Suggestion thread for Vortex improvements

[Zanderat]

I think the overall point is that Vortex functions differently than NMM and we need to let go of old (bad) habits. However, LOOT is still LOOT whether used as standalone or the integrated version in Vortex.

[AugustaCalidia]

I think the overall point is that Vortex functions differently than NMM and we need to let go of old (bad) habits. However, LOOT is still LOOT whether used as standalone or the integrated version in Vortex.

Agree.

[Mornedil]

 

 

Two things I will point out. You CAN turn off auto sort. And you CAN drag and drop to manually sort. Maybe not the best idea. But you can.

 

I am all for suggestions. But please be informed first.

 

I have "Auto sort" disabled. The button was easy to find, but I'm still not able to drag & drop mods to manually sort them.

 

Edit: Even the "lock mod index" options are locked and don't change when I click them, they're stuck to automatic

 

Just grab the icon on the far right and drag it wherever. Make sure that you are on the "plugin" screen.

 

 

That's not what i'm looking for, it seems to create a "dependencies" setting which tells a mod that it has to load before or after another mod.

 

What I want to use it for is to sort mods that have the same load order priority, to sort them into a format that's easier to look through when enabling or disabling different ESP files from the same mod.

 

 

For example, Sorting this (imaginary) mod list:

• CatMod 1 - Purrfect kittehs
• Some sword mod
• Improved trees
• CatMod 3 - Longer tails
• Improved rocks
• CatMod 2 - bigger ears

 

And turning it into this:

• CatMod 1 - Purrfect kittehs
• CatMod 2 - bigger ears
• CatMod 3 - Longer tails
• Some sword mod
• Improved rocks
• Improved trees

 

it may seem trivial since the load order in a case like this doesn't technically matter, but with tons of mods installed it becomes easier to manage when enabling/disabling mods.

[Mornedil]

@Mornedil

 

 

First of all I'd like to clarify it wasn't me calling it a solar system, that's what the person I talked to responded to me showing it to them

I like "Solar System" as a label for the LOOT groups. I think it's very apt and clever.

 

 

The point is that a UI should only be as advanced as necessary.

Vortex is not user friendly enough considering the average mod user only wants to (1.) download mods, (2.) install mods, and (3.) manage mod groups & load order.

 

I agree with the first sentence. I disagree with the second sentence. I myself had no trouble comprehending the Vortex UI when I first used Vortex a year and a half ago, when there were no manuals. Furthermore, I suspect that if you looked through the support forums for NMM (the mod manager for the "average mod user") you would find similar concerns about user friendliness.

 

I had no trouble getting it to work, but the mods appeared in a strange order for me with the automatic sorting, and I had to spend an unnecessary amount of time to manually sort them (which I ended up doing in-game since that was more user friendly than Vortex. Then I just disabled auto sorting).

Edited July 24, 2019 by Mornedil

[DSPiron]

Edit: Even the "lock mod index" options are locked and don't change when I click them, they're stuck to automatic

I'm... pretty sure that shouldn't happen, the "Locked to index" radio button should be clickable, as far as I know.

 

And, (late, but in case you missed it;) by "Drag-&-Drop", they mean dragging the icon under "Dependencies" () and dropping on another 'Plugin'(ESM/ESP/ESL) to start (and mostly complete) the load order rule-setting process, only needing an additional click to add a rule that states "the [dragged plugin or mod] must load after the [dropped-on one].

A bit disingenuous to say that, as most other drag-&-drop interfaces mean just grabbing an item in a list.

EDIT: Wow, really late on that one....

 

 

I think it's safe to say that proper manual sorting is just not going to be a feature of Vortex, as it's not possible to have that, and still automatically sort new mods. (not without wrecking the manually sorted load order)

The idea being that:

The precise location of each 'plugin'(ESM/ESP/ESL) is irrelevant, so long as it's after the ones it's supposed to be after, and before the ones it's supposed to be before.

If Vortex's built-in LOOT sorter can't do the job right, it shouldn't need many rules to fix it.

If you have an example to the contrary, where you'd need, I don't know, fifty? rules to get your load order working, I think the people here would like to see it.

and throw LOOT rule suggestions to fix it.

 

At least, I think this is the case.

 

Oh, also

The UI provides very little information in the overview. No mod version, author, install date, or anything.

I am a bit confused. Most of that information is available on the table on the "Mods" tab.

 

I was originally going to point out that additional fields for the "overview" are also available by clicking a kinda-easy-to-miss gear icon.

But most things you listed were already present on my "Mods" "overview", although I'm not sure how many are on by default.

