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Fallout4 CTD using keys

fallout4 mods ctd keys textures issues glitches

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#11
G4M3W1NN3R

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-Snip-

 

"I want to thank you for your help. Please understand me, I am not a mod maker and I try learn from them or from people like you". -Snip-

 

Dont worry i fully understand the situation, which is why i am writing my posts exactly as written, i am teaching you all the factors about modding :wink:

-Snip-.

"What I am trying to say is, that I will sort the load order because of quest mods and Start Me Up mod that has to be at the bottom, like MCS, Cheat Terminal too."

 

This is good, Load Order is the main priority for modding, A Correct Load Order will eliminate a lot of Potentional issues both immediatly and more importantly further down the line, when your saved games start becoming bigger, and likewise the game starts becoming unstable, sorting the load order immediatly will make your modding expereince much more fun and grant a much better success rate, this is the first thing you will want to do when modding, is creating a correct load order, then if you run into issues after that, you can create posts here, and people like myself will help you problem solve the issues

"Please be patient if I do not react quickly because I have to understand what's going on in the mods' world."

 

Dont worry i am very patient and will help you with your modding journey :smile:

 

"Many people say do not pay attention to xEDIT errors",

 

Ignore these people, they have no idea what they are talking about. these are probably the same people that ignore BSOD and then wonder why their computer is crashing, when BSOD literally tells you why via error codes, which you would research. basically meaning to completely ignore errors will mean you will not be researching them, meaning you will keep running into the same issues.

 

"FO4EDIT would shows often fault error, messages, the others say we should pay attention to the errors no matter which mods."

 

These are the people you should be listening to, and likewise you do need to pay attention to them issues that Fo4Edit is displaying, but you should also be checking the mod pages of the mods that have issues, before attempting to fix them yourself, as some errors are required for the mod to work

 

The Post Section and Bug Reports Section Especially, and the most important will be the Sticky Posts in the Post Section, keep an eye out for any posts made by the mod author of said mod that F04Edit is reporting issues, they will let you know if the issues are intentional or not. this is where researching mods especially apply.

"I would check with xEdit EVERY mod - one by one - but I have almost 400 plugins how should I handle it?"

 

As this is completely mandatory for any hopes of a stable game, you can load 254 mods each time, by right clicking on any mod and clicking on *Select None*, then tick the box next to each mod until you reach 254, however if any mod requires another mod that is not selected Fo4Edit will stop loading the mods, so you have to put in extra effort, which is the price you pay when running an excessive amount of mods. 

"I really want to thank you many times for your quick answers and helps and I will try to follow your guides too."

 

Your Welcome :smile:

 

Note: Same as before my replies to each specific statement are in Bold.

 

Note: just for reference, i have been creating mods, problem solving mods and learning how mods work, as well as all factors of modding for 7+ years, i have actually been modding much longer then that, as i used to mod Fallout New Vegas back in its day (so we are actually talking 9+ years of modding beth games, learning the Creation Engine and Geck), before that, i was programming for several years, creating programs that interacted with the Hexadecimal system to modify Roms (which is still modding) so all in all i have actually be modding and creating mods for about 15+ years. whilst simultaneously learning advanced problem solving via Assembly.

 

my 7+ years of mod creation taught me a lot about the engine, and its limitations, as well as how mods work.

 

so writing that above, to show you i know exactly what i am talking about when it comes to modding, so my advice will help you fully. i have always been a modder and a creator. :tongue:

 

Here is My Load Order Guide:

 

Spoiler
 
Note: Click on Show to view the Guide

Edited by G4M3W1NN3R, 17 November 2019 - 05:02 PM.


#12
manndesfriedens

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Hello, G4M3W1NN3R

First, I like it how you try to help with knowledge about modding and sorting the mods.
Because I am not a mod maker nor an expert in this section, I have to learn HOW TO, but for that, I need time to understand the situation.

Like I said, I want to play the game with as many mods as possible. When I pay attention to 255 limits, then I can forget all the mods, because there are MANY mods. Mod A need mod B and C, while mod B needs just A, and mod C needs A. So, I have to look carefully which mods is important and really required.

I am not that player who just installs with NMM maximum 80 mods and play. I want to play 'hide and seek' with Fallout 4!

