xaosbob

For the next person to get here from the future, montky's suggestions (under the Spoiler tag in his post) must either have been private mods or perhaps he was having a stroke. The lack of links really make me feel like he was trolling us, both in the thread and in the future. If so, well done, montky, well done. I spent nearly half an hour searching for these mods on every platform I know, including, y'know, THOSE sites. Nada. Now, future person, if I am just inept with searching (not an unreasonable possibility) and you actually find these, please, for the love of God, post links in this thread for the next wanderer that comes by. Thank you.

Congratulations to you, Tannin! Overall, my experience with MO made transitioning back to NMM last November challenging. I felt like I lost a lot of control in my installs, which I did, but NMM has been doing just fine, overall. I am excited to see how you implement ideas and functions from both into MONex(t). I honestly don't know much on the tech side of how the managers actually do what they do, but I do have some observations from the user end, things I like or don't, just so you have a little more grist for the mill. MO's install control is probably one of my favorite things about it. Being able to manually verify and select files is a powerful tool, and the reason I manually installed files for a long time. This, integrated with virtual installs, gives me real freedom to install and try things willy-nilly, without worrying about breaking my game. MO's virtual file system really cleans things up in the Data folder. This is important to me, because if I have a mod that I enjoy, except for that one texture (you know the one), I can find that texture, adjust it to suit my game, and know exactly where to put it back when I'm done. As an example. This ease of access (mods folder/mod name folder/mod's additions for the Data folder) is a big deal because I like to tweak, and because I like to have all a mod's assets in one place, discrete from the others. Actual post-install file control is a big deal, too. Finding and moving orphaned files (like a merge patch or new mod I just CKd up), the file explorer shell from virtually (heh) anywhere in MO, and the ability to adjust installs with drag and drop were features I grew surprisingly dependent upon. It's been a year now since I last used MO, so a number of its features slip my mind, but launching a plethora of tools from within MO (especially with the ability to configure how they launch) to then run them on the virtual installs, managing saves, switching between profiles painlessly, and even tracking downloaded mods until I decide to clear the list (or even clear individual entries) are all important to me, and sorely missed in NMM. On the other hand, NMM has run rock-solid for me with Fallout 4, without a single hiccup in the last year. Profiles are a good idea, but because of NMM's implementation, I don't really use them because of the time (and hassle, sorry NMM team!), but for basic load order stuff, it's solid as Gibraltar. I don't know if that is helpful feedback, now that I'm typing it out, but there it is. NMM seems to do better with running scripted installers, which is less important to me with more robust installation options, but it is nice for really complex mods and for modders who are more casual or simply newer to all of this. I'll stick by MONex as my name in the hat. Thanks for the update, Robin, and thank you for hiring Tannin! I think the Nexus mod scene just got an upgrade. ;)

In response to post #39992435. I second the idea of endorsing directly from NMM. I have always wanted that, because I want to support the authors whose work I enjoy, and am a complete asshat when it comes to remembering and tracking down the individual mod pages to do that. Honestly, if NMM had this feature, I would stop contemplating MO anymore. My FO4 mod install base is pretty big, and 1) lack of ~truly~ virtual folders (as my load order is always firmly resident in the Data folder) and 2) lack of file inspection and resident install-editing (rather than going through Windows Explorer) are making me strongly consider switching back to MO. The ability to endorse from within NMM would supersede those concerns, though.

I found your question while searching for a fix to this very thing. I am about 95% certain that the issue has to do occlusion and pre-culling. Fallout 4 does a rendering trick where it won't render some things that you wouldn't be able to see anyway in order to lessen the processing load for your graphics card. Older Beth games did a variation on this where, if you were in part of an interior space, where line-of-sight could actually be designed and controlled, parts of that space you cannot see are not rendered (it's a different method than FO4 pre-culling, though it is also used in FO4). I think the Lair isn't occluded/pre-culled correctly. The heart of the problem seems to be an area immediately below the arches you mentioned (I don't know if you have finished Automatron, so I won't spoil anything)--it is a large, seemingly empty space...that does not seem to keep the stuff on the side opposite your point of view from rendering. It's aggravating, because like you, I have not had this scale of lag anywhere else in the game, even on my below-spec PC. Downtown is the worst, but it is still usually playable. I was getting some trippy artefacting in the Lair, though, to the extent I thought my card might be going. lol I'm going to keep looking for a solution, perhaps a mod. If I have no luck, I may need to dust off the CK and see if there's anything I can do about it.

