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Elex Overhaul


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#11
Lawtenant

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In response to post #72277218. #72294578 is also a reply to the same post.


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Nice eye for noticing the no-restock thing with Alrik's inventory! Sincerely good luck with that :).

Just an extra thought, another reason why a no-restock overhaul would be great (besides removing a serious immersion killer) is solving the MOST commonly seen player criticism - things get too easy lategame, even on Ultra difficulty. Jax has too much health and kills too fast. If you scaled down high tier weapons in line with no-restock, along with your current nerf to perma HP pots, the difficulty curve would remain steady until the end of the game (instead of plummeting around 60% lol). My (humble, player based) example of scaling down item stats would be the following: a weapon that has 106 base damage + needs at least 94 from the required attribute = for a total of 200 damage would be reduced to numbers such as 80 base damage + 70-ish minimum stat requirement = for total of 150 damage. A 25% nerf in lategame damage that would make Jax still work on those Alb hunting tactics :P. In short, no-restock would imho also balance the main issue of the game which is difficulty.

Thank you for responding and keep up the awesome work!

Edited by Lawtenant, 05 August 2019 - 07:01 PM.


#12
matr0x

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In response to post #72243323.


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The mod does not alter any language files. Its safe to play with with any language :) As for your idea with helmets, its something I will definitely look into. Thanks for you suggestion.

#13
hinti21

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Nice mod!
Will you adjust the XP gained by killing enemies in the future?
In the old Gothic games, enemies used to give more XP, so fighting them paid off.
In Elex I evaded a lot of enemies, because I didnt want to lose health for 5, 10 or 20 XP.

#14
BigBadPig

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Well, I didn't want to spoil all the fun of finding about the new weapon balance myself, and just now I found my first two-hander... which does a point more damage than a broadsword. Sorry, that just won't do: the broadsword is much faster, allows you to use a shield... and we all know that the special attack for two-handed swords is situational at best, especially on Ultra.
What was your reasoning for upping one-handed weapon damage while leaving regular two-handers almost the same?

#15
Lawtenant

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In response to post #72368573.


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+1 I have to agree. Two handers aren't as appealing compared to one handed weapons because of the same-ish stat requirements and damage. Could use some tweaking.

Edited by Lawtenant, 07 August 2019 - 08:39 PM.


#16
matr0x

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In response to post #72368573. #72376073 is also a reply to the same post.


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I can definitely understand your confusion on this. I had a hard time deciding what a good balance would be in this regard. The current stats for one/two handed weapons is due to the following:
1. Two-handed weapons have much higher range then one-handed weapons. This is VERY important. On my second playthrough I was playing an Outlaw with a 2H axe. The fights felt VERY different when compared to my previous Cleric with sword and board. Having a longer range of attacks allows you to keep your enemies at bay, even multiple enemies at once, since they simply have a harder time reaching you. Some monsters have long "jumping" attacks. With a 2H weapon (and some good reflexes) you can hit and potentially stagger them before their attack reaches you.
2. 2H weapons have a wider attack then 1H. You can hit multiple enemies with melee weapons. Since 2H weapons have longer reach, they also have a bigger damage area and a better chance of damaging more then one enemy. This makes them better at group fights.
3. They have higher attack power, therefore stagger enemies much more often. This makes them also better in a lot of fights.

So 2H weapons are better at staggering, fighting in groups and have higher range. In comparison, with 1H weapons have the possibility to carry a shield and the attack animations are faster. Also, I do not think they are "much" faster, based on my observations, just slightly.

Also, when looking at weapon damage, take into account other stats as well. This is meant to be the core idea of Elex Overhaul. In vanilla game, damage was the only difference between the weapons. Now you also have to take into account how much stagger your attacks can cause and how much damage you do with full combo bar. For instance, Mace III (1H weapon) has 80 attack power, will do 89 base damage and 97 damage with full combo bar. The Two-Handed Sword III also has 80 attack power, also does 89 base damage, BUT... with the full combo bar, it will do 120 damage (23 more then Mace III). Due to how armor works in this game, that is a BIG difference.

If I added more damage to 2H weapons, then we would get back to the same situation we were in the vanilla game: where two-handed weapons were MUCH better then one-handed in every regard (and the possibility to carry shields did not make up for those differences).

That being said, there is always room for improvement. I am very happy to hear your thoughts on the way the mod is now, so that I can make it even better :) If you still think that 2H weapons should get a buff, let me know. I can then tweak stats in the next release.

PS. There is an awesome video on Elex melee combat, detailing some of the aspects of 1H+Shield/pure 1H/2H gameplay. Its based on vanilla game, but its still valid in almost all cases.

Edited by matr0x, 07 August 2019 - 09:39 PM.


#17
BigBadPig

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In response to post #72368573. #72376073, #72377378 are all replies on the same post.


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The other stats beside damage, unfortunately, don't make THAT much of a difference, IMHO... on Ultra. Enemies often act through stagger (and don't even get me started about the game's developers brilliant idea to let the bots attack AFTER their stamina bar empties, but that's not your fault, of course), have enough hitpoints/armor to close in on you no matter your weapon range, and again: filling the combo meter and keeping it full is quite a task on Ultra and against a same level opponent, let alone group, because you are seldom allowed to keep your rhythm, and when you're failing to do that - you're getting literally the same damage as any one-handed weapon, but again - without a shield.
I wholeheartedly embrace the idea of making the weapons differ from one another, and your approach to the problem is great. I'm just relating what I see in the game reality:). Eh, the reality is: roll-hit-roll-hit-roll-hit... oh look, the game's over:). Which, by the way, is exactly what the video author does almost throughout (except - yeah, you guessed it - with a shield), after all is said and done:). Although the video IS great, as are all his other videos on the subject.
All that said - thanks for working closely with us few:).

Edited by BigBadPig, 08 August 2019 - 08:12 AM.


#18
Lawtenant

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Hi matr0x! I've been playing some more and am really enjoying the mod and your stat rebalances. The mod definitely adds to the balance and enjoyability of the game :).

One thing I've noticed (and this is my first time using this so I can't compare to vanilla) is the Jet firing mode of the Berserker fire fist. It may be applicable to the frost and poison versions, unfortunately I haven't tried them. I joined the Berserkers and chose the fire fist, gone to test it on some poor Goliet Cultivators :P. The Flame Jet mode seems waaay more damaging and mana efficent both compared to fireball and the single target mode. Maybe its too soon to say cause I haven't tried it on high armor enemies yet but my first impression is wwwtf I just melted that 5-melee-htk guy for 12 mana in 3 secs. No investment into the magic dmg skill yet.

Edited by Lawtenant, 08 August 2019 - 03:25 PM.


#19
matr0x

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In response to post #72363253.


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After a quick look at the game files, I can confrim that modifying the XP the player receives for the enemies is definitely modifiable :) But rebalancing the XP values for all enemies would be a big change that would affect the flow of the gameplay from start to finish. Gotta plan this just right. I might change add such changes in the future, but I can't say when. Thanks for the suggestions though, I will add this to my "to do" list :)

#20
matr0x

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In response to post #72368573. #72376073, #72377378, #72387233 are all replies on the same post.


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Alright then, I will buff the 2H weapon slightly in the next patch. Few points of damage more (maybe higher damage increase per weapon level, so they won't be too OP early game) and maybe some extra stat requirements to balance it out.

Or alternatively, I could nerf 1H a bit. Still thinking which approach would be best here.




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