[LE] CK removes master files & their records from the plugin.. Why?

[qwertypol012]

Alright, so i got this plugin (.esp) which is a merged file of several plugins which i merged using Merge Plugins. It was a bit big (around 8mb size), but since Merge Plugins merged it succesfully, i think it's not a problem. But Merge Plugins sent a notice that the navmesh needs to be rebuilt in CK (since Merge Plugins is unable to rebuild it), so i did as it says which is opening the plugin in CK then save it then exit CK.

 

The thing is that, after comparing the result of post-CK file (ie. after being saved in CK to rebuild navmesh) with the original file (pre-CK, ie. before being saved in CK), the result was totally unexpected. Several master files were removed from the plugin, and as the result, several records were also removed from the plugin (eg. some leveled items were removed, some edits to NPCs were removed, etc). I was totally flabbergasted... So, what the heck?? What the heck did the CK do?

 

So, could anyone please tell me what's going on here? What's wrong exactly? Did i miss a step or something?

I just want to simply rebuild the navmesh (which should be done by simply saving the plugin in CK right?), but why did this happen?

 

FYI.

I'm using this fix https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/99796 to make CK more stable and less prone to crash. It worked well, because without it i couldn't even open the plugin because CK was seemingly thinking that the plugin is too big or something like that. In addition, i also have no experience in CK other than compiling scripts (because it was the only thing i ever need from CK) because the tool is just unconvenient to use, looks complicated, and unstable, which hinders me from using it (i always use TES5edit to edit plugins or make mods since it's a lot more convenient, user friendly, and more stable).

Edited January 18, 2020 by qwertypol012

[Rizalgar]

I'm not 100% on why the CK would delete records on a merged plugin, but I can tell you this...

Auto-generated NavMesh is broken. Most of the time. It does a decent job, but you will still need to go back and manually edit a lot of it, depending on the landscape.

I.e. if you have a lot of tunnels/doorways in a dungeon, or a lot of statics in an open world space, it'll need a good bit of cleaning.

 

On a side note - I'm not too fluent in TES5Edit, as I've only ever used the CK with the aforementioned fixes. Have you loaded up the merged plugin in TES5Edit to check for any errors?

 

Edit - Have you considered trying to turn the merged plugin into an esm, then NavMeshing it as an esp?

Edited January 17, 2020 by Rizalgar

[IsharaMeradin]

Any plugin that has an ESP master will have those records removed when the plugin is saved in the Creation Kit. Why? An ESP file is technically not allowed to be a master file. The work around is to use either Wyre Bash to "esmify" the ESP master(s) prior to working in the Creation Kit or TES5Edit to change the appropriate value in the header of the ESP master. Just be certain to revert prior to testing in-game.

[qwertypol012]

@Rizalgar

Yes, i did use TES5Edit to check it and in fact it's from TES5Edit that i knew something is wrong. I've never considered to turn the plugin into esm though, because some master files are just esp and not esmified-esp, so it would make no sense for an esm plugin to have esp master files.

 

@IsharaMeradin

I see. That's too bad then. The plugin does have a lot of .esp master files.

Thanks for the suggestion. So, esmify all of the master files is the only way to solve this? It would be too much hassle then, since the plugin does have so many .esp master files :sad:

I'm also afraid if esmifying esp will mess up something from the file (i have no clue, hence i've been reluctant to do it)

An arising question is that, will my load order be changed if i esmify all of these master files? Because some of them are also master files of some other plugins. And in fact, i have several merged plugins just like the one messed up by CK above :confused:

 

Edit:

I got some other rising question

1. So, can i just forward the rebuilt navmesh record from the post-CK plugin into the original plugin (by using TES5Edit)? Some edits may necessary probably, but if it can simplify things then it's okay for me, i guess

2. This one is a bit tedious, but not impossible if the master files are not too many. So, what if i just use the post-CK plugin and then edit it in TES5Edit to forward the removed records (and bring back the removed master files) from the original file? Will the rebuilt navmesh be okay?

 

Edit 2:

I think i can answer my questions myself. The problem when trying these "alternative" methods was that, the post-CK plugin itself is flawed already. The removal of some master files causing the plugin to be having some errors if you check it in TES5Edit. So, the post-CK plugin simply can't be used safely. Now i'm trying my best to esmify the master files without messing up things, and hopefully the new post-CK plugin will be error-free.

Edited January 18, 2020 by qwertypol012

[qwertypol012]

Oh, i just remembered that i also got some related issues.

I tried to open and save some different plugins just like what i did with the messed up plugin above, but the result was that CK couldn't open it. CK immediately CTD when it's about intializing the files (after loading all master files). Another file even makes CK immediately closed even before trying to load master files (this one has the highest master files amount compared with other plugins). So, what's the deal with these happenings?

Edited January 18, 2020 by qwertypol012

[IsharaMeradin]

Fairly certain that the Creation Kit has an upper memory limit. I know it will crash after having opened 200+ individual windows through the course of a work session. So it stands to reason that loading a crap ton of masters can cause it to crash.

 

I know nothing about navmesh. Cannot help you solve that particular issue.

 

And yes, false flagging your ESP files to be treated as ESM files in the Creation Kit will change their load order position. They will be moved up with the rest of the ESM files. So if some of the master files have ESP masters, then those too would need to be false flagged. And before testing in-game, every one of them would need to have the false flag removed and their original load order position restored.

[qwertypol012]

Fairly certain that the Creation Kit has an upper memory limit. I know it will crash after having opened 200+ individual windows through the course of a work session. So it stands to reason that loading a crap ton of masters can cause it to crash.

 

I know nothing about navmesh. Cannot help you solve that particular issue.

 

And yes, false flagging your ESP files to be treated as ESM files in the Creation Kit will change their load order position. They will be moved up with the rest of the ESM files. So if some of the master files have ESP masters, then those too would need to be false flagged. And before testing in-game, every one of them would need to have the false flag removed and their original load order position restored.

It's a shame then, to think that CK has an upper memory limit like that. I have successfully rebuilt navmesh for several plugins which were previously messed up due to their master files were not flagged as esm. I esmified the master files, rebuilt the navmesh, saved the plugin, then reverted back the esm-fied master files into esp. So far they they showed no problems after being checked in TES5Edit.

But i still have 2 remaining plugins which should also have their navmesh rebuilt in CK. Now i don't even know what to do with these 2 plugins, because they're the plugins which CK was unable to handle/open (will CTD in the end). :confused:

 

Thanks for the help anyway :smile:

Edited January 18, 2020 by qwertypol012