Blender - 2.49b / 2.6X workflow - What You Can Do.

[iClustaFlux]

...please excuse the formatting of this post, the forums killed it and i cant restore it at this point.

 

Purpose of this article:

 

• An aid / guide / outline to anyone using Blender to create new content for Skyrim.
• To clarify what you can and can't do (at the time of writing) in different versions of Blender with regards to modelling and texturing.
• To provide a logical workflow (and possible variations) to include using the latest versions of blender.
• Describe solutions to common problems working with different blender versions and compatibility (Q & A).

What this article does not intend:

• To teach you how to use software mentioned (NifSkope, NifScripts Blender versions)

** some relevant links will likely be provided in a later edit, but for now I'm just outlining the basic workflow.

Preface / Ramble:

Upon reaching the decision that I myself wanted to try my hand at creating an armour mod, I started investigating what steps would be needed.

Being a user of blender 2.5+ and never having really gotten along with older (2.49b and lower) versions, I felt dismayed that everything seemed to revolve around 2.49 due to the fact (at the time of writing) it has the only fully function .nif support via a plugin.

Nevertheless I plunged in and got busy extracting my .bsa's and went through the process of cleaning and exporting with NifSkope, and figuring out how to properly import things using 2.49.

The more I poked around the unfamiliar and ugly UI of 2.49, the more my eyes hurt and longed for the familiarity of the 2.5/6x UI I was so used to, so I started to see what might be possible with regards to backwards compatibility...

As it turns out, all the way up to version 2.62 the bulk of the data in a saved .blend file could be read by 2.49!

 

But why only up to 2.62? Well because after that point, the way blender handles its meshes goes through a drastic change, and virtually all compatibility gets broken - but there are some workarounds (see Q&A)

Anyhoo... moving along..

The Comfort Workflow:

A) Starting with NifSkope and Blender 2.49b

1. Clean .nif files with NifSkope. [*needs a link]
2. Import .nif files using Blender 2.49b with NifScripts. [*needs a link]
3. Save your blender project to a new .blend file

B) Blender 2.62 - Getting comfortable!

1. Open your saved .blend
2. Get busy doing your modelling and texturing work in comfort with the familiar UI.
3. Save your project.

C) Back to 2.49b

1. Open your project.
2. Fix up your vertex groups. [*needs a link]
3. Do any weighting work thats needed. [*needs a link]
4. ! Save your project !
5. Export your new model(s).

So really, all you need 2.49 for is importing/exporting, working with vertex groups and weighting. Once the NifTools team are up to speed porting their work over to the new Blender API we should be able to drop 2.49 from the process altogether, and hopefully no more "cleaning" work with NifTools either.

Blender 2.62+ and some basic Q & A:

This section is just to outline some likely scenarios Blender users might be faced with.

Q) I really want to make us of texturing features in newer builds, is there no way I can do this?
A) Yes, you can!

1. Make a copy of your .blend project.
2. Open the copy in your latest blender version.
3. Get busy with your favourite features to create your new textures.

NOTE: If you realise you need to alter the UV maps - go back to your 2.49/2.62 project .blend, make the changes and save. You can either copy the file and start over with your latest version (if your not too far into it for example) or you can import the updated model.

Q) I have an armour model in 2.66, is there no way of getting it into 2.62?
A) Don't worry, it's relatively simple!

1. In 2.66 open the project that contains your armour (or other item)
2. Export the models as an interchangeable format (for example .obj or .3ds)
3. Go back to 2.62 and import the file(s) you just created.
4. Get busy with your adjustments.

NOTE: You could actually do the majority of your work in the most up-to-date versions of blender with this in mind. Also see next question.

Q) Why not just save the blend as a legacy? (from VectorPlexus)
A) Quote from blender dev's:

• "The new mesh format means that meshes saved in Blender 2.63 .blend files will be incomplete when loaded in older Blender versions (usually missing faces). When saving files, there is now a "Legacy Mesh Format" option to save Meshes compatible with older versions of Blender.

However note that in general opening and saving files in an older Blender will lead to loss of data from any new features, so even without BMesh it is strongly recommended to avoid this."

Relying on the legacy save functionality can easily leave you in awkward / annoying situations which can halt your progress while you try to resolve the problem.

Feedback and Questions Welcome!

I hope this article will prove to be of some use, remember it is only intended for people who already have working knowledge of the software mentioned, to provide a simple workflow guide and answer common questions. I expect it to evolve from both my own experience and input from the community, and as such it could be considered a WIP.

Have experience you feel could be added? please don't hesitate to add your 2 cents, and if relevant I will include your notes of wisdom.

Got more questions about working between blender versions? I'll do my best to add a relevant Q&A block.

Both positive and negative critique is welcome. If you feel I need to be clearer about anything, feel free to say so. If your points make good sense I will endeavour to make amendments.

Finally, if you for some reason feel those fires of hate raging in your belly, for whatever reason, expressing them here will not be tolerated. If you really HAVE to burn something, take a can of deodorant, a lighter, and practice on your crotch.

Edited March 18, 2013 by iClustaFlux

[Elleh]

Oh. Oh my gawd. Thank you for this. I learned modeling on 2.6, so it was seriously discouraging trying to work with things in 2.49 or Max. I have a couple of armors in the works, and this will make my life sooooo much easier. Usually I have to jump around between Blender and Max, and that transition is more than a little jarring. And sadly, Max gives me crazy graphical issues. (That I highly suspect are being exacerbated by a potentially faulty video card.)

