Vortex FNIS Integration Feature - Bugged with PCEA2 (player character exclusive animations only) for FNIS by fore Installed

[HadToRegister]

Can his problem be caused by having his TARGET and START IN folders set wrong in the Dashboard?
I know his problem is in Skyrim LE, but they're so similar I don't see how they could work for SE but not LE


My TARGET

D:\Games\Steam\steamapps\common\Skyrim Special Edition\Data\tools\GenerateFNIS_for_Users\GenerateFNISForUsers.exe


My START IN
D:\Games\Steam\steamapps\common\Skyrim Special Edition\Data\tools\GenerateFNIS_for_Users\

His text is too painful to read, especially if you use the DARK forum theme, half italic and half red, really wears down my bifocals after a while.

[H0LL0FIED]

@fore @Vortex Staff/etc. - (Anything directly below bulleted/numbered lines should be considered subject matter for the above).

I apologize if my first response is unorganized/hard-to-read, I divided up the sections as best I could and provided responses to your questions in the order they were asked as best I could. I know it's an overwhelming wall of text but it does have some organization.

• See Main Response in my first response to you and compare with your questions (@Fore - They're in order).

^^^ Update: I've gone back and edited my responses as well as my main post for those having trouble reading/etc. (for everyone and fore)

 

• @fore
• Any "noob" can have an adequate understanding of mods if they're willing to learn. I know where mods are installed through Vortex and where those installs go when you enable mods through Vortex. I've got a "decent" understanding of mod directories and why they're layed out the way they are after installation and after enabling through Vortex.
• I've read all the mod descriptions for mods I've installed from top to bottom before installation, texture mods included. My understanding of these mods improves as I've done this.
• I dabbled in modding Oblivion back in 2012/2013 and moving onto Skyrim LE now over the last 2 weeks has done wonders for refreshing my memory.
• I did not experiment with the bug well enough before I direct messaged you the first time and because of this I did not have an adequate understanding of the source of the bug. I do now... :thumbsup: which is why I'm sorry for direct messaging you and bothering you at all.

 

 

Main Response : (Compare with your most recent questions @fore - they're in order)

 

• I'm sorry for all the text but that's as clear and precise as I can get while responding with my information as best I can, I'm hooman what more can I say. :smile:

^ Update: I've enhanced and modified all of my prior comments to try and make it easier for you and everyone else to read.

 

• I apologize if it appears I have made assumptions with regards to the Vortex Bug - It is Not an assumption as I have clearly verified the bug via steps in my first post as there is Nothing wrong with my installation of FNIS or FNIS PCEA2; they both function properly and work like a charm when the FNIS Tool is run outside of Vortex. Vortex FNIS Integration does not function properly with player character exclusive animations using PCEA2.

 

• I apologize to all of you for the walls of text, I've done the best I can to organize them and provide ALL the information that could possibly be needed to replicate the bug I'm experiencing with Vortex FNIS Integration (FNIS and FNIS PCEA2 function properly via the FNIS Tool - They are not the source of the bug < Not an assumption). :thumbsup:

 

If anyone/vortex staff still thinks I've made assumptions with regards to the bug go back and read my first post and follow the steps on your own install, that is what bug replication is for (verification).

 

Steps I took for removing the included animation mods that came with FNIS PCEA2 :

• The only folders/files I removed were the pre-installed animation mod folders/files you included with PCEA2.
• I removed your included animation mods prior to enabling the PCEA2 mod in Vortex (This means they weren't installed in the data folder since the mod wasn't enabled).

1. I removed all included animation mod folders/files from PCEA2 by going to where vortex installs mods outside the data folder and deleting them.
2. C:\Users\*******\*****\******\Vortex\skyrim\mods\FNIS PCEA2 1.3-71055-1-3\Meshes\actors\character\animations\FNIS_PCEA2
3. ^ This is the Vortex install directory where you included animations with your PCEA2 mod; I deleted those and touched Nothing else. Even the text documents in that directory are still intact.
4. I then enabled PCEA2 through Vortex which then deployed the PCEA2 mod from that directory into my data folder without the included animation mods you provided since I deleted them properly.
5. END STEPS

 

• Swordsmanship is not part of my test setup if it was included with the mods that you provided for PCEA2.
• The animation sets I installed myself have been posted above in the first topic post under one of the sections with RED TEXT as I considered it potentially important for bug replication and I will post it again below....

