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Let's Leave the Past Where it Belongs


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#11
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Don't have the skills myself. I'm not demanding anyone implement anything, just expressing my disappointment that the community is so divided on this completely solvable problem. Open source is open source, anyone can add anything they want. All I've seen is modders blaming the Openmw team for not implementing LUA, for not making life easier for modders, they built an entirely new engine that is objectively superior in every way aside from a hacked on scripting implementation, what more do you want? Openmw recognizes multiple cpu cores, handles large memory addresses properly, supports modern shader techniques efficiently, is rock solid stable. I simply refuse to believe that LUA is so important, that great mods can't be created with other scripting tools, people just need to put the work in. It's not as simple as hacking on MWSE/Lua to Openmw, they are different engines, and if people want a better Morrowind they will have to get used to a new way of doing things.

 

 

"The community is so divided"

WTF are you talking about?

Some people like OpenMW, and some people like Classic.
Some people would switch to OpenMW if they weren't being so hardheaded against implementing and supporting OpenMW.

Until then, people will stick with what they like.
I'm sticking with Classic because I have to IMMEDIATELY give up a ton of MWSE/LUA mods that I don't want to play without because they're QoL mods.

You are creating a Division/Fight where there isn't one.

The most asked question on Morrowind MWSE/LUA Mod Pages is, "Is this compatible with OpenMW?" and the answer is No, because the team won't support it.

Oh Well. End of story, how the hell that means the community is divided is a complete and unnecessary over dramatization, and a complete fabrication of literally Nothing like that even happening in reality.

I don't see you putting any of this "EASY" work into figuring out how to do amazing stuff in OpenMW.
I see you just sitting back and criticizing everybody for being "lazy"
You say it's EASY to work with OpenMW, but when push comes to shove you say "I can't" and instead criticize the rest of the modding community for "Being Lazy", sounds like the only Divisiveness in the community is YOU by attacking other modders for not 'stepping up' and doing something for OpenMW, and just being (as you say), "Lazy"



#12
abot

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it runs on tablets and phones

Good for people who appreciate it. Personally I am not interested, I play games on a personal computer running Windows

it allows advanced scripting functionality without any janky script extenders

I think mwse-Lua is not that janky, and the developers reactivity to mod makers requests is super fast.

It runs faster

In my experience, it is not faster with a comparable MGE-XE/MWSE Lua setup

more stable than Oldwind

this is true

ever did and ever could. It will eventually support all of the Bethesda TES and Fallout games to date, bringing all of them into the 21st century

eh, I am not so optimistic and appreciate present and immediate future most

It's very disappointing to see modders still releasing mods for Oldwind requiring the use of MWSE. I understand it's difficult to let go of familiar mod tools, but have you looked at the openmw editor?

I did try OpenCS, more than once. Did you try it, compared it with the good old construction set or MWEdit or other more recent Bethesda Toolkits? Do you like the filters?

Odds are it is very familiar to anyone who has used some variant of the construction set/creation kit, just without a script extender

Nope, in my experience it is a completely different unfinished piece of s***

If openmw really can't do everything MWSE allows you to do, then talk to the dev team about it, or code it yourself and become a contributor, or we can pressure the creator of MWSE to shift focus over to Openmw.

What a grand and intoxicating innocence

Openmw is a gift to all of us, possibly the best thing to happen for our favorite games, but it needs our support to succeed. If we don't give it the support it deserves, we won't be able to have nice things in the future.

I'm having plenty of nice Lua things, thanks. I currently envy OpenMW scrollable world map (and that's it), but I have hope for it to be ported in not so far MWSE-Lua future

Honestly. I don't understand some of OpenMW users. Harassing mod makers to convert their Morrowind.exe mods to OpenMW is just going to piss them off if they are not interested, and harassing OpenMW developers to add premature features is going to have the same effect on the other side. Just be patient and give your support/appreciate what you have at present and like most, it's all gifted after all



#13
MikJames

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Don't have the skills myself. I'm not demanding anyone implement anything, just expressing my disappointment that the community is so divided on this completely solvable problem. Open source is open source, anyone can add anything they want. All I've seen is modders blaming the Openmw team for not implementing LUA, for not making life easier for modders, they built an entirely new engine that is objectively superior in every way aside from a hacked on scripting implementation, what more do you want? Openmw recognizes multiple cpu cores, handles large memory addresses properly, supports modern shader techniques efficiently, is rock solid stable. I simply refuse to believe that LUA is so important, that great mods can't be created with other scripting tools, people just need to put the work in. It's not as simple as hacking on MWSE/Lua to Openmw, they are different engines, and if people want a better Morrowind they will have to get used to a new way of doing things.