 

 

Anyway. I'll be trying this out for sure, and let you know if I have any questions or concerns. :)

 

[VectorPlexus]

Well.. although I'm still stuck in 2.63 (havent bothered updating further), I just save the blend as legacy, no need to export to any other formats that may loose your precious weight paint xP

 

You should try that.

[iClustaFlux]

Well.. although I'm still stuck in 2.63 (havent bothered updating further), I just save the blend as legacy, no need to export to any other formats that may loose your precious weight paint xP

 

You should try that.

You do make a valid point, and iIdid consider including that information - however i'm trying to keep workflow tips as bullet-proof as possible.

 

A quote from the blender dev team themselves:

The new mesh format means that meshes saved in Blender 2.63 .blend files will be incomplete when loaded in older Blender versions (usually missing faces). When saving files, there is now a "Legacy Mesh Format" option to save Meshes compatible with older versions of Blender.

However note that in general opening and saving files in an older Blender will lead to loss of data from any new features, so even without BMesh it is strongly recommended to avoid this.

[VectorPlexus]

been using that for quite a few months now, and never noticed any problem, so you are quite right, some information will be lost, buts its like saving for an older version in any program, 3DS Max, Photoshop, whatever. So since what I think its lost is mostly features not available to 2.49, and since the nif exporter is only able to work with features present in 2.49, I think its safe to assume, there's no problem with that =)

 

The only reason I havent upgraded blender yet, its because I heard there where some issues with weight paint or something in 2.64 or 2.65. Probably will try 2.66 when I finish my current project =)

 

Anyway, its very cool, that you took your time to get ppl to now this workflow, since 2.49 UI is very alien and I'm sure lots of ppl will appreciate this.

 

Cheers!

[RadoGamer]

Excellent, I'm downloading 2.62 right now and installing it. 2.49 seems so cumbersome, after using 2.68. Your tutorial has been added to my growing list of information. Thank you!

[TheObstinateNoviceSmith]

[*needs a link]

 

I definitely appreciate the effort that was put here and the information you did post, but I really wish the "[*needs a link]" spots actually had links to how to do those described steps.

Edited October 6, 2013 by TheObstinateNoviceSmith

[11meister]

[*needs a link]

 

I definitely appreciate the effort that was put here and the information you did post, but I really wish the "[*needs a link]" spots actually had links to how to do those described steps.

 

As do I.

 

I don't have a clue how to 'fix vertex groups'.

[xander2077]

this is eactly the problem i am facing with 2.74, because sometimes it works to save a blend file as legacy and sometimes it doesn't. so even with the 2.6 compatible nifscripts, there are so many problems created by nifscripts in general, it often leaves me scratching my head to find a solution. so all the work i do in 2.7 can be for nothing if i dont pay attention to the settings i use on saving. a good rule of thumb is to make sure everything is converted to tris before saving as legacy. but that still does not always work. messing around with different save settings using "save as" can work, but you lose animations. saving as an obj can also have issues. because nifscripts imports nifs in a weird way, as in breaking the mesh into groups based on their material ( and for some odd reason they felt the need to make all the parts have the same material with different names) you get several meshes instead of one that is a body rigged to the bones. this can create texture problems later, and make it difficult to fix vertex groups. if you are forced to try and import an obj to a nif to replace a part, then normals can act stupid as well, i had one head that would not behave, and maybe one or two corners were flipped the opposite way from the other, so trying to fix normals by recalculating did not work. often it left me with one section blacked out and the rest like it was supposed to be. so obj import is not always a good solution. i found the only real way to utilize the advantages of newer blender and still be able to finish the model for a nif, is to try and find out how to be able to do most of the work in 2.7 with its expanded functions, and then attempt to save it so 2.49 can open it. it does not matter to me if the animation is lost because i can always import the nif again on top of the blend file and then rig the new mesh to the old bones. i think i was able to save the mesh in the newer version of blender as a nif and open it as well in 2.49 but that is not always going to work either.

 

the nifscripts i have in 2.7 is a dev version that is not really that good. it claims to be morrowind and skyrim compatible, and oblivion is broken, but importing a nif there is terrible. it spreads the parts all over the scene and creates a mess. and even with the nif imported with the bind mesh, bind skeleton, import as one mesh, etc etc, it makes a mess. they sure do need to hurry up and get nifscripts compatible and fully functioning for nifs in the newer versions of blender, because workflow is a headache.

 

 

[*needs a link]

 

I definitely appreciate the effort that was put here and the information you did post, but I really wish the "[*needs a link]" spots actually had links to how to do those described steps.

 

As do I.

 

I don't have a clue how to 'fix vertex groups'.

 

 

to fix vertex groups you almost have to have your new mesh and the old one side by side or in different layers in blender, then basically mimic the layout of the vertex groups, so if a leg is in vertex group "Bip01 left thigh", then the new leg part would aslo have to be assigned to that vertex group to function as the old one did. but there is more to it than just fixing the groups, the centers have to be adjusted and the whole group of objects should be in one mesh (so when you select them in object mode they are together, or when you switch to edit from object mode they can all be edited there together) but this can also create problems with weight painting, and blender will cry if nifscripts says the weight painting is not as expected. it is very frustrating that nifscripts did not allow for importing a nif as one mesh instead of separating them all into groups.

[iClustaFlux]

Blimey, I'd forgotten about this thread. Got pulled away from my modding endeavors not long after writing... I'll have to have a poke around again and see whats new.