lv1234

Sorry for the delayed response. It might be awhile before I can respond again. Just got sick from a vaccine test and recovering. Doesn't also help that I haven't progressed much into getting the fawkes area in the vanilla saves.

Ok all DLCs are loaded now, when it comes to loading my problematic saves and mods, what do you recommend in how that is to be done? Should I continue with the FOMM idea?

So I activated the anchorage dlc after closing the application but don't see it being fired in my game. Waited 30 seconds to a minute. I think you mentioned that it took a few minutes for the scripts to fire?

Hot editing use in this type of investigation is not advised. You Enable the DLCs as outlined and establish a good working Environment. Then go about the inspections. It's like this, Live activity stores information. On reload, that's a different situation. The engine can not inject new code while the plugin.txt file is loaded into ram. You Can't write to it. That said, there's no real way to know if the engine picks up code OR removes code while running hot. EDIT: i want you to do things a bit slower and be aware, you're going to experience something you never noticed before. When it takes place? your gonna sit there and wonder WTH ? and it's a good thing. What that will be is correct code running. Some times people catch it. They get all excited ! , take nothing for granted. I know it will happen. Don't Blink. Just stop and think about the process you are doing and write it down on paper for later. Think I'm crazy? No it happens. so don't get too excited. On each game load things change, the game will change...any doubts about that I can prove it to any one. So load each test cold. your testing a mod based on I hope is the Ideal alignment of the games DLC's and established Environment. when I connect to some others and prove things to them in real time..? they are dumb founded by the results. From that point on they listen. No more doubts. GOG installs are bad by default, same goes for Steam. Fomm on first use after an install IS that proof. I'm an idiot I thought you said alt tab out of the game but forgot that you stated to alt tab + f4 I suppose the TLDR about this is not to hot swap or change during gameplay?

Also how do I enable the dlc when alt tabbing out of fallout 3? I can't open up another instance.

So how about the arwen concern that I had? Will that interfere with anything/affect our troubleshooting process? And am I able to replicate our environment with MO or does it have to be an actual separate game install (which I can do) Ok, game install location....IF it is C:\Program Files..etc . x86 ? then that's the problem. Permission issues arrive from that. Windows will protect processes if so. That means the programs your running will not be allowed to alter them. Windows Environment's can effect game processes. Prevent virtual environments from doing things on purpose. x86 Proxies also will be effected. Current Windows 10 defender definitions have changed and are more sever...Software watching software is the worst kind. ----------------------- IF not installed there? then the 32bit proxie file used by Mo is being held hostage by the windows system. .IF Mo is the problem. As I laid out, a 100% game lay out other than C:\program Files .....install location will not exabit bugs. Every system will be different. IT's not much help but no two systems are alike. circumstance's change. you can forces a controlled environments ..YES So do so and follow the diagnostic's I laid out. Arewins mod as you seen in the picture I posted shows how the author made a mistake with his Environment layout. The updated file clearly shows his Environment was wrong. ------------------------------------ I'll try another way to explain what's going on. If you know how TTW scripting operates? you will know there is a very specific path one must adhere too in order to port a mod into ttw's lay out and most are unsuccessfully due to improper mod development of the targeted mod you intended to port. regardless, the TTW script is used to realign the code inside the results in order to operate correctly...Other wise it's just junk. ------------------------------ If you have no Idea how that works? then it's gonna be a hard road to teach you. Study in fo3edit the patch I made, Note how things appear to look weird. The reason is due to Bethesda's Production crew and time of DLC production, whom did the work and at what time in development. The Pitt came first, Then Anchorage. Then Broken steel etc ... the DLC's are tiny but are right protected so no body thinks about mods. Modders have built massively Embarrassingly better game incepts the Company could not afford to do in real time. FNV "New Vegas" contains parts of Fo3 in it's core. So fnv is both games. Carry over faults from fo3 into fnv 'Thus" is the history. Fo4 contains remnants. The story. Regardless the same mistakes are found. Witt that said, Modders build their mods from these games as they are released , including the bugs. That includes bad mesh files and bad textures, and bad animation files, bad shader packages too. -------------------------------- So..you are there trying to figure out why this one authors mod seems to effect weapon handling ? correct? Not limited to Fawkes but seems to propagate across all NPC's ? Duplicateing the bug in MO but not able to directly indicates windows is interfering with the processes. That's what I read from what you posted, I wrote this book--LOL in order to show you what's being looked at when a question is posed. Not always going to be accurate but pretty close to reality. ------------------------------------- IF you grasp the meanings you will find the point the effects take place and block it , Not remove, but block it. The authors structures are built once, deleting anything within those structures will break the processes. Telling the process to be Ignored prevents the process and prevents the breakage. Some times it's a script, some times it's a process from a mesh file. I have seen *.kf files break the game----------------- ---------- Bottom line, if the bug is there with MO / and not there Free Play? then the system OR MO's dependencies files are at fault. IF so? you can't judge the mod in any way. The test install that I did was on a separate drive not connected to the windows drive. I will let you know how that goes, this time I will just manually install arwen realism without MO on the test install and load up the "problematic save" Edit: take it back, I might actually just try it with FOMM just for testing purposes and see how it goes from there. I think its implied that the author doesn't want it manually installed

