170 replies to this topic

[showler]

In response to post #91947883. #91948568, #91948623, #91948758, #91949048, #91949223, #91949548, #91949748 are all replies on the same post.

Spoiler

StopGap11 wrote: So how soon is this happening and does that mean that we will now be unable to use mods with the games we paid money for unless we now pony up more money for a service we never asked for. To me this sounds like the bone headed creation club updates that Bethesada would put out that would make out current copy of SKSE useless and make all of out save games useless crap unless we figured out how to undo the "improvements" Bethesda forced down our throats. Of course, if my interpretation is wrong here, I'll be the first, and the happiest to admit it. Of course, if I am right in my interpretation ( really hope that I am not) I'm not blaming anyone at Nexus for this, they didn't have anything to do with this, they're just the messengers here.

irinotecan wrote: This only applies to people who purchase the games in the Xbox/Windows store ("Game Pass").  If you bought the game(s) through Steam, GOG, or physical disc, this does not apply to you, nothing has changed.

Also, you can continue to purchase these games through Steam et al., and avoid the modding headaches associated with an Xbox/Windows store purchase.

Pickysaurus wrote: I'm not really sure what you're upset about here? The games are already out on Game Pass and it does not have any kind of impact on Steam/GOG installs. It's just another option for people who want to play these games. If you're worried about game updates causing problems in your setup there are plenty of guides/tools around to prevent that or back up your current version. 

gyrofalcon wrote: I am confused as well. This "change" from Microsoft, does it force all current owner of Skyrim SE, to also have the game on GamePass?
Or can current version of Skyrim SE, be modded and played the old fashion way, that we do now?
If all futured copies sold, only are available with MS GamePass, (no new sales on Steam, etc) it will be a shot in front of the baug to the community, but I do belive old-fashioned Skyrim (and Oldrim) will survive.
Edit: Answered by others in thread. "My" Skyrim will not change. :) So moral is; Stay away from MS GamePass.

Fyrcynn wrote: Might be a naive question, but does this even impact that many people? I'd think Steam is by far the larger platform with Microsoft's barely being used. Anyone who'd experience the joys Windows Live would stay away from them as a rule.

Saggaris wrote: Well StopGap, I felt a bit like a doom monger myself when I jumped miles ahead with some 'what Ifffff's'

What if Microsoft only allow the future of Bethesda games on Game Pass?
Then..
What if Microsoft close the holes and disallow modding/manipulation of their content?
Then...
What if Microsoft then provide a range of customisable features... for a price?

Oh hell, I'm glad I'm old and senile so's not to have to suffer 'naked' games for too long.

Blackread wrote: Judging by the number of gamepass related questions on r/skyrimmods recently, I'd say this does affect a fair number of people. Obviously the majority of modders will be on Steam still.

StopGap11 wrote: Cool! As I said earlier, I am most happy to have my initial interpretation to be proven wrong. Honestly, I'm totally unfamiliar with console games or the mechanics of modding them on console; I've used PC based games mods forever, so me it was an entirely new area for me. I have learned that if you don't know it's best to admit it and ask for some help. So thank you all for putting my mind at rest, it's most appreciated. :)

Xbox was the console that actually gave people the ability to install half-decent mods.  It seems unlikely they will just up and kill modding on PC after working to implement it on the console.  Crying "Doomsday" is incredibly premature.

[zzjay]

Getting Bethesda's game on game pass is your own choice...
The same as it was getting Oblivion or Fallout3\New Vegas on console. Tha meant no mods. Not because they were mean or anythign... It just dind't work.
As long as game pass is an option and not the only way there'll be no problem. you'll buy your games normally like any other person did before game pass was a thing. It's one more option for the casual players.
Don't like that don't buy that.

The moment Bethesda or Microsoft pulls the plug on mods, they'll lose an incredible amount of money, because theoir base games are actually full of pretty serious bugs.

Edited by zzjay, 16 March 2021 - 05:58 pm.

[thetag]

"Mods that offer replacements to files from the vanilla game such as video replacers may also be unsupported."

Actually, remember that old setting?
[Archive]
bInvalidateOlderFiles=1

it seems to be necessary in the Game Pass version, loose files should work just fine.

[N7R]

In response to post #91951913.

Spoiler

zzjay wrote: Getting Bethesda's game on game pass is your own choice...
The same as it was getting Oblivion or Fallout3\New Vegas on console. Tha meant no mods. Not because they were mean or anythign... It just dind't work.
As long as game pass is an option and not the only way there'll be no problem. you'll buy your games normally like any other person did before game pass was a thing. It's one more option for the casual players.
Don't like that don't buy that.

The moment Bethesda or Microsoft pulls the plug on mods, they'll lose an incredible amount of money, because theoir base games are actually full of pretty serious bugs.

Exactly. I just hope they never implement this stuff to the full games we can buy (if they will even allow us to do that in the future). I don't want to live in a world where future Fallout, Starfield, and Elder Scrolls have limited exe's on purpose becasue they were too lazy to make an unlocked version compared to the gamepass one. I'd hope the community backlash would be big enough it would force MS and bethesda to stop doing it if it ever were to occur.

