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#1
clanky4

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So I wanted to make a post uhh elder final quest for the BoS. Like a few quests given by a random npc after you do the final quest for whichever elder. So that would be Eyesight to the blind and Tend to your Business.
 
I guess if you went with McNamara you'd get a bunch of boring stuff like getting supplies and intel or some stuff. 
 
Honestly, he kind of used the courier to their utmost. He had you recover the recon data that had been lost, retrieve the info from his scouts, get vital supplies to fix up the bunker, and then install an override onto a, I guess, long range satellite radio thing. Thats lost data, vital supplies, and future potential valuable information. McNamara didn't seem to want to go overtly offensive. So I'd assume it would be more of the same. Just, potentially, establishing more robust supply chains and more in depth intelligence gathering. Doesn't seem like much of interest can be done there.
 
Now Hardin's I think could be a bit more interesting. You'd get some more aggressive raider type stuff. Destroying points of interest.
 
Hardin really only seemed to use the courier to get stuff started. He had you recover the recon data that had been lost, build up a case to oust the last elder, and destroy distributors of energy weapons. He was far more aggressive in his dealings but I'm not entirely sure if he would want to be overt about it. I doubt he'd want to directly go up against the bigger players like the NCR. Maybe raids, supported or unsupported by paladins, against the lucky 38(kill Mr. House), helios 1(kill the CO), black mountain(kill tabitha. mcnamara effectively tells you to do this), Camp McCarren/Golf(kill CO) and maybe Nellis(kill leaders) against the boomers. Most of this stuff would already be handled by the main quest anyhow. But maybe a little extra XP and a little extra temporary companions.
 
Maybe have the option for, regardless of who you go with, to request some aid to assault the securitron vault under the fort. As well as aid during the hoover dam fight (they'd act the same as the securitron you get in the yes man/house ending). Presumably this would only be available in Yes Man ending or NCR/Mcnamara ending.
 
Any thought on this? Maybe there is already a mod out there that more less does this? It always kind of bummed me out that after your given a title within the brotherhood you gain exactly one broken power armor and one ok perk. 

Edited by clanky4, 23 July 2020 - 07:24 PM.


#2
devinpatterson

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Any thought on this?


I'd like to throw some ideas around, as I have two mods this would apply to. One is a little thread called Dawn of Steel-The Rise of the Mojave Brotherhood. It is similar to what you're suggesting (quests to aid the BOS) but with a heavy emphasis on lifting the BOS from a minor faction to a major faction via acquiring the securitrons for the brotherhood (with their technical prowness and the robot army they are able to hold their own with the big guys like the legion and NCR....at least in the NV region). But I can also produce a alternate mod without those aspects.
The second mod is for the independent new vegas ending, and creating a strong alliance between a the city state of NV and the brotherhood.
Long story short, I need quest ideas to accomplish to ingratiate the courier to the brotherhood.

I have assets for a mid sized, high level quest mostly completed. The basic pitch is Hardin sent a squad of paladins to dead money to acquire the holographic tech (holo super army), they failed in their mission and although their power armor lasted longer than the DM protective suits, they eventually failed and produced a very powerful version of powered armor ghost people.






You are tasked with finding the paladins (recovering tech if serving Hardin, rescue mission if serving Elder McNamara). The paladins were equipped with some advanced/expirmental weapons to deal with the ghost people (plasma cutters etc for dismemberment....and to take advantage of the ghost people's native animations), so their arsenal is formidable. There are logistics to work out in re: to timing (the players completion of dead money, at least a few weeks for the paladin's to be "changed" etc), but I think it's worth creating. My initial thoughts were that each paladin would be a mini boss and they were no longer traveling together in a squad.
 

It always kind of bummed me out that after your given a title within the brotherhood you gain exactly one broken power armor and one ok perk.


Absolutely, and I wonder just how lore bending (hopefully not breaking) it would be to allow the player to ascend to a much grander title like star paladin if the courier's help is truly monumental to the brotherhood.
 