 

Please... if anyone has more vortex/fnis/fnis pcea2/animation installation related questions, double check back with my first post (and other posts - updated)... I know it's a lot but everything I could think of is already provided there under appropriate sections.

Henceforth, I will ignore questions I have already answered.

 

Animation sets used:

• Realistic Animation Project - Movement 1.2
• Realistic Animation Project - Idles 1.1
• The above mods are authored by FeuerTin on the Nexus

 

I found Papyrus easily via Google when you first mentioned it so I could check and see if I'd already installed it. I included the question mark in my first response to help clarify that I have no experience with papyrus as I do not have it installed.

Again I do not think this is necessary anymore as the bug is not related to FNIS or FNIS PCEA2 whatsoever; the bug is exclusive to Vortex Integration with FNIS.

If you or Vortex staff despite this would still like to see the papyrus log let me know and I will look into installing Papyrus and getting the log. :thumbsup:

Edited March 13, 2019 by DeusX7

[H0LL0FIED]

@HadToRegister

 

• I wear glasses too I apologize if it's hard to read, you could try holding Ctrl and scrolling your mouse wheel to zoom in on the page (hopefully this helps).

^ This may be browser dependent but I'm not sure, I currently run firefox/chrome.

 

 

Update: I went back to the first post and removed a lot of the excess italics, this should help.

 

Update 2: Main topic post has been enhanced further for easy reading. I likely did not think to make these enhancements initially seeing as I'm "lazy" and I can't apologize for the laziness of my mind as laziness is currently a part of who I am. :thumbsup:

 

Attached image below : In response to HadToRegister's recent question.

Edited March 12, 2019 by DeusX7

[simondent2]

I had a problem with FNIS. FNIS will not run and load some mods without the latest Java update.

[H0LL0FIED]

I had a problem with FNIS. FNIS will not run and load some mods without the latest Java update.

 

It sounds like an issue with some of those mods and not FNIS directly as fore does not state on the FNIS Mod Page that an updated Java is required.

Solution: Just keep your java updated or don't use those mods - I don't know what mods those are so I have no idea why they would need an updated java to run with FNIS. :thumbsup:

Edited March 13, 2019 by DeusX7

[H0LL0FIED]

The attached file below is the Realistic Animation Project - Idle 1.1 installation directory for Vortex.

I am using the default locations for Vortex but have edited them out of the provided image.

Realistic Animation Project - Movement 1.2 is installed in similar fashion in the directory for Vortex.

 

There are also folders labeled "female" and "male" (animations for npc's/everyone) in the "animations" directory displayed in the image. I believe this is the same for the data folder in my skyrims install location; I don't feel like checking at the moment.

 

As I do not know yet for certain if Vortex staff/etc. have replicated this bug successfully via my steps; I am willing to provide more screenshots of my skyrim data directories.

The bug source?: How Vortex Integration works/functions with any/all animation mods installed in the data directory. If anyone wants screens of my data directories with/without vortex fnis integration enabled, ask....

 

Heading off for now - spent too much time on this today too as is....

Edited March 13, 2019 by DeusX7

[fore]

As I do not know yet for certain if Vortex staff/etc. have replicated this bug successfully via my steps...

 

WHICH BUGS????? User errors are called mistakes, not bugs. :D

 

Seriously, DeusX7. Your handling YOUR PERSONAL problem as if modding at Nexus is at stakes. Write dozens (or hundreds?) of lines trying to explain everything, but nothing really useful. But you failed responding to the questions and requests I have made three times now. Responses that had lead to the REAL issue long ago: your NAIVE messing around with mod files.

 

Into the Vortex Mod directories for RAP (where users should be GENERALLY FORBIDDEN to mess around) you have been copying some ARBITRARY file structure from PCEA2, and now you expect them both work together. How shall this happen? Magic spell????

 

If you had spent a fraction of the time your spent writing this whole thread for reading in the PCEA2 instructions how to add custom animations, then you might have come to the conclusion yourself that what you do is simply wrong.