In response to post #39594035. #39602220 is also a reply to the same post. It isn't pandering, boomerizer. It is what mod users have ALWAYS had to do. It's simply taking responsibility for intentionally breaking your game. Every person who uses mods is responsible for what they are doing to their software. Yes, Beth needs to get their ducks in a row and make that easier--I said as much in my post, in case you missed it. They absolutely MUST do that. Even when they do, however, it is still going to be on the mod user to understand the inherent nature of modding--we are trying to make the game do stuff it was not designed to do. We are MODIFYING it, and taking our experience out of Beth's hands. That's the payoff, and the risk, and expecting console users to just blindly trust anyone, even Bethesda, especially Bethesda, to protect their systems when they are intentionally doing things that really can wreck it...THAT is pandering to console users. Worse, it implies that they are somehow incapable of the exact sort of fundamental investigation, research, and risk assessment that even casual PC modders have done for decades. Remember that the mod thieves and script kiddies are just a handful of assholes, and every community, even ours, has its share of assholes, but most of the console modding market is excited and eager to take part in something that has never before been in their reach. They are willing to learn, and quite able--I have a friend who uses Macs exclusively, but plays on an XBone. We are both so excited he can use mods without him violating whatever dark pact Apple users have to enter into, and he can actually enjoy them rather than just listen to me describe them to him. Let them skin their knees, I say. It's good for them, and more importantly, it is absolutely CRUCIAL. Don't ever forget that we had to do it, too. It's just been so long for so many of us that we forgot those early, painful lessons that taught us responsibility and accountability in this hobby and in this community. And seriously, yes, Bethesda really needs to get their act together. Every time they try a direct hand in the modding scene, it is a spectacular clusterf*#@ (and I don't care that comment tools will auto-censor that. We all know what I said), and they always exhibit a weird tone-deafness and utter bewilderment and genuine shock when things blow up in their faces. This isn't that hard. When Bethnet, I told my wife that I knew they hadn't contacted Dark0ne or anyone at the Nexus for advice, and I told her it was going to be a trainwreck. I just wish I had been wrong. Oh, well, here's hoping that Beth wakes up, pays attention, and fixes this mess FAST. And well. Actually, I prefer well over fast, but both are necessary. And now I'm babbling.

In response to post #39590680. #39591610, #39591915, #39592885 are all replies on the same post. Such drama. Console users are not imbeciles. Some mods are going to break saves. PC users deal with this every time we download a mod, too. It happens. Missing masters, incorrect file locations (due to author or installation method, I have dealt with both), hell, I couldn't play Fallout 4 for two days recently because of Beth's ninja-patch, so F4SE didn't work. We have learned how to work within the limitations of modifying the game well beyond its original design parameters--it's one of the fun parts of modding for many of us--and we are aware of the problems it can cause. Console users have not dealt with that on their machines yet, but this is not Armageddon we're talking about here. These are computers, running video games. There is a way to tell if a mod is stolen. Console users just need to be told how--it is called Google, and you type in the mod's title in that little search bar, and if you see it listed in the results on the Nexus or somewhere else, visit the page. If the author matches the Bethnet listing, or if the author has stated it is on Bethnet, you know it's legitimate. If not, just steer clear. If a console user is too lazy to do this (if they can access Bethnet on their XBone, they have internet, complete with browser, so there are literally NO EXCUSES on that, once they know), then they are choosing to be complicit with using potentially stolen mods. As Bethnet/CK gets fixed/improves, this step should be unnecessary, but until then, spread the word. Console users are not babies, despite the smack talk. They can manage simple internet searches. When you learn to ride a bike or climb a tree, do you get hurt? Usually. Some skinned knees, maybe a broken arm, but you learn, and part of it is learning how not to skin your knees and break your arms. That's where the console community is right now. "They don't know any better" is not an excuse, it's condescending to the point of insult. Console users are learning, and once the furor of this whole debacle dies down a bit, they will keep learning, and get better, and maybe, just maybe, become a great part of the established modding community. You deride pixelhate by saying they solve all their problems with fire, but you are the one pouring gasoline on this flame war just to watch the world burn. You also invoke terrorists, an odd metaphor (I HOPE it's a metaphor), so what's next, comparing someone to Hitler? Stop being a pedant and instead spread the word in the console community about their responsibility--yes, responsibility--in making sure the mods they download are legitimate. If you have no interest in doing that, you are simply here to whine and argue, which makes your comments less than useless, it makes them part of the problem. Don't be that guy.