 
 
"The community is so divided"

WTF are you talking about?

Some people like OpenMW, and some people like Classic.
Some people would switch to OpenMW if they weren't being so hardheaded against implementing and supporting OpenMW.

Until then, people will stick with what they like.
I'm sticking with Classic because I have to IMMEDIATELY give up a ton of MWSE/LUA mods that I don't want to play without because they're QoL mods.

You are creating a Division/Fight where there isn't one.

The most asked question on Morrowind MWSE/LUA Mod Pages is, "Is this compatible with OpenMW?" and the answer is No, because the team won't support it.

Oh Well. End of story, how the hell that means the community is divided is a complete and unnecessary over dramatization, and a complete fabrication of literally Nothing like that even happening in reality.

I don't see you putting any of this "EASY" work into figuring out how to do amazing stuff in OpenMW.
I see you just sitting back and criticizing everybody for being "lazy"
You say it's EASY to work with OpenMW, but when push comes to shove you say "I can't" and instead criticize the rest of the modding community for "Being Lazy", sounds like the only Divisiveness in the community is YOU by attacking other modders for not 'stepping up' and doing something for OpenMW, and just being (as you say), "Lazy"

Never said openmw was easy, just that it is better. Not sure how you can play Oldwind with "a ton" of script heavy mods, given that the engine only support 1 cpu core, but I guess 60 fps isn't a necessity for everyone. I'll repeat what I said one more time so you hopefully understand IT'S NOT UP TO THE OPENMW TEAM TO IMPLEMENT ANYTHING OTHER THAN VANILLA MORROWIND, THE DOOR IS OPEN (OPEN SOURCE GET IT?) FOR THE MWSE TEAM TO EXTEND OPENMW'S SCRIPTING AS NECESSARY. Not only is the modding community refusing to put the work in, they are placing blame on the creators of openmw for not doing what was never on the project road map in the first place.

#14
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Never said openmw was easy, just that it is better. Not sure how you can play Oldwind with "a ton" of script heavy mods, given that the engine only support 1 cpu core, but I guess 60 fps isn't a necessity for everyone. I'll repeat what I said one more time so you hopefully understand IT'S NOT UP TO THE OPENMW TEAM TO IMPLEMENT ANYTHING OTHER THAN VANILLA MORROWIND, THE DOOR IS OPEN (OPEN SOURCE GET IT?) FOR THE MWSE TEAM TO EXTEND OPENMW'S SCRIPTING AS NECESSARY. Not only is the modding community refusing to put the work in, they are placing blame on the creators of openmw for not doing what was never on the project road map in the first place.

 

 

LOL, I have MGXE installed, I have the draw distance set so high I can see Vivec from the Seyda Neen Lighthouse.
I don't lose any FPS, so again, I think that you think that OpenMW is so far superior to Morrowind, that you actually believe it's impossible for Morrowind to run a bunch of "Script Heavy Mods", and go 60 FPS.

I don't even believe what you're saying anymore

THe OpenMW leader said they weren't going to allow MWSE into OpenMW, even if it's done from outside sources.

YOu keep blaming THIS modding community for not doing something YOU want.



#15
Dragon32

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If it was trivial to do then someone would have done it already.

 

Maybe it would've meant forking OpenMW if the main branch won't incorporate a script extender.

 

Regardless. It hasn't happened in either the main branch or a fork. Therefore we can conclude this is not a trivial task

 

We can reasonably conclude then that it requires some level of skill, knowledge and effort

 

If it's not an impossible task then we can conclude that the people who could do it have chosen not to for whatever reason.

 

Those reasons could be:

(a) The pool of people who could do this is vanishingly small, none of them even know about OpenMW or MWSE or Morrowind.

(b) Some of the people who could do this know about it but are doing their own thing

© Some of the people who could do this know about it, have the inclination but realise it's a huge piece of work and do not want to tackle it

(d) Some of the people who could do this know about it, have enough time and the inclination but choose not to out of sheer maliciousness.