Maybe there is already a mod out there that more less does this?


I looked around and I did'nt really find anything so far

Sorry a bit short time at the moment, but I'll try and throw out some more quest ideas as soon as I have some free time.



#3
clanky4

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You raise some interesting ideas. However I'm not entirely sure about their implementation. Just in my experience large scale mods generally have trouble getting off the ground.

 

With what you mentioned about Hardin sending out scouts to the Sierra Madre. If anyone would do that I would think it would be Hardin. On the one hand, in the extremely limited experience we have with his leadership style in game, he seems more brash and more likely to commit resources to something that would further the brotherhood/his goals. On the other hand I'm not too sure how keen the Mojave chapter would be to "chase ghosts" after the Father Elijah, Helios I thing.

 

Going along with your "make the Brotherhood be the independent option" thing. I had an idea that isn't exactly that but, under hardin, you could forge a sort of pseudo alliance between the Brotherhood and the other minor factions that are overtly hostile to the NCR. Kind of forming a loose alliance between the BoS, khans, fiends, and others that I've forgotten about because losers don't matter in the history books. In the same vein that the major factions will have you interact with the minor factions. Again, I don't think McNamara would do anything that aggressive. 

 

In general most of the things that the Brotherhood would ask of the player are effectively already in game given by one member or another. That is: finding advanced tech, lost equipment, lost patrols(pretty sure there is a quest for this in every mainline 3d fallout game), important data, defeating enemies of the BoS.

 

The Brotherhood's rankings are kind of weird. At least in the 3d games they seemed to change from game to game. In Fallout 3 you had squires, star paladins, and commanders. New Vegas just seemed to have the plain old (head)  scribe, (head)  knight, (head) paladin, elder deal. Fallout 4, changed everything, proctors, lancers, and sentinels.



#4
devinpatterson

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You raise some interesting ideas. However I'm not entirely sure about their implementation. Just in my experience large scale mods generally have trouble getting off the ground.


Yeah I can understand your concern, but this mod is relatively modest in scope because the grunt work was already done by the developers in dead money. I'll be adding some characters (mini boses and additional ghost peep followers), but except for one area I'm using existing assets/locations (I want an underground sewer/utility access tunnel).

 

On the other hand I'm not too sure how keen the Mojave chapter would be to "chase ghosts" after the Father Elijah, Helios I thing.


I'm no lore guru, but I think Hardin is *very* motivated to acquire tech that could propel the BOS into a position of power and he's pragmatic about the risk to his paladins ("A commander has to be able to deal with the potential loss of his men."
The holo tech, on the face of it, is a huge force multiplier/advantage. In addition Hardin is very much against the BOS current policy of concealment and relative passivity, but to have a hand in the Mojave theater means military might. It is the essence of his desire to usurp the Elder McNamara even though he has great respect for him.

Don't get me wrong there are multiple reasons why this may not be a 100% fit in re: to plot. Your point about chasing ghosts, the fact that dead money isn't explicitly mentioned in dialogue with the BOS (which can be fixed, via a bit of chatting with BOS peeps), the timing (between spilling the beans and if Hardin is killed beforehand, the paladins being MIA for at least a few days or maybe weeks), finding the entrance to DM without Dog/God (which we see fixed in various return to DM addons), etc. But I think it's close enough to the BOS's quest for technology and Hardin's drive that it does'nt fly in the face of Lore.

Also in the same vein, the Y-17 trauma override harness, could be another venture (tipped by dialogue with the courier) for the BOS to lust after. Installed in power armor it would be a great advantage. After atempting to aquire the tech, the courier could find that it was also being tested in a military contract for power armor. I could clone a OWB research center and drop in some skeletonized power armor to clunk heads with.

 

but, under hardin, you could forge a sort of pseudo alliance between the Brotherhood and the other minor factions that are overtly hostile to the NCR.