When I have to pay attention to 255 plugins limits then I can give up playing with mods and play without mods then I will have no problems and I have to delete my accounts from Nexusmods, Loverslab, Vectorplus etc. sites. 

Why are ESL there? Since ESL's are out there why should I not install 500 mods?

By the way, I really do not like to play Fallout 4 without mods. Without mods, FO4 looks really colorless, 'tired', boredom, 'uggly' (faces, bodies, outfits, world layout). Mods add 'live' into the 'dead' game.

To come back to load order (mods to be loaded at last): As an example, "Star Me Up" mod: When I install and load it at very last (but above main patch mods - except UFO4P), Player Comments and Head Tracking has a patch for StartMeUp that needs StartMeUp and PlayerComments.

 

But Player Comments has to be installed above all other dialogue-relaed mods like Extended Dialogue Interface (XDI) and Immersive Generic Dialogues mods. So I then have to install/load all mods at very last.

 

Player Comments has also a patch for CWSS Redux v2, so I have to install/load CWSS after Player Comments, but CWSS belongs to "Settlement/Crafting" section.

When I let LOOT sort mods and play, I get ALWAYS slowdowns after hours in-game, because LOOT sorts the above mods mix-matched and in a completely different orders (StartMe Up on top, while player comments in middle load order). Because of that I use always Wrye Bash to see if mods are missing their 'Master' mods (with orange warnings on each plugin). And when I do not sort them Wrye Bash deos not let me make Bashed Patch file.

To come back to FO4EDIT check for errors: I let xEDIT check UFO4P and it found MANY errors.
And I looked, as you said, on plugins '+' and there are MANY MANY '+' on each plugin. It is impossible to check all + to find out what has red warnings. It would take months for me to check all plugins for errors and THEN solve the errors.

And I can not let FO4EDIT use 254 plugins what happens to others? Otherwise xEDIT unchecks other mods so that I have new load order with UN-checked plugins that I have sort again. Or I have to delete all mods to have the 253 limit (2 for Wrye Bash and FO4MERGED).

I had, when I made this thread two problems: BIG texture problems, that I fixed by myself already. But I have still the CTD when clicking in pipboy 'Datas' or "T" - not matter with keyboard keys or mouse). And this happens when I want to trade, opening containers, dead bodies (but not with all of them - just with certain containers etc.). 

This thread is NOT about having slowdowns because of plugins limit reached. I had no problems unntill a week ago while played with ALL the mods (about 350 plugins activated). I must have installed a mod that causes the CTDs and I want to find out what.

Wrye Bash shows 225 ESM/ESP and 157 ESL. The 255 ESM/ESP limit is not yet reached.
 



#13
StormWolf01

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Ok, bare in mind that I lost track of some of what's happened here, because of the very large responses.

First I have to ask because I lost track of it, whether or not this problem still happens to you on a test character, started from scratch with NO mods active?

If the answer that is YES, then even if you HAVE targeted and gotten rid of the mod that caused the problem, it's now baked into the save games of the characters that do have the problem. 

If the answer is YES, it does still happen, then there could something going on, that is not esp/esl/esm related. 

 

The PROBLEM itself is that your game cannot load items, or certain items correctly.   That's why you crash when trying to see your inventory, when you trade, or when you open certain containers.  Whether that's because of an error in sorting them, not being able to run the textures associated with them, or their ID tags are just outright fudged up.  

OR that your game can no longer list items correctly.  Either a problem with the part of the engine that creates said lists when you access contents, or again, back to FU'd itemID's.

 

  The PROBLEM is that you cannot use tools to try to find which mod(s) is/are causing the problem, because you have too many Mods.  You cannot use the tools, because you're not willing to try different builds, at a lower mod load.

 

Now, here comes the tough love.  But I mean it constructively.  K?

Since you can't use the tools, because you don't want to do what it takes to be able to use them, the only way you're gonna figure out what is causing this is to manually activate each one of those mods, test on a new character with no save games, and then go back and rinse and repeat.  That's the only way you're gonna find out which one(s) are causing this issue.

It might take you a few days, it might take you a few weeks (with that many mods).  Or you may end up finding out that it's a graphics issue or other corrupted file issue.

OR have to start all over, complete blank slate, clean install, clean new saves.