Edited by N7R, 16 March 2021 - 06:15 pm.

[phatbassanchor]

If this is the future, going back to game rental like renting VHS Tapes and DVD's and those filthy arcade tokens we railed against and finally got rid of so many decades ago, then I cannot participate.  These subscription services, microtransactions and other forms of cash grabbing greed are just what I feared Microsoft would do.  If these corporate clones have their way we will all be on a pay as you go basis for all gameplay within the next decade or two.  I won't stand for it!  I can and will find something else to do!
I buy my games.  I purchase the license to play a game as much as I want, however and whenever I see fit to play it.  I do not rent!  I do not subscribe to these services or the philosophy of greed that governs them.  
Sony already has my grandson addicted to their pay as you go service for his PS4, now PS5.  Every dollar he gets goes to those subscription cards.  That's what these corporations want, addicts paying them at every turn for every play.  I will not participate!
I want all my games on my PC.  I want my mods.  I want my script extenders to work full time.  I will have these things or I can and will take my ball and go home!  I'll go test games for a hungry up and coming game developer before I ever give in to the tyranny of greed that has attempted to insert itself so fiercely into the gaming marketplace.  We need to make our voices heard!  No more virtual arcade tokens!  Stop the greed!  Say NO to subscriptions and microtransactions!  No more pay as you go gaming!
Adventure on friends, Phat
PS:  Thanks for the tutorial.  I've had my Steam set up to avoid all CC updates since it last crashed my game in March of 2018.  If you play on PC, especially if you use script extenders, make sure to protect the many hours you have invested in creating your perfect load order and set your Steam to only update when launched through Steam and continue to use your manual script extender launch or the script extender launch in your mod manager.  Thanks for Vortex as well!   It's perfect for power users like me who are always changing mods.  I do testing and provide input for several notable authors, like Nicoroshi.  I'm always trying new mods.  Big thanks to all my favorite authors and conversion specialists who continually add new fun, joy and flexibility to my games

Edited by phatbassanchor, 16 March 2021 - 06:36 pm.

[Pickysaurus]

In response to post #91951938.

Spoiler

thetag wrote:

"Mods that offer replacements to files from the vanilla game such as video replacers may also be unsupported."

Actually, remember that old setting?
[Archive]
bInvalidateOlderFiles=1

it seems to be necessary in the Game Pass version, loose files should work just fine.

In the tests we ran, that INI setting made no difference. The file itself was protected by Windows security/integrity checks. 

Edit: To be clear, you can overwrite files inside BSA/BA2 files it's the loose files which were protected (so mainly the videos). 

Edited by Pickysaurus, 16 March 2021 - 07:21 pm.

[ff7legend]

No pun/disrespect intended towards console users but with Game Pass, one does not actually own the game in question.  If one fails to renew their yearly subscription to Game Pass, one will lose access to all those so-called "free games" they downloaded to their console's HDD/SSD.  The same applies to PS Plus users.  One is far better off buying the actual game vs obtaining it via Game Pass/PS Plus. 

I actually prefer physical media vs digital downloads/recordings anyway.  With a physical copy, I actually OWN the game/music/movie in question & can watch/play/listen to it as many times as I wish without having to pay those nagging subscription fees.  Not only that but the overall sound/video quality of physical media is vastly superior vs digital downloads/recordings anyway.  I still have my CDs/Blu-rays for this very reason & will not pay a subscription fee just to watch/play a game/movie or listen to my favorite music.  Total RIPOFF.

Another thing to be concerned with are all those DATA OVERAGE CHARGES one is likely to incur depending upon the ISP.  Streaming games/movies/videogames eats up A TON OF DATA.  This is especially true for 4K/8K video streaming.  Many ISPs here Stateside have monthly data caps & charge a King's ransom for going over one's monthly data allotment.  Others will simply throttle one's internet speeds to the point where streaming is impossible depending on the device used.  Either way, physical media is vastly superior & will save one a TON OF $$$$$$ in the long run...

Edited by ff7legend, 16 March 2021 - 07:36 pm.

[ff7legend]

In response to post #91953468.

