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How to CLEAN your SAVEGAMES from BROKEN SCRIPTS - Tutorial - Solving C


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#271
dAb

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@dAb : So to cut through the histrionics, I visited Thirsk myself. It was several kinds of awesome. I had already taken it back for the Nords, and when I entered, the original Riekling brood was standing inside the door. Well, this was a Nord house. Full of Nords.

The ensuing battle was epic. And the Nords there knew who I was, and what I had done for them prior to the script purge.

But no breakage, sorry.

 

Huh? THAT is exactly the breakage we're talking about here. Do you realize that everything that scripts have done in your game doesn't exist anymore? That little glitch you've been experiencing in Thirsk is exactly what should ring you a bell, because from now on it will be like that and even worse for EVERYTHING you have done so far. What exactly did you expect when we talk about breakage, your PC blowing up?



#272
cretin0us

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@dAb : Breakage is a non-recoverable state or condition in the purged save game, where the only solution is to restore to a backup save. You'll have to prove to me that exists, because so far I"ve seen nothing.

If breakage is the occasional relocation of actors, or a weapon rack or Serana reset, then all the hand-waving about "ruining your save game" is ridiculous.

The scripts I had frozen in-place in my savegame and the resulting CTDs were doing far more damage than filling Thirsk with confused Rieklings ever could.

And if this is the kind of breakage you're talking about, then I'm glad we're on the same page.


#273
cretin0us

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I'll say it again. I'd like some concrete evidence of any game-breaking script states held within this space. So far we have Serana, so that's one. But Vilja's still hot for me, with no relationship change there AT ALL, and that's about as script-heavy a mod as we've got on the Nexus. Cerwiden, check. Atavir. Check. Mainline quest status, check. Dragonborn status, check.

Based on what I've seen, in fact it's very rare for any state variables to be held in this space. Any mods that do are possibly environmental (like Frostfall) or a few complex animation mods (*grin*), where you lose absolutely nothing by reloading them from a clean save.

But no, I didn't have to reload Frostfall. It just worked.

I'll just keep hammering on it.



#274
dAb

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Well you won't get any evidence from me because I'm certainly not going to test this thing just to point you exactly at what's wrong with it so you can reproduce the issue. Your game has now two different states: one is the quests progresses, the other is what Papyrus has stored for those quests. Quest stages aren't Papyrus data, that's why you see the quests status in good shape. Papyrus data related to them, however, it's not. You don't even have to test the thing thoroughly in game to realize it: just enable Papyrus logging, do random stuff for a while and see what the log is filled with.



#275
cretin0us

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@dAb : Well, then you can't help. What we need is far less ZOMGWTFBBQIMNOTDOINGTHISNEITHERSHOULDYOU wharrgarbl and a more reasoned, rational approach to this.

Fact one: for savegames with damaged scripts embedded in them, this method helps. That fact alone means that the genie is out of the bottle. Sorry about that.

Fact two: the disruption this causes, which is real, can be fixed by console commands or mod reloads.

Fact three: we need testers to show where the oddities are, so that when Joe Schmoe *does* pollute a mod thread with problems spawned by this, then us helpful types *know* what to do about it besides "YOU SUCK, GET OUT", which is really not quite as helpful.

That's it. That's all this is. Don't bring the heavens down on those of us who know what the hell we're doing, or are willing to take responsibility for our own games.

 

EDIT:  I don't know.  Part of me might agree that this needs to go away, certainly be less visible, just based on the lack of diligence by many mod users; and I REALLY hate it when mod authors are discouraged because of dumbass support requests.  But for me, it's been a useful tool, and not at all a bad in-game experience.  In fact, I'm able to fully enjoy mods that were broken before, so my experience has improved.



#276
Deathneko11

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dAb, if a person's game is broken to the point where that save is not even playable, then so what if all of the scripts get wiped from that save file if it at least makes the save playable again? major questline can get back on track with a few console commands, and while much of the game will remain broken at least an old friend that many corrupted save files are to these people will be playable again. If it's already broke, then what's wrong with taking a sledgehammer to it if some of the parts get hammered back into place eh? slack up and let these guys get their beloved characters back that can't play them without a hack like this.

#277
dAb

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Well, if you think you know what you're doing, I'll say it again: have a look at the Papyrus logs. If anything, it should at least give you a hint about what you're doing. That's all I can say.

 

I really hope you people don't ever, EVER blame any mods authors for any problems this hack is going to arise.

 

Have fun.

 

/out



#278
Arthmoor

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Would you cut the head off a cancer patient to cure their cancerous toe? No.

Would you burn an entire forest to ash to get rid of one stand of sick trees? No.

Would you willingly let someone zero out your entire banking history to purge one corrupt transaction? No.

Would you black out an entire image because you screwed up one corner of it with red pixels? No.

So why on Earth would you ever consider using something on a save game that does precisely the equivalent of one of the above? Irreversible damage is the only possible result of this. You can already see it in several pages of comments here. It's only going to get worse.

People are ALREADY blaming mod authors for bugs that were introduced through the use of this boulder. Personally, if I find anyone in my threads who has used this tool, I'm going to direct them here so that THIS MOD'S AUTHOR gets to deal with the aftermath, not me.

The effort should have been directed toward a proper understanding of decoding the save game format instead of detonating nuclear devices in the data instead.

#279
flexcreator

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@SomeWelshGuy,
@Slavovitsh,
@lordpeterwimsey,
@Arklon,
@SilentSpike69,
@ishmaeltheforsaken,
@doofkopf,
@karpik777,
@rdum,
@Arthmoor,
@dAb,
@Sawgrass,
@Chesko,
@erelde,

Thanks. I appreciate your feedback.


Just a few more questions. So, do you think that restoring variable states aftermath is WRONG in some fundamental way (we are not talking about console right now)? If so, please, help me understand why? Why we need a scalpel to cut away the broken parts? Maybe you know something that I don't.

#280
Shadowjin

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@flexcreator
Oh don't be silly.
Half of the people who are using funny ways to explain using of this tutorial don't have any idea of what they are saying.

They are just saying so because someone did so before.
 

Though, Arthmoor does have good point there. People don't know where they should post their "issues" (Though, clearly it's self caused as it's clearly stated here)
It's like technology beta. Someone told it's possible, now we need some tech-monkeys to build tool that could clean only "safe" data. 
(Though, I am not professional myself, so I don't know what is "safe". However, I do know it's gonna take some time)
 

Anyhow, people should think about before using this, and:
FOR MARA'S SAKE. USE BACKUPS. 
AND IN CASE YOU NOTICE STUFF GOT MESSED UP, USE THE BACKUP.
AND REMEMBER TO DISABLE MODS, JUST AS SAID IN TUTORIAL.

 






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