 

But this whole Odyssey has one positive effect. It underlines my point:

 

With this kind of noob support (FNIS Integration) users are kept from learning that modding means more than just clicking a button. That they should learn the basics, and what it takes, and where, to make all these changes. Let them learn it. If they don't they will will blame everything on Vortex. See this support thread.

 

[fore]

Can his problem be caused by having his TARGET and START IN folders set wrong in the Dashboard?

I know his problem is in Skyrim LE, but they're so similar I don't see how they could work for SE but not LE

 

 

My TARGET

D:\Games\Steam\steamapps\common\Skyrim Special Edition\Data\tools\GenerateFNIS_for_Users\GenerateFNISForUsers.exe

 

 

My START IN

D:\Games\Steam\steamapps\common\Skyrim Special Edition\Data\tools\GenerateFNIS_for_Users\

 

His text is too painful to read, especially if you use the DARK forum theme, half italic and half red, really wears down my bifocals after a while.

 

Now I know why it was so painful to read. I thought it's because I'm not a native English speaker. Now I know. I'm wearing glasses as well. :D

 

But I have a question to you. Is it really true that "My Start" has to be set when installing FNIS? I've read that before, and I have spread this information myself. But there is a new video from GamerPoet about installing FNIS in Vortex and MO2, and he didn't have this parameter. I told him about this discrepancy. But he has tested it that way, and he told me it is common understanding among tutorial makers.

[Tannin42]

 

Hi Tannin,

 

I think you have to excuse my ignorance, since I had no idea that you are using such queries. I was looking for this kind of information (admittedly some time ago) and could not find anything to this regard. (Just as I have looked for information about which type of hard/soft link is used when, and what it means when users try to make changes directly in the Vortex mod folders).

 

Of course that changes my view about FNIS automation to some extent, although not completely. With this kind of noob support users are kept from learning that modding means more than just clicking a button. That they should learn the basics, and what it takes, and where, to make all these changes. Let them learn it. If they don't they will will blame everything on Vortex. See this support thread.

 

In my opinion "All my animations are just T-poses" is over emphasized anyway. You don't get general t-pose by just installing a new mod. You only get it when you install behavior files or skeletons from "the other" Skyrim. Or when you remove a behavior file, usually from an FNIS dependent mod. Everything else is just missing functionality, or t-pose during certain animations.

 

My concern is more that people cannot be helped when they don't have an FNIS output. Or even don't know how to get one. And the most urging issue right now: load CTD because of too many custom animations (usually 12 to 13 k). That one comes out of nowhere when users don't even have an idea how many animations that have installed. I'm working on a "formula" to be able to give an installation specific warnings. But that will still need some time. For that I already have done some hundreds load tests, and probably need some more.

 

And btw "Patchlist" is unnecessary. That comes with the FNIS release. What might be wanted is MyPatches.txt. They include what the user has ticked the last time.

 

 

Sorry for the late reply.

Regarding what you said about noobs learning the ropes on modding, I agree insofar as that modding isn't trivial, especially the moment you move past simple texture replacers and such and that users need to learn how to use them.

The problem is that they frequently don't and tools like steam workshop, bethesda.net or that other modding site that shall not be mentioned don't make this easier, they create the illusion that modding is plug&play and don't really cater for more complex mods at all.

 

One problem is that there is so much that new users need to learn, like running fnis, cleaning plugins, merging plugins, dealing with install and load order, esls vs esms, ...

The impression users get is they can either go to those other pages and get a plug&play experience or they come here and have to deal with all this complexity all at once.

 

What we try with Vortex is keep things easy until it's absolutely necessary users deal with it, e.g. we don't ask users to learn how to order their plugins, we try to automate it but provide help for when the automation fails. We're not hiding the complexity entirely, we try to expose the user to it in a "staggered" fashion so users don't have to learn all at once.

 

In that spirit, instead of telling first time users "you may see CTDs once you go over x custom animations" and expect them to remember that, I would rather not trouble a new user with that information and instead provide diagnostics once it starts becoming relevant (e.g. if (number_of_custom_animations > 5000) then notify_user("dude, you have a lot of custom animations, if you're seeing the game CTD, this may be the reason. Please press this link to learn more")).

