Suggestion thread for Vortex improvements

[Mornedil]

(apologies in advance if this sounds like complaining. It's hard to point out flaws with something without it seeming like whining.

And if you don't want to read a wall of text, just scroll down to the comparison with screenshots and read the TLDR)

 

Like many other people, my first experience with vortex was "what the hell is this, and why is it the new standard over NMM?"

But just saying "it sucks" without giving an explanation doesn't help them improve it.

 

The very first impression I had after installing Vortex was that it had a nice color scheme, and I was easily able to select the game I wanted to use, and downloading mods from the NexusMods worked the same way. So far, so good.

 

However, during the download process, it was trying to download the same mod twice, and I only noticed after it had downloaded over 300mb of data, so I had to manually cancel the duplicate.

Maybe it should check if it's a duplicate before trying to download?

 

after the mods were done downloading, I clicked the install button on a mod, but got no notification. So as the impatient PC user I am, I clicked it again. And then a third time when nothing happened. Only then did I notice that the installation progress had appeared in the notification area in the top right corner. Perhaps not the best placement? So make it more obvious that installation is in progress, just something small as changing the "install" button to "installing..."

 

And then came the big issue, which is what made me go from "maybe i just need to get used to the software", to "what the hell kind of design is this?"

 

The actual mod management...

 

The user interface (for mods) doesn't have much of a structure, it all just blends into one long list with each mod taking up too much space. In full screen, I can only see 12 mods at a time before having to scroll.

 

other than the user interface registering like white noise in my brain (making it hard to find the mod I'm looking for at a quick glance), why can't you manually change the load order?

It's nice that there is an automatic sorting option, but that's all it should be. An option. If a user messes up the load order, that's on them. having this grouping system is just extremely inconvenient and triggers me when it's listing different ESP files of the same mod in the "wrong" order, and not even next to each other.

 

Another reason why this seems bad to me is because people don't want to spend all their time in the mod manager setting things up. You want it to be an easy-to-use tool that lets you quickly set up and group your mods, so even tho the grouping system in Vortex is very sophisticated, there's nothing more annoying than a software that thinks forcing an automatic system is better than letting the user manually do something.

 

 

 

 

Let's compare Nexus Mod Manager's mod interface with Vortex to find out why people seem to dislike Vortex after using NMM:

 

Nexus Mod Manager:

Compact and informative interface. Groups appear separately, making it easy to find what you're looking for, and you can drag & drop mods to manage them or put them in a different group.

 

 

 

Vortex:

"Monotone" interface, doesn't distinguish groups from each other which makes everything blend together. The UI provides very little information in the overview. No mod version, author, install date, or anything. Yet each mod takes up tons of unnecessary space in the UI. You can't drag & drop mods, click them, or even right click them for an easy accessible pop-up menu with actions to perform, like you can do in NMM.

This screenshot is the same size as the NMM screenshot, which shows just how little fits in the same area:

 

 

 

Nexus Mod Manager lets you drag and drop mods to change load order:

 

 

 

Vortex makes it too tedious to organize load order:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

TLDR;

A mod manager should allow you to easily manage your mods and get a good overview of them. People don't want to spend ages setting things up. And sadly, Vortex completely fails to be user friendly. People shouldn't have to watch tutorials to do something as basic as adjusting load order. (A user interface is like a joke. If you have to explain it, it's probably not that good)

Edited July 24, 2019 by Mornedil

[HadToRegister]

The user interface doesn't have much of a structure, it all just blends into one long list with each mod taking up too much space. In full screen, I can only see 12 mods at a time before having to scroll.

 

Go to SETTINGS------>THEME-------->pick "COMPACT"

 

 

The UI provides very little information in the overview. No mod version, author, install date, or anything.

 

Double click on a mod, a right panel opens up with all of the mod info

 

 

 

 

 

There is no need EVER to drag and drop ESPS, in Vortex.

Turn on AUTOSORT, and let Built-In LOOT do it for you.

The important Sorting takes place in the MOD tab, where you choose which Textures and Meshes overwrite each other.

Also, I'd like to point out that the "Group" picture is a bit misleading in the claim that you HAVE to sort ESPs by assigning them to groups.