Like, I know that what mod a 'plugin'(ESM/ESP/ESL) goes to isn't on by default...

Edited July 24, 2019 by DSPiron

[DSPiron]

What I want to use it for is to sort mods that have the same load order priority, to sort them into a format that's easier to look through when enabling or disabling different ESP files from the same mod.

 

For example, Sorting this (imaginary) mod list:

• CatMod 1 - Purrfect kittehs
• Some sword mod
• Improved trees
• CatMod 3 - Longer tails
• Improved rocks
• CatMod 2 - bigger ears

And turning it into this:

• CatMod 1 - Purrfect kittehs
• CatMod 2 - bigger ears
• CatMod 3 - Longer tails
• Some sword mod
• Improved rocks
• Improved trees

Yeah, I'm 80% sure Vortex isn't about having the load order being... human-readable.

Does the fact that Vortex can display your 'plugin'(ESM/ESP/ESL)s in any order you want, not just the load order, help?

Edited July 24, 2019 by DSPiron

[Mornedil]

Thanks @DSPiron, that's very useful. It helps a lot to do what you showed - clicking the gear icon, checking the "mod" box, and being able to sort them by which mod it's part of

[HadToRegister]

 

An improvement, but it's still in need of categorization, with the option to collapse.
For example:

[-] Performance mods:
• Improved FPS
• LOD texture fix
• Generic mod name
[-] Gameplay mods:
• Settlers have horns
• Horns are actually hats
• Invisible hat mod

 

 

I wrote an entire article on this, and it was supposed to be added to the Wiki but apparently it hasn't yet.
Filter for "Clothing"
Only Clothing Mods are shown.

 

 

 

Combining Categories in the Filter. "Clothing" and "Bug Fixes"
Only Clothing Mods and Bug Fix Mods are shown

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As in, being able to scroll through the mods and having this information easily available without having to double click each mod individually. It's inconvenient, and makes it harder to compare the values between mods.

You only have to double click on ONE mod to open the panel, after that, the panel will stay open when you switch mods.

[BigBizkit]

Hey Mornedil,

 

Feedback is always welcome. Let me address a few points:

 

In your images you are comparing the mods view in NMM, to the plugins view in Vortex. You probably want to look at the mods view in Vortex for an actual comparison.

 

I can see your point about visual separators, but in terms of information provided, Vortex, objectively speaking, has NMM beat. When it comes to mods Vortex allows you to display information about: Version, Author, Installation Time, Source, Category, Endorsement status, Content (showing the content of the mod: e.g. textures and meshes), Install Order, Dependencies, (visual) Highlight. You can enable/disable these on the right by clicking the gear next to Action.

 

You can both sort and filter by all of these.

 

Comparing the plugins view in NMM and Vortex:

 

NMM displays the plugin name, the Load Order, and Index - and actually, what it displays under load order is the actual mod index, and the index is the load order position, so it's the wrong way around / mislabelled.

 

Vortex displays the plugin name, the load order, the mod index, the mod the plugin is from, the mod category of that mod, various flags (master, loaded by engine flag, loads an archive flag, whether it requires cleaning, whether it is clean, warnings about incompatibility, the type of plugin, whether it could be turned into a light plugin, loot warnings), the group it belongs to, and dependencies.

 

And again: you can sort and filter by most of these.

 

As for your question regarding manual dragging and dropping of plugins: this is addressed in great detail on our wiki. Please, have a read and if you can provide an actual technical reason why you need to be able to drag and drop a specific plugin, do not hesitate to provide an example: https://wiki.nexusmods.com/index.php/The_Vortex_approach_to_load_order_sorting

 

@HadToRegister: I'll get that added to the wiki.

[soupdragon1234]

I think the overall point is that Vortex functions differently than NMM and we need to let go of old (bad) habits. However, LOOT is still LOOT whether used as standalone or the integrated version in Vortex.

 

Yes and no. There is still functionality in LOOT thats missing in Vortex, unless I'm missing something. LOOT tells me whether mods need updating or whether theres a patch available between two mods in my load order and even that my copy of USSEP is incompatible with my version of the game.exe (seriously I didn't even know that was a thing). I can't find anything in the settings in Vortex that tells me any of that. If I'm guilty of not reading the documentation fully and its in there somewhere (probably guilty on that part) then I hold up my hands.

 

edit: Ok found it thanks. It might be better if LOOT messages weren't buried away in the sidebar it didn't occur to me to look there honestly. A bit more in your face with a popup say as they're fairly important.

Edited July 26, 2019 by soupdragon1234