16 replies to this topic

[PAPVAFS11]

It definitely sounds like the bug I'm running into. Fire rates in excess of 300 are not uncommon. Base game weapons, so far as I can tell, are unharmed by the bug. It happens primarily on loading a save, but I've seen it affect freshly-spawned weapons during the course of regular gameplay. I've also been able to consistently reproduce it on some of my test saves.

 

I know that I didn't have this problem for a long time. Like I mentioned before, it started popping up when I first started modifying weapon fire rates. My workflow hasn't exactly been coordinated, so I'm not sure if I was doing anything else at the time that could've busted this.

[PAPVAFS11]

I have a small update. Yes, I'm still experiencing this problem. No, I've not yet found a solution. I've been going through a painstaking debugging process in a very small box to see what - if anything - triggers it. I tried deleting every weapon and weapon mod out of my primary rebalance plugin, and I still saw it happening on radium rifles. I've not made much progress.

 

I have, however, noted that broken fire rates usually seem to stick to the formula of base fire rate * 3.33. A fire rate of 150 (or 900RPM) becomes 500, 130 becomes 432, etc. I'm going to hunt around to see if I can find anything that might be related to it, even as much as my gut says this is a red herring.

[PAPVAFS11]

This is a bit of a speedy bump, but I think it's warranted. I've found the answer - or so I hope.

 

It was caused by, for some reason, too many levelled lists.

 

I've been working on a large-scale rebalance project that involves using a whole lot of tiered levelled lists to improve weapon and armor variety. That meant that I had to make a giant chuck-ton of interwoven levelled lists to get the kind of granularity I wanted. This problem must have started somewhere in the middle of that, as, based on process of elimination (meaning deleting everything until it started working right), the cause was just plain having too many list records.

 

I deleted most of my lists and, lo and behold, it worked. Fire rates stopped going nuts. Weapons started sounding as they were meant to.

 

I've started the process of porting my lists into a plugin separate from my main file. That seems to have worked out just fine. It's going to be a major pain to port my stuff without breaking references, but it's something that's been a long time coming.

 

I'm going to keep testing this to see if it all worked. If I can be sure, I'll update the OP with a pointer to this post. I pray for anyone else that nobody ever runs into this bug like I did.

 

Edit:

Disregard above. It's back. I've completely deleted all of my levelled lists. It came back just today. My only option is to get rid of the plugin entirely and start over from scratch.

 

I have to throw out half a year's worth of work just because of this bug. I still don't understand why this is happening.

Edited by PAPVAFS11, 11 January 2020 - 07:51 AM.

[PAPVAFS11]

I'm leaving this post as a tombstone. I made no concrete progress on finding out what went wrong. I was able to get it all working in a few isolated test cases, but those ultimately told me nothing. It wasn't levelled lists, it wasn't an overflow, and there was nothing I could think of to fix it. If you end up with the same problem I did, and you've come here looking for answers, I'm sorry to say that I have none.

 

I had to throw out my project on revamping armor and weapon distribution over this bug. I've since started fresh, and, as much as it pains me to toss out all that work, I think it's for the best. My workflow was a mess. My plugin structure was as monolithic as it was awful. I've also found new toys to bloat everything up with, so I guess I'm better off in a way.

 

One thing I started suspecting just before I threw it all out was that it might've had something to do with bad references in the files. I'd merged a weapon mod into my core plugin that ended up with strange injected records. I have a feeling that it might've had to do with the game looking at those, trying to piece them together with the "master file" they pointed do, and throwing a fit in the process when it couldn't make sense of them.

 

I realized when I was going through all the records to un-inject them that they overlapped with things that were completely wrong; car doors, trees, other static props, and so on. I don't know if this was a coincidence, if I was just looking at it wrong, or if this really was the culprit. Whatever the case, what's done is done. My only other hunch was that it might've had to do with dead links in the files, but that's something that feels like it'd be common enough that someone else would've reported this issue by now.

 

Best of luck to anyone with a bug like this. Don't let it eat you like it did me.

[Zzyxzz]

Bethesda fkd up. As the previous poster said. Bethesda brought that bug with Nukaworld.

[geala]

I had this one time when I made a leveled list from the M249 machinegun and changed caliber to 5mm, with omod speed corrections. It showed a fire rate of 300 instead of 145. But after restarting the game some times the bug was gone and the fire rate shown in the correct manner. Really weird.

[effelo]

I am experiencing the same. My theory is that it has something to do with the way OMODs add attach points.

 

There is something absurd about the fact that in the WEAP records of many guns some attach points are not listed although the gun logically always comes with this attach point. Instead these attach points are added by OMODs.

   Example: The gun has the receiver attach point, Every single receiver the gun can have adds the barrel attach point - instead of simply giving the WEAP record the barrel attach point.

So far so good - unnecessarily complex, but good. 

 

However, it happens that two OMODs that can both be attached to the weapon at the same time both add the same attach point. (for example with the AS VAL in WSE2 in combination with the foregrip ...or in the service rifle mod basically with every automatic receiver)

 

My theory is this: Whenever this happens there is a chance that the game will add up "SET" operations for the speed modifier in the OMODs (although that makes no sense of course, since it is a SET) and of course it will add up "MUL+ADD" operations.

...If I am right it is a bug at the same time as incorrect handling of attach points in the OMODs of this weapon.

This would explain why it does not happen for all weapons (since some weapons do not have this handling of attach points in their OMODS) and why it only happens from time to time (on load sometimes - because there is a bug that sometimes exposes this incorrect handling of attach points ...happening non-deterministically - for example depending on which multi-threaded calculation process finishes first).

 

Let me know what you think of my theory.