 

OP has chosen (d) as the reason why this hasn't happened. I think there could be other reasons, but if you want to see petty vindictiveness as the explanation that's your perogative.



#16
MikJames

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Never said openmw was easy, just that it is better. Not sure how you can play Oldwind with "a ton" of script heavy mods, given that the engine only support 1 cpu core, but I guess 60 fps isn't a necessity for everyone. I'll repeat what I said one more time so you hopefully understand IT'S NOT UP TO THE OPENMW TEAM TO IMPLEMENT ANYTHING OTHER THAN VANILLA MORROWIND, THE DOOR IS OPEN (OPEN SOURCE GET IT?) FOR THE MWSE TEAM TO EXTEND OPENMW'S SCRIPTING AS NECESSARY. Not only is the modding community refusing to put the work in, they are placing blame on the creators of openmw for not doing what was never on the project road map in the first place.
 

 
LOL, I have MGXE installed, I have the draw distance set so high I can see Vivec from the Seyda Neen Lighthouse.
I don't lose any FPS, so again, I think that you think that OpenMW is so far superior to Morrowind, that you actually believe it's impossible for Morrowind to run a bunch of "Script Heavy Mods", and go 60 FPS.

I don't even believe what you're saying anymore

THe OpenMW leader said they weren't going to allow MWSE into OpenMW, even if it's done from outside sources.

YOu keep blaming THIS modding community for not doing something YOU want.

Pretty sure Morrowind only uses 1 cpu core by default, maybe mwse lua and/or mgexe is doing some trickery to offload scripting onto other cores, but I'm not aware of any such functionality. Draw distance is almost entirely gpu based and handled via mgexe. So long as you don't hit the memory limit, or have a lot of npcs on screen with active ai, you can draw as far as you want. Problems arise when you want to install texture/mesh improvements, or have many npcs on screen with active ai. Morrowind only uses 1 cpu core, and Morrowind is only capable of utilizing 4gb of ram, these are constants that have not been negated to my knowledge. The only way around the memory limit is via loading Morrowind onto a ram disk. Prove the above wrong or go away, I'm not interested in anecdotes.

#17
MikJames

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If it was trivial to do then someone would have done it already.
à
Maybe it would've meant forking OpenMW if the main branch won't incorporate a script extender.
à
Regardless. It hasn't happened in either the main branch or a fork. Therefore we can conclude this is not a trivial task
à
We can reasonably conclude then that it requires some level of skill, knowledge and effort
à
If it's not an impossible task then we can conclude that the people who could do it have chosen not to for whatever reason.
à
Those reasons could be:
(a) The pool of people who could do this is vanishingly small, none of them even know about OpenMW or MWSE or Morrowind.
(b) Some of the people who could do this know about it but are doing their own thing
© Some of the people who could do this know about it, have the inclination but realise it's a huge piece of work and do not want to tackle it
(d) Some of the people who could do this know about it, have enough time and the inclination but choose not to out of sheer maliciousness.
à
OP has chosen (d) as the reason why this hasn't happened. I think there could be other reasons, but if you want to see petty vindictiveness as the explanation that's your perogative.

I don't understand how someone could delude themselves into believing they have control over open source software. If the openmw creator has stated that somewhere then they are indeed very confused, and have confused me as well. Regardless, they don't actually have any real power to restrict others from forking the code.

#18
Kovax

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For a lot of long-term Morrowind players who have sizable mod lists, changing over to OpenMW involves a lot of work, and a lot of their existing mods will no longer function.  The fanbase is divided into those who are quite content with what's already been done and can still be done with the existing system, and those who want to throw a lot of it out the window and hope that the modders who are still active for this game and those who have long since moved on to other projects will all decide to redo their mods for the sake of the few new players using OpenMW.  A decade or so ago, this would very likely have been possible and desirable; now it's more of a pipe dream.

 

Quite simply, the active mod community for Morrowind is practically gone, compared to what it was a decade ago.  I dabbled with making a few mods (and a mod to a mod to extend it to TR) back when TR was only covering a single region, but the continuous changes to TR made each update basically obsolete by the time I was ready to release them, so it never got updated.  Until the OpenMW project is basically "done" and stable, a lot of modders won't touch it for that same reason.  The idea was great, and the implementation showed promise, but by this point in time, I think they already missed the boat.


Edited by Kovax, 27 July 2021 - 08:40 PM.





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