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How to put NPCs and items that I created via construction set to places in the game (buildings, chests, etc)

construction set npc items

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#11
VencGanence

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placeatme creates a dynamic object which is local to the save file.  It causes save bloat.



#12
Striker879

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placeatme creates a dynamic object which is local to the save file.  It causes save bloat.

 

Which is an issue if you are adding hundreds of NPCs ... a dozen or so won't even be a ripple in the big pond.



#13
Dimitrisgb

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placeatme creates a dynamic object which is local to the save file.  It causes save bloat.

 

What do you mean "dynamic object" and "save bloat"? I never had any problem and I haven't ever seen any other object.



#14
Dimitrisgb

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Select the destination so you see it in the render window, select your NPC in the NPC's list, drag & drop.
 
I don't know anything about the armors creation.


How do you select the destination?

 

Move the NPC to the render window, where you see the elements of the cell you chose.

 

 

Thanx, but iI'm using the console commands to place the NPCs in a certain location.

 

 

Then it will be:

 

player.placeatme <baseID> 1

 

The baseID must start with the mod index of the ESP that they come from (so for example the male Wood Elf marauder mage added by Variant Vagabonds baseID for that console command is 69002b09 as Variant Vagabonds.esp is mod index 69 in my load order).

 

So the console command is:

 

player.placeatme 69002b09 1

 

 

Yes, I know. Thanx though.



#15
VencGanence

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placeatme creates a dynamic object which is local to the save file.  It causes save bloat.

 

What do you mean "dynamic object" and "save bloat"? I never had any problem and I haven't ever seen any other object.

 

 

Oblivion's engine has Reference IDs for every object in the game: weapons, armor, potions, containers, buildings, walls, etc.  Placeatme clones the object you're placing, meaning it creates a new object with a new Reference ID that is otherwise an exact copy of another object.  This new clone is called a Dynamic Object.  Since it's not part of the game's files or archives, it's data is stored in the very save file that created it.

 

As you interact with things through a playthrough, they change from their default states and the game has to record this without changing the actual files or archives (lest every item you pick up disappear from every save file henceforth), so it stores these changes in the current save file.  No matter how small, these records do take up disk space.  Maybe a few bytes, maybe a few kilobytes.  But over time they pile ontop of each other and your save is now megabytes large, or even gigabytes large.  Oblivion is coded in a 32-bit architecture, so it can only keep track of at most 4 GB of data -- anymore and it will crash.  You can see where this is going:  the larger your save file, the less stable Oblivion gets.  The longer you play a single character, the larger their save file.

 

Placeatme adds to the pile.



#16
Striker879

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placeatme creates a dynamic object which is local to the save file.  It causes save bloat.

 

What do you mean "dynamic object" and "save bloat"? I never had any problem and I haven't ever seen any other object.

 

 

Oblivion's engine has Reference IDs for every object in the game: weapons, armor, potions, containers, buildings, walls, etc.  Placeatme clones the object you're placing, meaning it creates a new object with a new Reference ID that is otherwise an exact copy of another object.  This new clone is called a Dynamic Object.  Since it's not part of the game's files or archives, it's data is stored in the very save file that created it.

 

As you interact with things through a playthrough, they change from their default states and the game has to record this without changing the actual files or archives (lest every item you pick up disappear from every save file henceforth), so it stores these changes in the current save file.  No matter how small, these records do take up disk space.  Maybe a few bytes, maybe a few kilobytes.  But over time they pile ontop of each other and your save is now megabytes large, or even gigabytes large.  Oblivion is coded in a 32-bit architecture, so it can only keep track of at most 4 GB of data -- anymore and it will crash.  You can see where this is going:  the larger your save file, the less stable Oblivion gets.  The longer you play a single character, the larger their save file.

 

Placeatme adds to the pile.

 

 

 

As a point of reference on the situation ... I use a mod that allows me to stop defeated bandits, marauders, conjurers and necromancers (so either never killed or resurrected) from being purged from the game on a cell reset. These are all NPCs that are generated from a leveled list (so refIDs that start with FF). I keep them in my various houses (including some I've "taken over" using the console) and various Ayleid ruins. I use a mod (SPAWN) that allows me to change how often those cells reset, meaning that in effect unless my guy doesn't visit the cell for close to half a year in game the cell does not reset. That means that I have hundreds of NPCs stored in various buildings and ruins.

 

Before I started doing this my level 1 character had saves that were 1260 KB for the ESS save and 56 KB for the OBSE co-save. At my current level 43 that same character's saves are 7563 KB for the ESS save and 71 KB for the OBSE co-save. At the time I started using SPAWN to control the cell reset the saves were hovering around the 3000 KB size (so sometimes going higher than that and then dropping down to a bit lower when a cell containing "stored" NPCs reset). That means that with normal game cell purging and gameplay (the saves store much more than those NPCs) by level 13 the saves had "bloated" by roughly 1500 or 1600 KB. With altered cell reset behavior (via SPAWN) the saves went from 3000 KB to the current 7500 KB with no change in game stability.

 

A few dozen NPCs created via the console will have zero impact, in fact no more impact than if those same few dozen NPCs were created and placed via the Construction Set.


Edited by Striker879, 16 February 2020 - 08:26 PM.


#17
DrakeTheDragon

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Also worth keeping in mind this is after all still about newly created NPCs, which have not yet been placed into the game. In this context the game won't care, if you place the first instance of each via PlaceAtMe or drag&drop in the CS, or at least the difference won't be noticeable. (QQuix will know this better though. He's done all the tests and measurements at one point.)

 

The warnings to refrain from PlaceAtMe due to save game bloat come from situations where a conjured up actor or item is to be spawned, a custom Bound Item/Summon Creature/NPC kinda deal. If you use PlaceAtMe for this, you'll after time have created millions of new instances of the same object, which of course will be a problem for your save game. The previous ones will all still fly around somewhere in your game and consume resources.

 

That's why for those specific cases it is advised to instead put 1 instance of them already into the game somewhere, and on spawn use MoveTo to place them at you.

 

But here we're talking of objects where -no- instance of has been created yet, and only 1 ever will.

 

 

Don't get me wrong. I still advise learning how to do these things the right way, putting the NPC into your game through a plugin. But that's only, because I consider the console an intermediate/temporary solution for testing things, with no long-time remaining effects in my game. (I.e. I load the game anew when I'm done testing, so whatever I did through console is undone again/not saved.)



#18
Dimitrisgb

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I still have a couple of problems: 1) I create a non-hostile vampire, but every time I try to talk to the NPC it says: "I HAVE NO GREETING". The thing is that, I have created at least 5 other NPCs, that greet me with no problems.

2) The second is that every time I try to create Khajiit NPCs with "Elsweyr -Anequinna" mod, the CS crashes when I am about to save.

So how can I fox these?

#19
Striker879

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What faction is the vampire assigned to?

 

If you are editing the Elsweyr Anequinna mod's ESP then I'm not sure what may be the problem. If you are trying to create your own ESP with the Elsweyr Anequinna ESP as a master you are running into the situation know as "mod de-isolation" (you can't use an ESP as a master using the vanilla Construction Set).



#20
Dimitrisgb

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What faction is the vampire assigned to?
 
If you are editing the Elsweyr Anequinna mod's ESP then I'm not sure what may be the problem. If you are trying to create your own ESP with the Elsweyr Anequinna ESP as a master you are running into the situation know as "mod de-isolation" (you can't use an ESP as a master using the vanilla Construction Set).


The vampire doesnt belong to any faction. Nor do the other NPCs.

As for the Elsweyr Anequinna, I have been told to use the CS extended.





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