happy to integrate it.

 

Hi Tannin,

 

I think you have to excuse my ignorance, since I had no idea that you are using such queries. I was looking for this kind of information (admittedly some time ago) and could not find anything to this regard. (Just as I have looked for information about which type of hard/soft link is used when, and what it means when users try to make changes directly in the Vortex mod folders).

 

Of course that changes my view about FNIS automation to some extent, although not completely. With this kind of noob support users are kept from learning that modding means more than just clicking a button. That they should learn the basics, and what it takes, and where, to make all these changes. Let them learn it. If they don't they will will blame everything on Vortex. See this support thread.

 

In my opinion "All my animations are just T-poses" is over emphasized anyway. You don't get general t-pose by just installing a new mod. You only get it when you install behavior files or skeletons from "the other" Skyrim. Or when you remove a behavior file, usually from an FNIS dependent mod. Everything else is just missing functionality, or t-pose during certain animations.

 

My concern is more that people cannot be helped when they don't have an FNIS output. Or even don't know how to get one. And the most urging issue right now: load CTD because of too many custom animations (usually 12 to 13 k). That one comes out of nowhere when users don't even have an idea how many animations that have installed. I'm working on a "formula" to be able to give an installation specific warnings. But that will still need some time. For that I already have done some hundreds load tests, and probably need some more.

 

And btw "Patchlist" is unnecessary. That comes with the FNIS release. What might be wanted is MyPatches.txt. They include what the user has ticked the last time.

[fore]

TL;DR for those just passing through :

There is nothing wrong with Fore's mods themselves - FNIS and PCEA2 are functioning as intended without issues.

The Vortex FNIS Integration feature is at fault for the bug I've mentioned above in this topic.

If ANYONE is confused about any of this go back and read it again because I would rather not elaborate any further than I already have, this post included.

 

DeusX7, please have mercy with us. I'm not able to read and/or keep in mind all the text you provide. Can't it be just 20 lines, but with PRECISE information? And without assumptions where the issue is? You don't have the background for assignments, and I rather think that the real issue is your messing around with PCEA2 files.

 

Do and respond to the given requests. You say that you you have executed step one and two of my requests. But have you really done so with the Swordsmanship attack? Because you mentioned (and I have a hard time finding it in this whole wall of text):

 

I deleted the pre-installed animation mods you included with PCEA2 already. I did this in the early stages of my bug testing yesterday/today to make sure they weren't the cause of my issues since there is a folder limit for PCEA2 (folders numbered 0-9) which you mentioned on your PCEA2 mod page.

 

 

So how did you do this? (Remove existing, and probably include new animation sets)

And is Swordsmanship still part of your test setup?

 

Also about Papyrus: that's something you can easily find with Google. It would take me some time as well figuring out what I did to activate it years ago.