I think that is plainly possible with Elder McNamara, but doubtful with Hardin "Hardin's uncompromising attitude would preclude a cease-fire or alliance with any of the factions in the Mojave." source; "Hnh. Going to wipe the slate clean. Kimball, the Republic... Hardin, McNamara, my "brothers." Then I'll head back West." But that uncompromising drive is a good explantion for his quest for tech that could help him achieve the power to deliver his objective.
 

Again, I don't think McNamara would do anything that aggressive.


I don't really see that as aggressive per se, I think it would in McNamara's philosophical wheelhouse. "Elder McNamara is described by Veronica as being one of the Brotherhood's most progressive members. He, under the appropriate circumstances, will even support the NCR."

 

As I mention, I'm no lore guru, so I tend to rely on the vault wiki. Obviously things have changed since the original BOS chapters in former days, and McNamara is something of a new breed when compared to the BOS of FO2 or even the DC champter.



#5
dubiousintent

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Here's a couple of cents worth of thought.

 

While I am not immersed in the lore of the Fallout series, it has always appeared to me that the focus of the BoS is given as "preserve the old technology".  But becoming a "museum" is not very interesting, influential, or profitable.  And maintaining a technology base over the long haul requires materials, infrastructure, and expertise which translates to "trade, manufacturing, training, and education".

The primary political difference between McNamara and Hardin is preservationist vs expansionist philosophies.  The preservationist approach of "hunker down and wait for things to get better" is the siege mentality limited by dwindling supplies.  This is the current BoS situation and it is obviously failing.  The expansionist policy is assuming techno superiority, but is hampered by a "numbers" disadvantage and only a marginal tech superiority.  In both approaches, the common component is a "go it alone" strategy.  It's "them versus everyone else".

This leaves the political approach open for the Courier to bring to the BoS.  He has at least the opportunity to create positive working relationships with numerous factions in the region.  Which means he can become an "influence peddler" (aka "a politician").  If the BoS wants to expand it's influence in the Mojave, then they have to engage with the neighbors, build relationships, and be seen as at least someone others want to establish an accommodation with.  Cornering the market on "high tech" can be tolerated (reluctantly as a monopoly) if they are willing to sell it.  If all they want to do is keep it to themselves, then they are a threat to be defended against.

Politics is just "deal making", or "speech/skill checks" in game terms.  You might have to fight your way (figuratively as well as literally) through layers of bureaucratic interference to get to the policy maker, and then you have to find the correct "button to push" to get the deal you want.  Often it requires getting multiple political interests to agree, but the more effective the politician, the more "favors" or "political debts" they can call in when needed to achieve a desired result.  These would be the result of basically "fetch" quests, though they should be more along the lines of "fetch an agreement" instead of an item.

-Dubious-



#6
madmongo

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I'll add my 2 cents as well.

 

As far as lore goes, the BoS doesn't see themselves as a museum. They see themselves more as the chosen ones, the true successors of the old world. They hoard technology because they think that they are the only ones entitled to have it. The rest of the wasteland is just a bunch of savages who need to be wiped out so that the BoS can rise and take over the world (or at least what used to be the U.S.).

 

There is a huge difference between the attitudes of the east coast BoS and the west coast BoS, even though they both started as the same group. The east coast BoS started as an expeditionary group, and since they were a relatively small group, they had to work with the locals just to survive. This worked out well for them, and they started to see wastlanders not as savages but as people that they could work with. They went through a major philosophical change, led by Elder Owyn Lyons. They started to accept outsiders into their ranks, and they became the heroes of the wasteland thanks to Project Purity (Fallout 3).

 

Things didn't go so well on the west coast. The locals didn't see them as heroes, and when they tried to prevent the NCR from growing and becoming powerful, that led to the NCR-Brotherhood War that almost completely destroyed the BoS. Since the west coast still saw wastelanders as savages, they refused to let outsiders join their ranks, and as the NCR grew, the NCR was able to replenish its troops and just overwhelm the BoS with sheer numbers. The BoS, despite their superior technology, couldn't recruit new troops (well technically they could, they just refused to do so), so in a war of attrition, the BoS didn't have a chance.