Or, (and here it comes) admit that you're being stubborn, trying to push the game past it's limits, and figure out how to have fun with the game within those limits.

If that doesn't work, well.... there's other games.


Edited by StormWolf01, 17 November 2019 - 11:35 PM.


#14
manndesfriedens

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Ok, bare in mind that I lost track of some of what's happened here, because of the very large responses.

First I have to ask because I lost track of it, whether or not this problem still happens to you on a test character, started from scratch with NO mods active?

 

The PROBLEM itself is that your game cannot load items, or certain items correctly.   That's why you crash when trying to see your inventory, when you trade, or when you open certain containers.

 

  The PROBLEM is that you cannot use tools to try to find which mod(s) is/are causing the problem, because you have too many Mods.  You cannot use the tools, because you're not willing to try different builds, at a lower mod load.

 

Or, (and here it comes) admit that you're being stubborn, trying to push the game past it's limits, and figure out how to have fun with the game within those limits.

If that doesn't work, well.... there's other games.

Hello, and welcome, my friend.

First, yes this thread has long responses.

Second, that's it, the game does not know which mod/plugin it has to start.

Third, I really do not know how check which mods causing the CTDs.

To being stubborn... You're right. I was too stubborn. I shouldn't act to tell everyone I want force make my game to make CTDs.

AND NOW...

MAYBE I have SOLVED the second problem too!
I said MAYBE... I have to play longer to be sure. I will report often about this.
 

I think I have solved the second issue (first was texture issues, second the trading/pipboy CTD).

1) I have deleted MANY mods - especially ALL Advanced Animation Framework and all mods requires AAF (poses, animations, themes). I had installed, if I am not wrong, approx. 40 AAF/-related mods!

2) Deleted other mods which had to do with survival (quests).

3) Deleted ALL save games.

4) Deleted all 'leftovers' from Fallout4 ScriptExtender (F4SE) folder in /My Games/Fallout 4/.

5) Deleted all 'leftovers' from the Mod Configuration Menu (MCM).

6) Installed many mods again (first UFO4P then the others).

7) Made Wrye Bash Bashed Patch.

8) Followed  G4M3W1NN3R guides and moved some mods to the bottom plugins load order.

9) Played the game awhile (approx. 1 hour), opened containers, traded with someone (with "E" key).

10) Opened pipboy, clicked on "Datas" menu, then all other menus, clicked on "T" (for Perks menu with keyboard key and mouse. I did it more times to be sure that it's working.
 
Now I have 445 installed mods and 315 activated plugins.

I want to thank you all for helping. I will try not be

 

 



#15
manndesfriedens

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I just want to show you all the installed mods and plugins lists.

MODS list (It's sorted in reversed order - so you have to read from BOTTOM first (bottom to top). 
(I do not know why but MO2 has saved the mod list in this reversed order)
(Bot lists are my actual lists)

Spoiler


And now the plugins list (LONG list):

Spoiler


EDIT: As I said before, the installed mods are matching with the plugins load order. Example: GrindFreeGameSettings.esp is in plugins loaded last and is installed in mod pane at very last mod. All other mods are the same - except Bashed Patch.


Edited by manndesfriedens, 18 November 2019 - 06:47 AM.


#16
StormWolf01

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Heya Mann :)  First off, thanks for taking my post with an open mind.  That's appreciated. :)

All I really did was try to get the discussion back to the root cause, and the problems themselves.  Gamewinner deserves literally all the credit, for all of his knowledge, experience, PATIENCE, and dedication.  If I hadn't already done so, I'd definitely give him kudos for banging it out through this one, hahaha.

Speaking of which, it sounds like you've done some pretty severe work yourself, on straightening out your load.  I'm really glad that to hear that you did that, as well as really glad to hear that doing so was able to straighten out your problem you were having.  Especially since it was one that would cripple so much of the game play.

It sounds like you did a lot of work.  Been there, done that, know what a pain it can be.  I make routine backups of my install folder,and save games, and ini files, for that very reason.  Hmm.  Interesting.  I may have to poke around in the F4se folders to see what all kinds of leftovers are in there.