Another confirmation that a UI mod was the culprit for me. I had Pleasant UI, and uninstalling that let me load my saves. Thank god. It's also worth mentioning that f4se has a 1.5-compatible version, and Place Everywhere (among others, probably) is updated to use the new f4se.

In response to post #36928540. 1.5 hasn't dropped yet, so the patch is not the culprit. Also, what an odd creature. Here I am, replying to your post, yet under "posts" and "kudos" above, there is nothing, not even zeroes. Peculiar. Anyway, whatever has gone wrong for you, it isn't this. I can't say I'm certain exactly what you did or why, but I think the simplest notion is to start by verifying your game files through Steam, and then try setting up your load order again.

In response to post #36170555. #36171990 is also a reply to the same post. This is important to pay attention to, I think. Over the last year, their Zenimax branch has had a similar problem with dev communication, which has some in the ESO community absolutely up in arms. I'm not an alarmist, but this is worth watching. Also, for the record, I agree that the save restrictions on the beta are stupid. I get that someone thought it was a good idea for reasons, but not for any reasons that help a beta test.

In response to post #36127135. #36127445, #36127625, #36127845, #36128375, #36128665, #36130230, #36130760, #36135625, #36137125, #36138065, #36139095 are all replies on the same post. Imagine cooking. You are testing a recipe for baked mashed potatoes, and you want all your far-flung internet friends to test it with you and let you know how it tastes. Let's pretend the revolutionary change you making to the potatoes is adding sour cream, chives, and a bit of garlic because for this example, nobody has done it with this specific amount of each. One friend adds chipotle powder and hot sauce to their recipe. One friend throws in pineapple, rice, and tea leaves. One friend adds ketchup, because we all have that friend. One friend cooks the potatoes on the stove top, and they add baking soda for "lift." One friend microwaves it. That friend also adds a lot of cilantro. One friend follows the directions exactly, but drizzles chocolate syrup over the top to eat it. One friend uses sweet potatoes and yogurt rather than potatoes and sour cream. The point of this was to test if the potatoes turn out the same way, and how everyone likes how they taste with this specific recipe. This is a lousy group of friends, because not one of them tested the recipe properly, so not one of them can give you the kind of feedback you needed. Might there be some interesting ideas? Yes (I have actually done the sweet potatoes and yogurt, and it's pretty good. Though use tarragon and allspice instead of chives), but that isn't what you were looking for. You wanted data about how they liked that SPECIFIC recipe...and they used everything but. I'd get new friends.

