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#11
Tannin42

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 I dunno why anyone would ask for help on a forum where they're going to praise their product and pretty much make anyone feel stupid who doesn't understand it. You shouldn't need to take a Class to completely re-learn The Basics of Load Order setup...... because some app dev "says" they know better than you do. Yeah? well your program took my perfect load order and put ESPs inbetween ESMs... Mods loading BETWEEN DLCs. No, the drag-a-link thing doesnt work. Setting rules doesn't work, i actually set "A must load after B" for EVERY single file.... yet that doesn't work either.

 

Yes I'm new to this, so rag on me for it! Or, your concept might be good, but the way you are presenting it to people is not. f*** your LOOT. Mod Organizer here i come!

 

Both .esp files loading between .esms and plugins loading between DLCs are valid scenarios.

LOOT or Vortex's integration thereof is not one app dev thinking he (I'm assuming you mean me?) knows better, there is an entire community behind creating these rules, most of the hard rules are mod author instructions turned into automation rules.

 

Finally: I've been modding bethesda games for ~10 years, you admit you are new to this, so is it really such a weird concept that I might know better than you? Do I really have to feel bad for assuming that 10 years of experience means something?

 

We're always happy to hear constructive criticisms that could help our presentation but I think in this case the problem isn't our presentation but your incorrect assumptions on how plugins work, like that .esps can't be loaded between .esms.

With MO you may be more able to get the order you think is right but that won't change the fact that you're basing it on incorrect information.

 

You could have taken Vortex loading esps between esms and thought "hmm, maybe I misunderstood something, maybe this is valid. Oh and would you look at this, the game runs fine." and then you would have learned something. Instead you naturally assumed you know better even though you have absolutely no reason to think that and didn't even bother verifying it.

Now you use MO which lets you continue to dwell in your incorrect assumptions and propagate them to other users when you tell them "this is how it works, trust me, I have entire months of experience".



#12
KirkH420

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I hear ya.. my opinion sucks.

But also MO2 works out of the box, no learning curve.

 

"you would have learned something."

I can't think of ANY reason why I'd want to do that.

Learn how to use a mod organizer who's Dev doesn't agree that I

should have control and I've read the dev say (in this thread) that

he has no intention of the user to have control?

 

 

and YOU seem like you jump at the chance to defend your choice that

load order Should not be editable by the user. Many people choose

mo2 because of this reason alone. You're explaining to me your

experience level, cool i don't have time to insult you nor would i have

tried to. So i dunno why you're telling me that.

Any time you take the control out of the user's hands YOU ARE telling them

that you know better. Maybe you do know better than me but here's the

thing about that: I don't want to play your way. I want to make my own

mistakes. Just because you know better than someone doesn't give you

the right to choose for them. You DO need to adapt to this fact of life.

 

 

PS..... Virtual File Explorer (grinface)


Edited by KirkH420, 25 March 2021 - 09:13 PM.


#13
1ae0bfb8

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I hear ya.. my opinion sucks.

But also MO2 works out of the box, no learning curve.

I don't think anyone's opinion sucks. its yours and you're entitled to it. don't let anyone tell you different my friend.



#14
HadToRegister

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I hear ya.. my opinion sucks.

But also MO2 works out of the box, no learning curve.

 

"you would have learned something."

I can't think of ANY reason why I'd want to do that.

Learn how to use a mod organizer who's Dev doesn't agree that I

should have control and I've read the dev say (in this thread) that

he has no intention of the user to have control?

 

 

and YOU seem like you jump at the chance to defend your choice that

load order Should not be editable by the user. Many people choose

mo2 because of this reason alone. You're explaining to me your

experience level, cool i don't have time to insult you nor would i have

tried to. So i dunno why you're telling me that.

Any time you take the control out of the user's hands YOU ARE telling them

that you know better. Maybe you do know better than me but here's the

thing about that: I don't want to play your way. I want to make my own

mistakes. Just because you know better than someone doesn't give you

the right to choose for them. You DO need to adapt to this fact of life.

 

 

PS..... Virtual File Explorer (grinface)

 

 

You're in the VORTEX forum, attacking Vortex, of course people are going to defend it, especially from people who don't know WTF they're talking about.

That would be like me going to the MO2 forums, and saying "MO2 sucksorz"

Getting the "Perfect Load Order" from a Reddit Guide is like getting Sex Advice from the teens that hang out in front of the 7-11

LOOT is made up of a team who goes through the mods file-by-file to see which files are conflicting and which mod would best work loading before or after other mods.

Then there's the people who refuse to listen to anybody and want to mess up things their own way, kind of like people who refuse to wear masks
So, ultimately, you're free to put your load order in any order you want with MO2, just don't ask here why your game CTDs after a few minutes or when you get to a certain area etc.
Have fun!

Oh, I've been modding Bethesda games since 2003, starting with Morrowind. so that's 18 years under my belt



#15
Zanderat

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I hear ya.. my opinion sucks.

But also MO2 works out of the box, no learning curve.

 

"you would have learned something."

I can't think of ANY reason why I'd want to do that.

Learn how to use a mod organizer who's Dev doesn't agree that I

should have control and I've read the dev say (in this thread) that

he has no intention of the user to have control?

 

 

and YOU seem like you jump at the chance to defend your choice that

load order Should not be editable by the user. Many people choose

mo2 because of this reason alone. You're explaining to me your

experience level, cool i don't have time to insult you nor would i have

tried to. So i dunno why you're telling me that.

Any time you take the control out of the user's hands YOU ARE telling them

that you know better. Maybe you do know better than me but here's the

thing about that: I don't want to play your way. I want to make my own

mistakes. Just because you know better than someone doesn't give you

the right to choose for them. You DO need to adapt to this fact of life.

 

 

PS..... Virtual File Explorer (grinface)

Not responding to this whole rant.  BUT Vortex does allow you full manual control of your load order.  Just enable this setting and Vortex will never autosort your load order ever again. 

Spoiler

 

You just never bothered to learn the tool.



#16
rmm200

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People seem to forget - the author of MO 2 is the author of Vortex.

Ragging on him - is not productive.



#17
AugustaCalidia

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and YOU seem like you jump at the chance to defend your choice that

load order Should not be editable by the user.

 

Not only does the author of this post seem unaware that Tannin developed MO2, but also that Tannin built several load order editing tools into Vortex, viz., plugin rule generation, plugin group assignments, and even the hallowed "drag and drop."  His claim that Tannin opposed user load order editing is what we in Talos Plaza call nuntium simulatum.



#18
Zanderat

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nuntium simulatum
Or more simply put, utter bulls***.




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