 

One piece of advice I may pass along, since you do play with so many mods.  I have a  couple of what I call "test build characters".  They're characters that I've created with no mods running, manually exited out of the game via a 3 finger b**ch (Ctrl alt delete) after the first autosave.  I've got those characters saved to a dedicated folder on my external hard drive.  I can copy and paste them into my save files for a manual load anytime that I want to.   It's nice to have ;)

 

I also try to avoid "staple" mods, or "framework" mods that create such a load order pain in the rump.  Like the problem that youw ere having with AAF.  NOT that I'm trying to tell you what to do or anything, just that I myself like to avoid that hassle.  (Heck, I hate having to sort load order in the first place, it triggers my procrastination, hahaha)

 

One last thing that I might recommend, UNLESS you are using a Solid State Drive (SSD).  Go ahead and do a defrag on the drive all this was installed on.  You've done a bunch of deleting and over-writing.  So resorting all those file allocations on your drive isn't a bad idea.  But NOT on a SSD drive.  Avoid defragging those.  You can cause the memory chips on them to overheat by doing so.

 

Anyway, glad to hear that your game is on the road to recovery.  Sorry that it took so much work to get it there tho!



#17
manndesfriedens

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Heya Mann :smile:  First off, thanks for taking my post with an open mind.  That's appreciated. :smile:

 

All I really did was try to get the discussion back to the root cause, and the problems themselves.

 

Speaking of which, it sounds like you've done some pretty severe work yourself, on straightening out your load.

 

I may have to poke around in the F4se folders to see what all kinds of leftovers are in there.

 

I also try to avoid "staple" mods, or "framework" mods that create such a load order pain in the rump.  Like the problem that youw ere having with AAF.

 

One last thing that I might recommend, UNLESS you are using a Solid State Drive (SSD).  Go ahead and do a defrag on the drive all this was installed on.  You've done a bunch of deleting and over-writing. But NOT on a SSD drive.  Avoid defragging those.

Thank you for your nice words, my friend.

To 'open minded': No problem. I must to learn that I can be wrong with that what I am doing even so I think I am doing right. I must to 'confess' to my mistakes. So, I like it to talk to everyone, and listening to them.

To the solved problems: I think and hope that I have solved the second problem too. I also have played, after my last post, awhile, and did the same thing in-game. So, no CTD while trading, opening, using pipboy.

To F4SE: It's folder has ALWAYS leftovers. No matter if you delete the mod from the mod manager or from your Hard Disk Drive. You must look, after you deleted mods, in F4SE folder. Example: After I deleted Transfer Settlements mod F4SE had still one leftover of this mod. It's the same with MCM that has leftovers.

To AAF/Framework: I think AAF-related mods caused the CTDs (but not AAF itself). I also have deleted Sleep Intimate, Lovers Embrace and similar mods.

Now, I do not know exactly which mod caused the errors. But a mod that has with keyboard shortcuts to do, must caused the CTDs.

Have you looked at mod and plugins list??



#18
manndesfriedens

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After testing the game for weeks with MORE mods, I think I found out (i HOPE it!) what it was exactly with the CTDs with looting. 

 

I had installed Grab and Eat and Eating Off the Floor and Take and Equip or Use and Quick Trade Redux mods installed. Now, deleted all these mods.
 

I do not think it was AAF. Maybe it was.

 

But when I found out that clicking on "R" to trade with someone, permanently CTD. Quick Trade Redux mod caused this issue because it uses the "R" key.

Then I take care of Wrye Bash. After installing mods, I look in LOOT (Load Order tool), if there are 'dirty' mods.

Then I look in FO4EDIT (xEDIT), flag all plugins that beings with [FE..] as "ESL".

Then I look in Wrye Bash to see if there are red, orange plugins that need to be sorted to their 'Masters'.

Then I sort them on Mod Organizer 2 manually so that mod installation and plugins match together (ESMs first, then ESLs ('real' ESLs), then ESPs, while Wrye Bash is still open so that I sort on MO2 and Wrye at the same time.

Then I 'visit' FO4EDIT again, sort all plugins that need their correct DLC load order that was in Wrye Bash orange colored.

Now, all plugins are in Wrye Bash 'green' (means, there will be LESS Crash to Desktop issues - except CTD caused by non-ESM/ESL/ESP mods).

I just wanted report it, but I am still testing to see what will happen next - with HUGE activated plugins!







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: fallout4, mods, ctd, keys, textures, issues, glitches

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