Mod authors and mod-packs

[Richardo11]

I reading here and there about the ongoing issue about mod list or mod packs, and sometimes i do not know if we are talking on the same page ... (and other places talking about the same thing) talking about what the problem is..

Aside of the main problem of mod author rights, which seems to be the BIG fight, and it is, BUT it is NOT the big and REAL problem here.. Anyone can spend a whole evening and download 100 mods, seems that the major concern is to save that time, specially if instead of download 100 mods the schedule is 400 ++ mods .. yet you can do it ..

THE REAL PROBLEM IS CONFLICT SOLVING.. that requires waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more time than just downloading the mod collection... THAT is a real mod pack, a whole collection of mods, put together and conflict free .... and that aside of taking a HUGE amount of work, requires a deep understanding of how mod works, Skyrim engine, a whole array of tools, the Creation Kit and +++++++, and time, tons and tons of time

For just a couple (20 mods let say) you can go with knowing those tools a bit, but for 400/500 ++++ mod packs that it is what people want (me included) you need, as i said a deep understanding of all I mentioned

In fact, putting together a 500 mod list, with major overhaul mod/weather/light/gameplay/places and quest/follower/ENB's/textures/+++... requires more work that doing most of the mods themselves..

Authors in their own right, say that mod list author (REAL mod-pack authors) will get paid/kudo/thumbed up-you-name-it with the work of other.... and that is just, JUST partially true.

REAL mod pack authors should be recognized at the dame height at least than mod authors for the work and knowledge involved .. it is in fact a mod

I do not underestimate the work of mod authors, I have been playing skyrim for years and years, and the only reason for that is mod authors, I am deeply thankful to them, but in the same way that they use assets for their mod, mod pack authors also use assets, that happen to be mods (I know that is not exactly the same thing, technically)

Wish we could find a solution of that, I would be for the good of everyone, I can't count the thousand of hours that into building my own mod list <(and solving conflicts) to finally get to nothing, play a bunch of levels and then a hard crash and a corrupted save or a persistent CTD.. and all my countless hours of work goes to nothing, that have happen to me many times, modding is very addictive and you can go by and back .... but what a wonderful thought if we really could play (and could be done) a beefy mod list with all those wonderful mods with more quest and lands and gameplay.. if you love Skyrim, just imagine it... what a dream!!

If only a way that equally, mod authors and mod pack authors could be recognized in the same way that mod authors are recognized nowadays lets say in Nexus... Damn it, mate, damn it

What do you think??

[Deleted3897072User]

In a word: Maintenance

 

Modpacks are feasible (with effort) for games that are never going to be updated, with mods that are never going to be updated and have open permissions to make patches. The modpack author must assume responsibility for bug-fixing in the short term and then the modpack will be stable. I'd say the effort involved is about equivalent to a trivial mod but that's a judgement call.

 

For games that are still evolving (SSE, for example) where every update breaks at least some mods and where mods themselves are still being updated by their authors between times, modpacks will break frequently and it will be the modpack authors' responsibility to fix them. Except they can't, because they can't fix all the mods themselves. So for these games, modpacks will be ephemeral. They may work correctly on the day they are issued and then gradually break over the next few days.

 

Anyone can do the arithmetic: if you create a modpack with, say, 240 mods and each mod is updated three times a year, you would have to update and completely re-test your modpack, on average, around twice a day, 24x7, forever. That's far more work than even a large mod and anyone who took that on voluntarily for free would certainly deserve respect. It's at the point where someone starts charging money for doing it and makes it into their full-time job that it becomes distasteful because then they are unfairly profiting financially from the freely-given work of the original mod authors and mod authors are entitled to be annoyed about that.

Edited November 16, 2019 by OldMansBeard

[Richardo11]

OldMansBeard:

 

Yes basically you are right, but there are ways.. Right that maintenance could be an issue, specially with SSE and therefore SKSE updating and all the hustle that it brings.. but you can, without any problem, stop your game to update (in fact Bethesda SSE updates are uniquely for commercial/greedy studio purposes, game mechanics and bug solving is not updating at all) .. so nothing wrong to stop updating and therefore no updating the mod list..

 

So there is one solution to the maintenance ... and even beyond that, you have actually in Nexus a bunch of very successful mod list (with updates) maintained for free -- YASHes / YASHed Extended (from the same mod list author Mnikjom and actually updating) / Lexy's LoT / Juantos mod list .. and sure a bunch i do not know/remember --- which proves as a matter of fact that maintained mod packs for free are feasible --- even further, downloadable mod backs requires even less work because those mod packs authors, at the same time that they update their mod pack they need to update all the instructions in the mod pack web, which it is a lot of work too

 

So no, free mod pack are perfectly feasible and mod pack download is solely matter of parts agreement, nothing more

 

Another thing to point is the term "responsibility" and about that i do not see why a mod pack author should have a higher level of responsibility than a mod author, that is not other than self-assumed responsibility, not obliged. In Nexus there is plenty of mod authors whom just upload a mod, aficionados let say, and that's it, there start and ends their "responsibility"

 

In the other hand, there is plenty of mod authors too ( I can make a list of 50 of them in a blink of an eye) that really care for their work and final users, but even them fade from the mod scene, because new games or just because like to everyone, time goes)

I think that clarifies perfectly the term "responsibility" and the burdens that it could bring, if fact, none.

