Netrve

Nice to hear, I hope the best for all of the NMM Team and their newcomer Tannin ;) One thing for Dark0ne though, more related to articles in general: Your articles could really improve if you would use some headlines in between the walls of text. If the first third of the article is "just" the preamble, people will tend to skip parts or stop reading. Headlines allow separating parts of the text and direct people. It also improves readability, which is important in longer articles. (In this article having a section called "Future" would make it easy for people to see what's going to happen with NMM/MO, which is arguably the most important part). Hope this helps! :)

Sorry, but do you ignore the reasoning completely? It doesn't take much to understand that an Opt-In system would NOT work. Imagine PCPartPicker where the companies have to Opt-In. The system would most likely fail completely, since why should they bother to opt in? The same goes for Mod Picker. Mod Picker relies on providing users with possibly all information they are looking for. I'm not even sure what rights you are talking about. Everyone is free to spread information (this includes information about your mods as well) as long as it's not defamation and the Mod Picker team has often enough said that they try their best to make sure that there are no such submissions happening. It's enough. I didn't want to point at someone directly, but you give me no other option to. You have been unreasonable unfair to the Mod Picker team. I'm not part of the Mod Picker team, but I have been following their progress since it was just an idea. I know the people behind it and they are anything but the kind of people who don't listen to arguments. Sometimes they might fail at properly understanding others, but that happens to all of us. Out of all the people discussing this issue, you were the one with the least respect for the arguments made by others. You completely show a disregard for the reasoning given to you and even though things have been explained over and over again, you still persist on not reevaluating your position. Why did you even join this discussion in the first place, if you don't care about the other side at all? By this point, there is no reason for the other side to even care about you anymore. You show no care for the others, so why should they care about you? Everyone's arguments and opinions hold the same value, but if you are dismissive you disqualify yourself from said discussion. You are the one choosing to put their own ego before everyone else. You ignore everyone else's arguments for the sake of your emotions.

Thank you for your answer, I will go through some of your concerns. You made some valid points I want to address. The work is done by the community, this includes users, powerusers, and modders alike. There is an utility on its way made by Mator (the guy behind Mator Smash and Merge Plugins) which will pull the technical data from the ESP like xEdit. This should make sure that the information posted has a certain degree of validity. It will still require some oversight and staff-work to make sure that quality is assured, but as far as I heard they are aware of the issue of wrong submissions and have plans on how to deal with those. Mod Picker is for people who want a quick way to build bigger load orders, even big mods can have conflicts with some smaller ones which are not directly obvious. It still won't be click to play, maybe in conjunction with Nexusmods' NMM profiles? Not sure, but I don't think it will cause people to completely ignore the technical site of modding. They will still have to do conflict resolution on their own. Also People who want to learn modding will do so, sometimes modding is born out of necessity (unofficial patches for example), the desire to improve the game or to do it better than another mod. I understand what you mean, but I'm not sure if it will turn out as bad as you anticipate, but it's a valid concern and it's hard to really make a definitive statement about it. That would require us to be able to see into the future I had this concern at first too, even when Mod Picker was just an idea. But the more I thought about it, the less of an issue I saw. Also maybe a lot more people will be interested in modding as they would have the possibility get into modding easier? This goes to anyone I address in my posts: I hope I didn't cause any offense to any of you. If some of my words come off as too harsh, I want to excuse myself for that. A good discussion isn't driven by insults or a harsh tone, but sometimes I might not be able to see that myself. So again, sorry if I have been too harsh.

How you determine the "average user"? The Subreddit has a lot of people having problem with things we take for granted. Also: "However the average user also does not appreciate the time, knowledge & effort that goes into the making of mods - so a site such as "Mod Picker" with such uninformed reviewing could end up being damaging.", they don't have to appreciate it. It doesn't matter how much time, knowledge and effort you put into your mods, if the user dislikes it it's their valid opinion and they have the right to express it. You don't need to understand modding to make a subjective statement about something. If that would be a valid argument, then we would have almost no reviews at all. No one giving us our opinion about games, products or anything. Also only because it's free doesn't grant immunity. Nexusmods has been, in my opinion, overprotective of mod authors. Mod authors can force wrong tags, can simply lie and even delete any form of criticism or opinion about their mod. This is anything but good. Why is it such an immense problem for you people to deal with criticism? Yes, if someone insults you it's wrong. No one should be insulted, as simple as that. But criticism on its own actually can help mod authors and their mods.

"Oh what a silly little person." There are details in your posts which a flat out wrong - oh look, is that defamation? Well yes it is! So the mod authors complaining about possible dangers of user reviews are practicing what they are afraid of in a forum. Great. To explain this: there was a time in which ESPs were uploaded to the server to run an analysis which determined the structure to be able to give solid information about requirements and conflicts for example, but this is no longer the case. The analysis is now done locally and is basically like an automated xEdit.