 

The NCR completely shattered the BoS. By the time of FNV, all that is left of the west coast BoS are tiny fragmented chapters, most of which are like Hidden Valley, completely cut off from the rest of the BoS, and are reduced to hiding in bunkers so that the NCR doesn't completely finish them off.

 

They aren't hoarding technology for any museum-like purpose. They hoard technology because it's the only advantage that they have over the evil wasteland savages like the NCR, and because they don't want the evil savages to also end up with technology that would make them even stronger.

 

The Mojave chapter of the BoS is not only cut off from the rest of the BoS, but they also lost about half of their numbers trying to defend Helios One. That is where McNamara's preservationist attitude comes from.

 

That "go it alone" strategy in the west coast BoS comes from the fact that every time they have dealt with outsiders, it hasn't gone well.

 

You also have to keep in mind that while the east coast BoS are the guys with the best toys in the area, they don't have a monopoly on technology on the west coast. They have competition from the Enclave (which has also been beaten down into almost non-existence by the NCR) and the Shi. You also have the Followers of the Apocalypse who aren't just doctors. They are what follows the apocalypse, they are all about what comes next, rebuilding the world. They have researchers like Arcade Gannon and they have technology specialists like Emily Ortal. After the FOA split from the NCR over philosophical differences, the NCR set up its Office of Science and Industry. The only thing the OSI does in FNV is sends you to Vault 22, but they are much bigger than that. The OSI is based in Shady Sands. The office in Camp McCarran is just a tiny little branch office.

 

McNamara is afraid to "poke the bear", which isn't surprising considering how much the BoS has lost to the NCR. However, everyone in the BoS bunker at hidden valley has lost close friends and family members to the NCR, at Helios One and before that as well. If McNamara is still running things, he won't officially sanction any action against the NCR. But I can imagine a pissed off Paladin going off on his own to hire the Courier to do things like kill the commanding officer at Helios One (revenge!) and/or crippling Helios One so that the NCR can't get any practical use out of it. Completing Helios One in any way that doesn't benefit the NCR like sending all the power to the Strip instead might be enough to satisfy the BoS.

 

I think Hardin is much more willing to "poke the bear", but to make things easy for the mod you could have the same Paladin give the quests regardless of who is in charge. It's just that with Hardin this Paladin would have support from the Elder, where with McNamara in charge the Paladin would be going off on his own.

 

As for raids, I think this would be easy to add in a mod, especially if you do things like raid NCR supply lines by attacking new NCR supply caravans that you add to the Mojave. This would likely have little impact on the vanilla game or other mods. And again, have that new Paladin give the quest, either with Hardin's blessing or behind McNamara's back.

 

For the Securitron Fort, I can picture the BoS supporting this if there is a promise of new tech. Maybe add a parallel quest to extract data from the Securitron Fort's computers for the BoS as part of the deal.

 

Fetch quests are a no-brainer. The BoS is desperate for more tech to help them beat the NCR and their other enemies. Stealing tech from the Boomers and grabbing tech from the vaults and Black Mountain would be the obvious targets. Maybe have the Courier sneak into the OSI at McCarran to steal computer data or some other tech since the Courier has access to McCarran and the BoS doesn't. You could put some tech to steal in the storage room in the Followers Fort in Freeside as well, and maybe have the Courier fetch medical data about implants from the FOA clinc (the medical clinic where Dr. Usanagi is located). You could even have a quest to obtain certain tech items so that the BoS could use this implant data plus some materials that the Courier fetches to turn some of their Paladins into cyborg-ish super-soldiers. The reward for the Courier could be the same combat-enhancing implants.