Spoiler

phatbassanchor wrote: If this is the future, going back to game rental like renting VHS Tapes and DVD's and those filthy arcade tokens we railed against and finally got rid of so many decades ago, then I cannot participate.  These subscription services, microtransactions and other forms of cash grabbing greed are just what I feared Microsoft would do.  If these corporate clones have their way we will all be on a pay as you go basis for all gameplay within the next decade or two.  I won't stand for it!  I can and will find something else to do!
I buy my games.  I purchase the license to play a game as much as I want, however and whenever I see fit to play it.  I do not rent!  I do not subscribe to these services or the philosophy of greed that governs them.  
Sony already has my grandson addicted to their pay as you go service for his PS4, now PS5.  Every dollar he gets goes to those subscription cards.  That's what these corporations want, addicts paying them at every turn for every play.  I will not participate!
I want all my games on my PC.  I want my mods.  I want my script extenders to work full time.  I will have these things or I can and will take my ball and go home!  I'll go test games for a hungry up and coming game developer before I ever give in to the tyranny of greed that has attempted to insert itself so fiercely into the gaming marketplace.  We need to make our voices heard!  No more virtual arcade tokens!  Stop the greed!  Say NO to subscriptions and microtransactions!  No more pay as you go gaming!
Adventure on friends, Phat :)
PS:  Thanks for the tutorial.  I've had my Steam set up to avoid all CC updates since it last crashed my game in March of 2018.  If you play on PC, especially if you use script extenders, make sure to protect the many hours you have invested in creating your perfect load order and set your Steam to only update when launched through Steam and continue to use your manual script extender launch or the script extender launch in your mod manager.  Thanks for Vortex as well! :)  It's perfect for power users like me who are always changing mods.  I do testing and provide input for several notable authors, like Nicoroshi.  I'm always trying new mods.  Big thanks to all my favorite authors and conversion specialists who continually add new fun, joy and flexibility to my games :)

Don't forget all those DATA OVERAGE CHARGES one is likely to incur depending on one's ISP either...  In addition, you need to set your Steam to OFFLINE MODE in order to totally avoid those stealth updates.  If you don't, the game will auto-update itself after a system reboot since Steam will check for a client update if not set to Offline Mode which in turn prompts any games in your Steam Library to check for updates & apply said updates without your knowledge/permission...

Edited by ff7legend, 16 March 2021 - 07:33 pm.

[JimboUK]

I had the Outer Worlds on Game Pass and it was a pain in the rear end to try and mod, I gave up with it in the end and waited for the Steam version. 

[DaClockworkNinja]

In response to post #91953468. #91955698 is also a reply to the same post.

Spoiler

phatbassanchor wrote: If this is the future, going back to game rental like renting VHS Tapes and DVD's and those filthy arcade tokens we railed against and finally got rid of so many decades ago, then I cannot participate.  These subscription services, microtransactions and other forms of cash grabbing greed are just what I feared Microsoft would do.  If these corporate clones have their way we will all be on a pay as you go basis for all gameplay within the next decade or two.  I won't stand for it!  I can and will find something else to do!
I buy my games.  I purchase the license to play a game as much as I want, however and whenever I see fit to play it.  I do not rent!  I do not subscribe to these services or the philosophy of greed that governs them.  
Sony already has my grandson addicted to their pay as you go service for his PS4, now PS5.  Every dollar he gets goes to those subscription cards.  That's what these corporations want, addicts paying them at every turn for every play.  I will not participate!
I want all my games on my PC.  I want my mods.  I want my script extenders to work full time.  I will have these things or I can and will take my ball and go home!  I'll go test games for a hungry up and coming game developer before I ever give in to the tyranny of greed that has attempted to insert itself so fiercely into the gaming marketplace.  We need to make our voices heard!  No more virtual arcade tokens!  Stop the greed!  Say NO to subscriptions and microtransactions!  No more pay as you go gaming!
Adventure on friends, Phat :)
PS:  Thanks for the tutorial.  I've had my Steam set up to avoid all CC updates since it last crashed my game in March of 2018.  If you play on PC, especially if you use script extenders, make sure to protect the many hours you have invested in creating your perfect load order and set your Steam to only update when launched through Steam and continue to use your manual script extender launch or the script extender launch in your mod manager.  Thanks for Vortex as well! :)  It's perfect for power users like me who are always changing mods.  I do testing and provide input for several notable authors, like Nicoroshi.  I'm always trying new mods.  Big thanks to all my favorite authors and conversion specialists who continually add new fun, joy and flexibility to my games :)

ff7legend wrote: Don't forget all those DATA OVERAGE CHARGES one is likely to incur depending on one's ISP either...  In addition, you need to set your Steam to OFFLINE MODE in order to totally avoid those stealth updates.  If you don't, the game will auto-update itself after a system reboot since Steam will check for a client update if not set to Offline Mode which in turn prompts any games in your Steam Library to check for updates & apply said updates without your knowledge/permission...

You say this and you have a point, but I see it a little different. I do think its a cash grab and shouldn't be the norm but I'm grateful for this. The average game costs $60 to buy. I live in South Africa, that $60 to you ends up costing me R999 (my currency of Rand). The average salary here is R6000 to R10000 per month. 10% of that is tax, half of that is rent in a crappy place, then there's food etc. We cant afford R999 for a game. I see some Ubisoft crap is going for R1999 now. WTF!? Anyway, the Game Pass costs me R50 PM. I can play so many games for that price. It's affordable and I get to play some great games. So yes, its always nicer to buy and own your games, but for some this is the only way we can enjoy our hobby. I am one of the lucky ones who can afford such things, but I'm glad that it exists for some of my friends.