Have users learn what they need to know as they grow their mod installation, not everything up-front.

This is obviously a tall order though, as it does require us (Vortex developers) to know about the common issues and signs to watch for. hence if you do have common issues, especially when they seem to be intensified by Vortex, feel free to send us a quick message like "see issue <link> - vortex is making this worse" or "see issue <link> - vortex could do better helping to avoid/fix this".

It should be our problem, not yours, if our users don't know enough about using FNIS when going through Vortex.

[H0LL0FIED]

Quote by fore: "But I have a question to you. Is it really true that "My Start" has to be set when installing FNIS? I've read that before, and I have spread this information myself. But there is a new video from GamerPoet about installing FNIS in Vortex and MO2, and he didn't have this parameter. I told him about this discrepancy. But he has tested it that way, and he told me it is common understanding among tutorial makers."

My response:
I do not think you need to do that if you're just installing FNIS.
You only have to do that if you're integrating a shortcut to FNIS in Vortex.



@fore
Go back and re-read my first post and subsequent posts, the bug I've been referring to is clearly stated.
I have not made any user errors as clearly stated in my prior posts via the information I have provided.
I did not realize you weren't a native english speaker.
I now understand why you can't see reasoning and I apologize for bringing this topic to your attention as it has nothing to do with your mods directly.
I apologize furthermore because I am unwilling to explain anything further to better aid you with your understanding.
I'm sorry you think I've made a big deal out of this; I've made a humble and detailed bug report for Vortex support to look at with regards to the game Skyrim LE and have provided all the relevant information I could think of (this includes what you have asked for with the exception of papyrus logs).

I've repeatedly gone back and enhanced prior posts to better aid the reading experience, wasting more of my free time, which I will no longer do.
I've responded to your messages and the messages from "HadToRegister" and provided as MUCH information back as possible (exception: papyrus) as clearly as I could for the benefit of Vortex staff/support.

I understand this could be because you aren't a native english speaker and again I apologize....
I have clearly stated that I have an adequate understanding of mods and how they function with/without Vortex; this is apparent and obvious via my previous posts.
I have not dabbled in forces unknown to me as though I were a naive child who wants his mods to work at the click of a button (This is clear via my clearly stated previous responses and I will not clarify upon them any further as my blood pressure at this time cannot take it).

Thank you again for all the mods you have provided for the community, they function perfectly :thumbsup:

This is my final response to fore until I believe he is able to see reason :sad:


@Vortex Staff/Support
If you want MY papyrus logs I will sacrifice more time, look into papyrus, and provide my logs but you must ask for them.
Again, at the moment, I do not feel that I need to provide my papyrus logs as I currently believe this issue can be replicated with the information provided and is indirectly related to FNIS/PCEA2 and any animation mods.
Vortex staff/support must exclusively ask for my papyrus logs as the issue/bug is directly related to the mod-manager Vortex via it's integration feature with FNIS and how it handles animations via PCEA2 and/or other animation mods.

This is a bug report topic, I have done my job and notified you of the issue after properly verifying the bug and providing all relevant information I could think of.
I've also provided replication steps and all relevant info I could think of to replicate the bug on your end.
If you need any more information or screenshots please respond saying as such or contact me.

If any of you have had trouble replicating this bug with other animation mods it is HIGHLY RECOMMENDED that you use the 2 animation mods I provided in the main post and my recent responses. Download and install/enable them via Vortex and their respective mod pages directly.
If you're trying to replicate the bug do NOT follow the steps in my first post regarding the work around/solution; this should be painfully obvious.

I have a work around for the Vortex FNIS Integration function which I have obviously provided in my main post for everyone (mainly the newbs like me) to use. My selected animation mods function perfectly via this work around which means this issue/bug is low priority.
I will not be checking back with this topic until Sunday at the earliest as I do not have much free time between now and then because of work. Plus I'm just done with this topic and need a break. :sick:

 

Update: Edits to post are complete/finished.


Sincerely and Good bye for now,

H0LL0FIED

Edited March 13, 2019 by DeusX7