You do NOT have to assign ESPS to groups, and you actually very rarely if ever, have to sort the ESPS at all, but only on rare occasions.

Such as, I have 279 ESPS in Skyrim SE, out of that 279, I have 5 manually sorted.

So, that "Solar System" is just an overwiew of the hierarchy of Groups, and no way represents how to actually SORT ESPs.

 

Please check out the articles I posted below in order to clear up any misconceptions about Load Order

 

 

Everybody who complains about not being able to Drag and Drop sort their ESP Load Order, is trying to force Vortex to be NMM, because they have carried over very bad habits from NMM, and don't realize that those habits are unnecessary in Vortex.

 

All software comes with a manual, spend a couple of minutes reading the built in knowledge base about managing the load order, and mod conflicts

 

KNOWLEDGE BASE---------->ABOUT LOAD ORDERS

KNOWLEDGE BASE---------->MANAGING FILE CONFLICTS

 

Vortex Load Order Sorting

 

Vortex vs NMM

 

Vortex FAQ

 

[AugustaCalidia]

@moreidil

 

In addition to HadToRegister's fine post, I would like to add the following.

 

1. Monotone?

 

 

2. The Solar System

 

These are LOOT groups. They are there primarily for reference. In the year and a half that I've been using Vortex, I've had to make only two group assignments (which are done in a side panel that pops out when you double click a plugin).

 

3. User Friendliness

 

This is the most user friendly mod manager that I've ever used in my thirteen years of modding games. It takes no more time to download and install mods than it would with NMM or MO2. As for file conflict resolution and plugin load order sorting, it typically takes no longer than about five minutes. DUINVv04 was the one mod where I had to spend more time than normal with file conflicts. But it was no more time than I had to spend with it when I modded Fallout NV several years ago using MO.

 

4. "A user interface is like a joke. If you have to explain it, it's probably not that good."

 

Take for example the NifSkope UI. It appears to require some explaining. Not so good?

 

 

I do hope you spend some more time with Vortex. It is a truly elegant and powerful mod manager.

[Mornedil]

I can understand it gets tiring to get so much negative feedback on a software, but that many people wouldn't complain if there wasn't an issue...

Go to SETTINGS------>THEME-------->pick "COMPACT"

An improvement, but it's still in need of categorization, with the option to collapse.
For example:

[-] Performance mods:
• Improved FPS
• LOD texture fix
• Generic mod name
[-] Gameplay mods:
• Settlers have horns
• Horns are actually hats
• Invisible hat mod

Just a bit of variety in design can help a lot when you have 100+ items to look through.
(this isn't just about comparing it to NMM, almost every software with file management lets you categorize things into folders, and allowing you to close or collapse the folders)

Double click on a mod, a right panel opens up with all of the mod info

I'm aware, but you missed the point of the sentence you quoted:

The UI provides very little information in the overview. No mod version, author, install date, or anything.

As in, being able to scroll through the mods and having this information easily available without having to double click each mod individually. It's inconvenient, and makes it harder to compare the values between mods.

Everybody who complains about not being able to Drag and Drop sort their ESP Load Order, is trying to force Vortex to be NMM, because they have carried over very bad habits from NMM, and don't realize that those habits are unnecessary in Vortex.

Not true, it's not just about comparing it with NMM. It's a basic feature people expect for any kind of file management. It's not a "bad habit" to expect being able to drag and drop items in a list to sort them.

I get that it's frustrating with so many complaints, but this kind of response just seems like stubbornness and unwillingness to listen to feedback. I was worried when making my original post it would sound too much like generic complaints, but these are all legit reasons why the software feels tedious to use, no matter if it's compared to NMM or not.

 

All software comes with a manual, spend a couple of minutes reading the built in knowledge base about managing the load order, and mod conflicts

Yeah there was a tutorial button within Vortex with a section for load order. It opened up a video explaining everything about what's important about the load order, and then it explained that Vortex automatically does this for you, and that if you need to change the load order for a mod, you can put it into a different group, and if necessary edit the group hierarchy. After that (which was more than a couple of minutes), the video ended and didn't mention any other form of load order management.

 

Although I did read that you can also double click a mod and "lock mod index". (which seems tedious to do for each mod).