Here's the story. Fallout, like any other game of this sort of mechanical complexity, tracks thousands of shifting variables, from a twitch on your mouse changing what is on-screen to NPC detection and combat AI to the unending changes wrought simply by playing the game--the precise location of every moved, placed, or destroyed item or actor, quest stages and dialog threading, all the sounds and music, NPC interactions not involving the player, and on and on. This game is being played on tens of thousands (maybe hundreds of thousands) of differing computer builds. It would not be far from true to claim that nearly every computer running this (not the consoles, plainly) has a different architecture, from gaming monsters first powered up on November 11 to aging workhorses that are technically below the minimum specs and running it just fine (like mine). So OF COURSE they are disabling mods and the console. The survival patch is a BETA, not a release. It is opt-in for TESTING because it is not ready for full release. Meaning that, if you want to play with mods and console access, you absolutely can--simply do not opt in to the beta. If you are not beta testing the patch, you do not get to squeak about being denied something that is rightfully yours by virtue of owning the game--it is not yours yet, because it HASN'T BEEN RELEASED. When it is, you will get it. Simple as that. They would not be able to get any meaningful feedback if, in addition to the game's internal complexity, compounded by a functionally-limitless variety of platforms upon which it operates, their testers were also using mods from a staggering library of homebrewed, technically hacked (beautifully, in many cases) modifications that were not developed on software that Beth developed and is familiar with. They want to know how the changes affect the game itself, not all the myriad things we modders and mod-users have done to it. Mods make it impossible to tell if something is working as intended, because it adds uncountably more variables to the mix. And finally, YES the console is disabled, because they don't want us to fix the problems we encounter--they WANT US TO TELL THEM ABOUT THE PROBLEMS WE ENCOUNTER so they can fix them! If we just fix it ourselves with a few keystrokes, we likely won't tell them about the problem, bug, or break. If we don't tell them, we are FAILING AT BETA TESTING, and we have no room to complain if they do not fix that thing we experienced but didn't tell them about. Locking out the console is simply a way to encourage diligent reporting. BETA TEST. If you want to be a grown-up and help Bethesda do this damned update right, then be a tester and understand that it has to be done in a certain way so you can give them meaningful data. If you do not want to do that, if you just want to play, then don't choose to test systems you have no intentions of testing. When they release it, you can play it to your heart's content then, and make your summary judgments, confident and secure in the knowledge that you know so much better how things should have been done. Oh wait. That's the point of f**king testing, innit?

This may be a silly question, but might it have something to do with perks? I don't have the max perks for Hacking or Science! (for instance), so maybe the additional functionality is unlocked in the terminals when you do? I imagine you already checked that, but figured I'd suggest it in case you hadn't. :)

Thank you for the heads-up, Dark0ne! Must be the holidays, eh? :)

Just going to toss this out as a suggestion and alternative. Try using Mod Organizer. Gopher has great tutorial videos about getting it up and running--it is different from installing NMM or FOMM, but no harder, and the end result is a clean Data folder where mods have not written and overwritten themselves and each other. It makes experimenting with even alpha/buggy/unfamiliar/unsupported/gonzo mods safe for your game install. It also makes it so much easier to track down and fix problems like yours. It isn't the only solution, certainly, and it won't solve all your problems, but coming back after a hiatus myself recently, MO reduced my dependence on aspirin when sorting these things out. ;) Oh, one more suggestion--make sure you verify the vanilla game files through Steam. Gopher's tutorials explain how to do that, too. I have had some weird things occur because my vanilla files were fubar, and this DM voice issue sounds like that sort of problem. Possibly. In any case, good luck!

This is an interesting request. Not a bad request, but interesting. If what you need is better framerate and smoother play, then there are a number of things you can do with what exists right now. First and most importantly, you need to check the Tweak Guide for Fallout: New Vegas. The reason you start there is that the guide covers in-game controls and .ini settings, all without using mods at all. Each variable is explained in detail, to let you know what it does and how much impact it has on framerate and CPU usage. It's a long read, but if you're serious about this, you will probably enjoy learning these "behind the curtain" settings. I know you don't want to have to use "those mods that glitch out the game [performance mods]," but the fact is those are the second place to go. I have used these myself, on multiple computers of different architecture and power, and I have never had an issue with any of them. I also made damned sure I followed the instructions carefully, and when I could, I found tutorials (usually by Gopher) to make sure I understood what I was doing. The most important is 4GB Fallout: New Vegas Updated. This allows the game to recognize that you have more than 2GB of memory (if indeed you do...if you run Windows XP or newer, you probably do). Most of the time, when you have lag or stutter, it's because your computer is running out of memory to juggle everything happening in the game all at once. This alone will probably make the single greatest difference for your game. Next, New Vegas Stutter Remover. I automatically install this alongside of 4GB. Does what it says on the box, by (if I understand/remember correctly) flushing memory every so often so there is always plenty of elbow room for more data. There are other suggestions. Use Mod Organizer rather than NMM, because it doesn't hose up your Data folder. Set graphic settings in-game to Small texture sizes. Make sure you check and know (and adjust, where needed) the settings for your graphics card. If you really want what you say you want, you won't choke on the thought of doing these simple things, and being mindful about it will be well worth it. Then again, if all you want is cel-shading or cartoony graphics...well, that's a horse of a different color. ;)