 

Note aside, surprise me your statement of building a conflict free mod list with more that a bunch of mods is equivalent to a trivial mod, although i agree with you that that is judgement call, i wonder if you have try conflict solve a list lets say of 100 mod with half of them being big mechanics mod (mean no big textures mods, those, mostly are download/install and even those must be tested and it is a looooot to test)

 

I would like more people giving their view on this matter

[simtam]

Nexus promised to "tackle" the modpacks this year, please give these guys some slack, it doesn't even mean it will be a fully featured launch this year...

 

For all I know, a modpack system that is integrated into nexus could work like this:

- allow mod author to view the list of modpacks that this mod belongs to

- in the event that there are newer and older versions of a mod available, allow mod author to collaborate with modpack editor(s) in making the switch to the newer version

 

which pretty much solves those pairwise conflicts in mod logic.

 

The real problem is performance/resource profiling, because I suppose the Nexus modpack system will be game-agnostic, and what is needed for games such as Skyrim is a smart piece of software that checks the player's machine specs, and configures graphics options and/or mods enabled, so as to *guarantee* that there won't be memory overflow crashes (or else display a notification, "sorry, this modpack is not for potato machines such as yours").

[Richardo11]

Simtam

 

I do agreee, could be a solution and in fact i heard about it .... I heard so much about it that i am spending the last (free time) four days downloading like a crazy all mods that, either follow a mod list like Lexy's or YASHed and/or complementing it with mods that i do like but are not in those list ...

... The reason? ... I have also heard that some mod authors can/will take away/hide their mods and look for another solutions which have given my kinda of mod-panic-attack .... I cannot play Skyrim without EnaiSiaion mods to give an example among many. So i launched myself to build my own mod database even knowing that if that so, those mod will not update if that would be the case, but at least i have the mood

 

But in the end I do hope for the best and dream about those reeelly fatty mod list and conflict free (Yes I know, it will be still SKyrim engine an its limitations, but a dream is dream)

[Botchling]

If there is a pack that sorts load order and installation for you, by just clicking install... Then this is ofcouse a benefit to EVERYONE. If the mod pack would include some books about the mods, who made them possible and a reminder to endorse: That would be great and pretty much required to keep the community alive and not piss on great work.

 

A part of modding your game is to feedback, discuss and work together to make games better in general. I am amazed by what has been complished and I bet developers are keeping a close eye on it.

 

The most important thing is that this mod pack has been TESTED THOROUGHLY on a midrange spec potato and thus have pretty CLEAR SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS. Nothing else should be accepted.

 

Tested mod packs saves weeks of work for a gamer who no has interest to learn how to use tes5edit, clean mods or make his own patches. Thus the majority. And in this way more people will see how deep a game can be and how rewarding the experience is if you allow a community to customize their favorite game freely.

 

Thats all I have.

Edited November 16, 2019 by Botchling

[Richardo11]

Botching.

 

That would be a good idea, some kind of code (if it could be done) in the mood that remains you to endorse the mods and fires up every time you run the game until all mods in the mod list are endorsed ... hahahahhah .....Why not to? (yes, someone will say: Why should I endorse a mod i do not like? ..... Answer: Yet even with that, you are using a mod pack which the mod belong, like not endorsing a mod you enjoy but just a minor clutter texture you don't like and don't endorse the mod ... Is still the right of the user .. but...)

 

I think and believe, well build (and maintained?) mod packs (free conflict) will keep very the community alive.... Do you imagine how many people that don't have (mainly) the ability to install a mod list like Lexy's LodT (I did myself and at 3/4 of the list, something (surely) I have underseen started to get wrong and finally the whole mod pack derailed ... I did not have the guts to start anew... (for now) .. or YASHed/Yashed Extended ---- Do you know how many gameplay hours those modpack brings?

 

I am sure it will be tons of people/mod users that will jump on the hype.. in fact that is the reason of Nexus talking about it or that Wabbjack (whatever might it be)

 

About pc specs, I see it that way,

 

It is free choice to the mod pack builder to decide what pc minimum specs can run the mod pack .. If she/he decide that must be a state of the art PC, so might it be ... and so forth. Logically, the more wide the specs, the more users potentially

 

Hahahahahaha .... Agree with a correction "Tested mod pack saves weeks..." A mod pack like Lexy's or YASHed Extended have a couple a weeks just downloading mods (or you can be for a whole 2/3 days just downloading, dawn til dusk).... Installing/ follow conflict solve instructions / test (and back many than often) ... Been there not just a week but months -

 

Also if firmly believe that if the mod pack build could be done at the same time that mod authors rights are respected, more people (skilled people) will build and offer those builds, which in turn will benefit everyone user/mod author/ mod pack author

 

What are your thoughts bout guys?

[PowderedArmor]

I know it's late, and maybe it was said before. But don't wabbajack solve most of the problems?

[gnarly1]

I know it's late, and maybe it was said before. But don't wabbajack solve most of the problems?

I guess it depends what you mean by 'problems'. Last year(?) there was a moderated discussion between Arthmoor and Halgari about modpacks and automated installs. Perhaps that's a good place to start.