 

As for aid during the Hoover Dam fight, that's a tough one. You would have to convince the BoS to help the group that mercilessly slaughtered over half of the Hidden Valley chapter of the BoS. That's going to be a tough sell. You might only be able to get them to agree to it if you tell the BoS that you plan on double-crossing the NCR at the end of the battle. And then of course the courier would have a choice at the end of the battle to go through with this double-cross or to double-cross the BoS instead and have the NCR wipe out the BoS. If you side with the BoS, you could make it so that a BoS Paladin tosses General Oliver over the side of the dam.

 

As for Brotherhood rankings, it's basically Squire, Initiate, Knight, Paladin, Elder, with Scribes being a separate branch reporting to Paladins. As the BoS grew they needed more granularity in their ranks, so these ranks were split. And since the BoS also split into an east coast group and a west coast group, exactly how these ranks were split differed. For example, since the east coast BoS allowed outsiders into their ranks, Elder Lyons decreed that the rank of Squire was reserved only for someone who was born into the BoS. An outsider couldn't be a Squire. Lyons also brought in engineering and machining personnel as Scribes, which in the traditional BoS were positions reserved only for Knights. Lyons didn't want to bring in outsiders and make them Knights, but he also needed more ranks of Scribes since he now had Scribes of all different skill levels and areas of responsibility. Maxson added Lancers into the mix (basically it's the BoS Air Force). The Mojave chapter of the BoS follows a variant the older ranking system, with additional granularity by adding different ranks of Scribes, Knights, and Paladins. They also start training Paladins as a separate career path instead of just promoting them from Knights. So yeah, it's a bit of a complicated mess, but that's because it had to evolve as the BoS grew in size and as the BoS split each group evolved independently.



#7
clanky4

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Thank you everyone for the feedback. I have the basis of the mod set up in the GECK and am testing it. Everything is handed out by a, generic, spawned in NPC.

 

BoS Questline breakdown:
GENERAL Stuff:
Enable an NPC questgiver after completion of:
VMS55a/VMS55b
(Hardin/McNamara)
 
Hardin Stuff:
Raid NCR Caravans.(destroy caravans between Helios I and Novac/188 Trading Post)
(enable added caravans in these locations)
 
Avenged Steel
Raid Ranger Station Alpha(kill RSAlphaLineholm)
Raid Ranger Station Delta(kill RSDeltaPason)
Raid Camp Golf(kill spawned commander)
(enable either NCR commander inside house resort)
(enable 3-4 BoS Paladin Allies)
 
Remembering the Fallen
Wipe out Black Mountain(Complete VMS57)
Avenge the fallen at Nellis Air Force Base(Kill Pearl and Loyal)
(enable 2 BoS Paladin Allies)
 
McNamara Stuff:
 
Establish caravan route with nearby caravans(Pass Speech/Barter check OR pay 500 caps to Caravan Trader near Novac/188 trading post)
(enable added caravans in these locations)
 
Offer a caravan protection(just a dialogue option)
(enable added caravans along I-15)
 
Clear the I-15 of hostiles(kill spawned creatures)
(enable 4 groups of creatures along the road)
 
Reclaiming the Past
Investigate the Crashed Vertibird for Advanced Components(WeapNVTeslaCannonUnique)
Investigate for the REPCONN headquarters for Advanced Components(WeapNVPlasmaRifleUnique)
 
Neutral Stuff:(given regardless of who the elder is)
Oh No Mr. House(available if the player has the platinum chip)
Kill Mr. House(VMQHouseFail/vfreeformlucky38)(GetGlobalValue vStoryEventMrHouseNeutralized >= 1)(1 is disable cerebral interface/2 is killed)
(enable 2 BoS Paladin Allies)
 
Restoring Honor
Assault Helios I(kill spawned commander)
(enable either NCR or legion commander depending on if the player activated archimedes I during VMS03)
(enable 3-4 BoS Paladin Allies, less if McNamara is elder)

 

Just need to finish testing to make sure all the quests work properly and then do a proper run through to make sure it is balanced.

 

Even the small squad that assaults Helios One is able to blow through everything there, along with the extra NPCs added, without issue. The legion aren't able to get close to them without getting blown away.






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