So how about the arwen concern that I had? Will that interfere with anything/affect our troubleshooting process? And am I able to replicate our environment with MO or does it have to be an actual separate game install (which I can do)

Ahh so it's a known issue then. Interesting, so arwen med-tec is the only plugin touching fawkes? Update: After removing arwen med-tec, it is still showing the same issue interestingly enough. Did a test copy install of the arwen realism mod and leaving out the med-tec option and loading up a test save and it is still doing the same thing interestingly enough. The mod's installer has plugins for other mods, in sections. I only did a quick check, I am not for sure if any of the other plugin's effect the creature "Fawkes". Fallout3.esmAnchorage.esmThePitt.esmBrokenSteel.esmPointLookout.esmZeta.esmArwen_Core.esmArwen_Realism_Core.espArwen_Med-Tec.espArwen_OneLife_Lite.espArwen_Full_GOTY_Patch.esp-------------------------------------------Those are what I tested only. the other choices rely on other mods which I have not installed.My only interest was arwins base mods.Now keep in mind, in order to verify true attributes, the tests are all done on new games.that is the reason I said you need an alt start mod in order to quick check the games funtions.you can not rip out the followers current code from a save that had the mod installed prior to that test.here is a test patch for fawkes:https://mega.nz/file/tCR3kI4T#xzAVDqQiPoA8_xGXPFbC9ctoiwdzLPVzuzwm5AT55egload that last and test. It should by reasoning override all above it.Also inspect the patch VIA fo3edit and view the all "referenced By tab.Al though you may see other references...those come in through scripts. That's why they are in this package.let me know what happens. So start a new vanilla test game install up until vault 101 exit. Then do the DLC enable one by one thing. and after that load the suspect mods and add your patch as the last load order? And also load up the "problem" saves too after that? Also arwen realism does require a new save from the entire beginning as stated in the mod, will that affect our troubleshooting?

Ahh so it's a known issue then. Interesting, so arwen med-tec is the only plugin touching fawkes? Update: After removing arwen med-tec, it is still showing the same issue interestingly enough. Did a test copy install of the arwen realism mod and leaving out the med-tec option and loading up a test save and it is still doing the same thing interestingly enough.