 

But once again, the point isn't whether or not a feature exists in Vortex.

The point is that that the methods of doing things are over complicated and not user friendly, and that makes the software tedious to use.

When all people want to do is to do something as basic as installing a few mods and sort/group them, they're going to be annoyed when they need to read a user manual or watch tutorials for it.

Edited July 24, 2019 by Mornedil

[Mornedil]

First of all I'd like to clarify it wasn't me calling it a solar system, that's what the person I talked to responded to me showing it to them

Take for example the NifSkope UI. It appears to require some explaining. Not so good?

Well NifSkope deals with 3D models. We can take an even more extreme example: The UI in Autodesk Maya. The UI is extremely advanced, but so is the software.

The point is that a UI should only be as advanced as necessary.
Vortex is not user friendly enough considering the average mod user only wants to (1.) download mods, (2.) install mods, and (3.) manage mod groups & load order.

 

(it basically just seems like it's not designed for the average person who will be using it)

 

I do hope you spend some more time with Vortex. It is a truly elegant and powerful mod manager.

It seems powerful indeed, and I'll continue to use it.

 

I just wanted to provide some reasons why there seems to be so much disapproval towards it, since the threads I saw about it mostly just complained about how "it sucked" without providing any feedback, until the thread was closed by an admin.

 

 

Edit: What I meant with "monotone" was the actual mod list (as in it's just a long list that looks the same all the way through. would be nice with some categorization).

The user interface has a nice design, appearance wise.

Edited July 24, 2019 by Mornedil

[Zanderat]

Two things I will point out. You CAN turn off auto sort. And you CAN drag and drop to manually sort. Maybe not the best idea. But you can.

 

I am all for suggestions. But please be informed first.

[Mornedil]

Two things I will point out. You CAN turn off auto sort. And you CAN drag and drop to manually sort. Maybe not the best idea. But you can.

 

I am all for suggestions. But please be informed first.

 

I have "Auto sort" disabled. The button was easy to find, but I'm still not able to drag & drop mods to manually sort them.

 

Edit: Even the "lock mod index" options are locked and don't change when I click them, they're stuck to automatic

Edited July 24, 2019 by Mornedil

[AugustaCalidia]

@Mornedil

 

 

First of all I'd like to clarify it wasn't me calling it a solar system, that's what the person I talked to responded to me showing it to them

I like "Solar System" as a label for the LOOT groups. I think it's very apt and clever.

 

 

The point is that a UI should only be as advanced as necessary.
Vortex is not user friendly enough considering the average mod user only wants to (1.) download mods, (2.) install mods, and (3.) manage mod groups & load order.

 

I agree with the first sentence. I disagree with the second sentence. I myself had no trouble comprehending the Vortex UI when I first used Vortex a year and a half ago, when there were no manuals. Furthermore, I suspect that if you looked through the support forums for NMM (the mod manager for the "average mod user") you would find similar concerns about user friendliness.

[Zanderat]

 

Two things I will point out. You CAN turn off auto sort. And you CAN drag and drop to manually sort. Maybe not the best idea. But you can.

 

I am all for suggestions. But please be informed first.

 

I have "Auto sort" disabled. The button was easy to find, but I'm still not able to drag & drop mods to manually sort them.

 

Edit: Even the "lock mod index" options are locked and don't change when I click them, they're stuck to automatic

 

Just grab the icon on the far right and drag it wherever. Make sure that you are on the "plugin" screen.

[AugustaCalidia]

 

Two things I will point out. You CAN turn off auto sort. And you CAN drag and drop to manually sort. Maybe not the best idea. But you can.

 

I am all for suggestions. But please be informed first.

 

I have "Auto sort" disabled. The button was easy to find, but I'm still not able to drag & drop mods to manually sort them.

 

Edit: Even the "lock mod index" options are locked and don't change when I click them, they're stuck to automatic

 

You absolutely never have to drag and drop, although you can. Use LOOT group assignments or set a rule. (I've only ever had to make two assignments. I've never had to make a rule. Vortex took care of everything else.) You can lock the mod index, but that should be used only for very special cases. I've never had to use it, although I have experimented with it.

Edited July 24, 2019 by Augusta Calidia