Mod Picker is primarily a PCPartPicker equivalent for mods. The main purpose is to allow users a simple and fast way to pick mods and combine them, being supplied with information like potential conflicts and requirements. It's not a site with the primary function of reviewing mods or helping small mods to become more popular. The reviews are there to give the user a rough impression of a mod, helping them in making their decision when building their load order. I explained my point towards the Reviews in my post in this thread earlier: http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/4036140-mod-picker-the-fearsome-juggernaut/page-3&do=findComment&comment=36923915 Mod Picker's job isn't to help small mods either, it could, but that's not its goal and that's fine. No one is obligated to support newer mods or lesser known mods, it's something people choose to do. There is never a valid reason why someone should be forced to help a lesser known mod, even if it's a website aimed at helping people building their load order. Your mod is a product like everyone else's mod. To the user, all mods are the same before testing. It doesn't matter what personal value you associate with your mod or what kind of popularity your mod deserves in your opinion, for the one downloading the mod it doesn't matter. The end result (aka how the mod performs) is what matters. Second, only because you don't have a problem checking for conflicts on your own and choosing mods accordingly, doesn't mean everyone can do that. Some people have immense problems doing what "hardcore" modders can do. Your argument sounds elitist and disregards any other possible view here. Some modders go above and beyond when it comes to modding, but should they expect everyone else to do the same? To decompile, rewrite and compile the mods? To change entire file structures and esps? To redo models and textures? How about writing a few SKSE plugins as well or write your own HLSL shaders? I have done those things, but that's anything but a reason to expect others to do the same. Some people can't, don't have the time or don't want to. That's totally fine. There is nothing disrespectful or dismissive in a tool helping less capable users to assemble their load order. This comes off as highly egoistc, as sorry as I'm to say that. This reminds me of the people complaining about the rumor Dark Souls getting an easier difficulty. It doesn't affect you, it doesn't influence you. It's an option for the less capable players out there. There isn't really a reason why other people shouldn't enjoy a game in their own way. I would like to see a harder difficulty, but does an easier one hurt me? No, because it's optional. Nothing forces anyone to use it. Everyone should be able to play it their way, the same goes for mods. Everyone should be allowed and be able to make a load order without having to learn the depths of modding themselves. Oh dear, some hairy ape pulled up to the side of the road, wound down his window and shouted "you look kinda funny boy..". All this to the theme music of (dueling banjos) Deliverance. ... not everything revolves around reddit. For example, I only just started myself last year for the dungeon contest. It is NOT a positive place when all is said and done. Not everything revolves around Nexusmods either. The Subreddit and LL are both places equally valid as well. The site where the discussion is hold or was held doesn't really matter, what matters is what has been delivered in content. Those links were provided to show that the Mod Picker team hasn't been silent throughout the progress they made. They publicly announced where they are and were (and are) open to discussions. Just because it's Reddit doesn't influence the point made there. Saying it does is the cheapest attempt at invalidating an argument.

Before I start, a little disclaimer: while the points I make are valid, the form can tend to be a bit cynical. By any means, I don't intend to insult anyone. Okay, to get this straight: the biggest argument against Mod Picker is about a part of it, the Review system, which people fear will cause defamation of authors? Is this the problem? I don't even know where to start. Let's go about crushing little hopes and dreams first. It doesn't matter. No matter how much time, work, passion, love or else you spent to make your mod, it doesn't protect you and your mod from criticism. I work with a small team on an own game. We work together; we have a connected passion and a dream we share. I personally paid for the expensive software I own and the Middleware licenses we use. I spent hundreds of hours on learning various things from programming over 3D modeling/texturing to design. But still, we are open to criticism. Only because we sacrificed blood and sweat doesn't grant us immunity from someone saying "This is crap.". The same goes for mods and mod authors. Every users has the right to express his opinion about your mod, as long as they stay away from personal attacks. Latter should be covered by a moderation staff or similar. Mod authors have proven throughout the time that they often lack the capability to deal with criticism, even when it's expressed with the best intention. Now there is another proof you can add to that. Even the Opt-Out method is, in my opinion, giving too much power to the mod authors, as it's basically a way of escaping any confrontation. "Better close my eyes and ears and everything will be fine! People are wrong!". An Opt-In method makes even less sense for this kind of project. You want to allow the user to just pick what they want. By using an Opt-In method you limit this to the point where the entire system could collapse. Yes, initially Mod Picker will require oversight by the staff, but with a growing community a self-regulating mechanism will set in. Take Amazon or PCPartPicker for example. Good ones go up, bad ones down. If you fear the "stupidity of masses" then you can call back the aristocracy in the same breath. A Report button for wrong or misguiding Reviews would be a welcomed sight, but even then the Reviews should be first checked and then taken down. I'm not sure why so many modders have such enormous problems with criticism. When you release something, then expect getting bad things to hear as well. Of course those can be wrong, but take a step back and try to view it from another perspective. A lot of times creative people miss out on things, because they are so tied into their projects. Getting negative feedback can feel like a kick into the stomach, but it's sometimes more than just helpful to get.