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Pure dissapointment

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#31
AugustaCalidia

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Bene, verum nil tanti.  Vide infra.



#32
AugustaCalidia

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I've tried vortex several times and it is done in a way to be smart for simple mod organising and for as many games as possible but for a robust advanced mod organiser it's anything but, things like to the simple ability to save backup restore your current setup, ability to keep the game folders clean is not possible. I'm in my own world here. My own opinion. For me, I could not get over the practicaity of MO and expected the same functionality. The way it added files to the game folders magically.. I love MO and continue to use it, it's a fantastic designed program.
 

 

You fault Vortex for not keeping game folders "clean" and then praise MO for "magically" adding files to the game folders, which would mean those folders are not "clean."  Is this not a contradiction?

 

In fact, however, MO does not add files to the game folder at all, magically or otherwise.  It's big selling feature was "mod isolation," made possible by symlinks.   In Vortex, Tannin has maintained a version of mod isolation by using hardlinks in the game folder and storing the mod files themselves in a separate Mod Staging Folder.  The game folder remains clean because it contains hardlinks, not mods.

 

You might argue that the game folder is no longer "clean" if it contains hardlinks.  However, even if that were true, it is a difference that makes no difference.  MO operates in a clean game folder environment, and Vortex operates in a "virtually" clean game folder environment.  Purgeable hardlinks make this possible, for they are "visitors" in the game folder, not "permanent residents."  Therefore the fact that MO places no files whatever in the game folder does not grant it abilities not already present in Vortex.


Edited by AugustaCalidia, 08 September 2020 - 11:24 PM.


#33
Tannin42

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There is nothing wrong with personally preferring one mod manager or the other. I too am very glad that Mod Organizer and NMM are still being maintained. Taste is a big aspect of it.

 

But people have to understand that it is, in fact, a matter of taste.

Mod Organizer doesn't use symlinks, it uses its own mechanism which may be best described as "virtual links": the files are only visible to certain processes. If the process is terminated (normally or crash doesn't matter), the files are automatically gone. They don't have to be cleaned up in a process that might fail.

 

This is a neat feature I'm still proud of, but it does have drawbacks, e.g.

a) the files will only be visible to processes started from MO. Some games can't even be started directly and have to be run through a game store for DRM reasons. Not a problem for MO supporting only gamebryo games but would be a huge problem for Vortex trying to support >100 games

b) Because it's so "magic" it's also confusing and surprising to users. For many people it's irritating more than convenient

c) Because it has to insert itself into the communication between game and operating system, it has the potential to cause crashes and hard-to-detect bugs and it will always be quite suspicious to security software.

With Vortex I can say with confidence: If your game crashes then your game is mis-configured or mods aren't installed correctly. No matter what bugs Vortex has: at the end of the day all it does is put files/links into directories. With MO that's not possible, if there is a bug, that can crash the game.

 

For you these drawbacks may be minor, for others they aren't.

 

If you enjoy Mod Organizer: Great. Honestly, I have absolutely no reason to try and convince you otherwise.

Please do make sure you tell the current MO devs how much you enjoy it, don't just tell us how great the competition is. :wink:

 

What I would appreciate though is that when you recommend mod managers to people, don't just go "MO > Vortex". Explain to people what the respective strength of the tools are, we have way too much herd mentality in this regard.



#34
AugustaCalidia

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@Tannin42

 

Thank you for your always helpful, instructive comments, especially in regard to "virtual links."



#35
rmm200

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@Tannin42

 

Only thing I would request on Links is something to warn users to not move / copy / backup a game having active hard links.

Maybe put a warning in the base game directory "WARNING - do not move / copy / backup this directory without issuing Purge from Vortex first!". Zero length text file.

Add it on any Deploy and remove it on any Purge.

 

We are getting too many users moving their game directories around...







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