What kind of Hdd do you own? ssd? or sata? Where is the install location...The exact path? ----------------------------------------------------------------- arwen realism ​I can't diagnose that mod as it has prerequisites . The vanilla game with other mods that do not touch Vanilla assets? can be. ask the author of the mod. "arwen realism" I have installed the game and tested it on both an ssd and HDD. The HDD tested in question was a Western digital SATA 7200RPM HDD. The SSD tested was an M2 2280 Crucial SSD Yeah I've been asking around the arwen realism community to see if anyone has been able to replicate this issue. If there are people having this issue, it is likely something on the mod's end. If it is just me, then it is possible I installed it incorrectly. Years ago when the mod was released, I too ran into this issue, However, NOTE: this is NOT the only mod that exabits the bug. There are many mods that change things. When that sort of bug showed up later, It isolated the mods used. So it's not just that 1 mod. I always removed the game installation and changed the location of the games source installations.. Both Steam/ CD Rom / GOG sources. I have the hardware to test on, a lot of hardware. Sometimes the game install works well, smooth as silk, and sometimes it's pure Junk. These things show up I know somethings wrong. I stop and go back to the Origins of release dates of installing the game, tools used made at the time of release. --------- Fallout 3 by it's self on a bad install will exabit the bug. with no mods. that's how I know it is not always the mod. If that bug gets stuck in a saved game file? it will never go away from that point forward. So , in sorting out diagnostics, I use an alternate start shack mod to quicken diagnostics. It's Ultra fast to figure out what's wrong. ------------ You will recognize a Good install by the smoothness the game runs . The key items to keep a watch on is the plugin.txt file. If you use fomm? it marks the plugin.txt file in a different format than the game launcher.. The game launcher always scrambles the load order, that's given. Fomm was once relied on to use a online template, the server is now gone for it's template on github. It's not longer viable to get the correct fallout 3 load order for mods made . Loot scrambles the games mods when you have more than 40 mods installed. Then three's Mod organizer 1 and 2 that use a version of loot. The point is there is always going to be that load order to be required to be correct on a new game no matter what. It all depends on how you go about things. INI start up's game init files need to be exact. -------------- fo3 by it's self with no DLC use is bare minimum required to establish a good data base for diagnostics and 1 Mod at a time and testing times. If a smooth game runs with no mods really smooth and no errors? then you have a good data base to diagnose the mods. But ! you need to use the alternate start mod to verify things work right. Mods that interfere with fo3's Demo environments can not be involved. The Demo is the vault 101 beginning. So any mods that touch the beginning of the game, alter it directly other than the alt start mod you can't use. there's a lot of those types of mods. Fomm is still usable if you think outside of the box of automation. On launch of any manager, the plugin.txt file is edited by that program. They all write to it. Fomm, and game setup internally can be forked to line up internal scripting to the main game and DLC content scripting's using foom OR Mod Organizer's 1 or 2 versions. ------------------------- What do I mean by this ? When you load the game, the DLC content loads. Due to internal scripting errors made By Bethesda's authors, DLC 02 and DLC 01 are reversed internally. Alphabetically they respond to the windows environment's and ethos load wrong on games launcher. Fomm, and a few other managers. Fo3 edit will show you anchorage is DLC 02 and the Pitt is DLC 01 but the load order is shifted so anchorage always loads first. Anchorage is DLC 02 <----------- --------------- ingame on exit of Vault 101 you pass through the trigger and the DLC's load out of order, quests and stages load out of order. <-------------- to force them to load in the correct order you must enable the DLC's after exiting the vault 101 "ONE AT A TIME "..Thus enabling them to load into your saved game files data base in the Corrected "Load order Pattern." and not internally controlled "out of order structuring." This give you the ability to correctly diagnose the mods you are inspecting. The trigger of the loading of the DLC's is only in 1 spot. Vault 101 exit.. I'll try to make sense load fo3 hard save on extit of vault 101 , Atl F4 out of game. enable anchorage, go into game allow load step forward out into the trigger box anchorage loads, you wait for all the scripts to complete firing. some times it takes a ew minute's to pass, then hard save. and exit the game Now you enable the Pitt DLC. and go into the game. walk thru the trigger and allow IT to load and finish loading all of it's quests and messages. hard save and exit. ---- repeat and rinse, once that has bee accomplished and Zeta messages are all finished ? now you hard save that and copy it as a Known Good startup default vanilla game start for a normal game. If you go the ALT start rout? you still have to trigger the vault 101 exit to get the stages to register in the correct load order pattern. Not the internal content pattern. watch on load what DLC's load first on exit if you want to understand what's I am referring to with a normally installed GOTY game. ----------------- By modding logic's you think a new mod with quests load on a new game. That's to be understood. What every one misses is the GOTY Load outs are scrambled . Buy=t ! you see the load order is in the correct pattern, what you DON'T see is the internal load order as the DLC's or mods Load their contents and scripts. You must pay attention to on screen messages. -------------------- Now, this is a ton of insights I can provide you with . It's a lot to take in. So learn to set up a diagnostic Environment as I laid out here before passing judgments on mods and their operations. But reports are generated by this fashion Because people do not underrated what the underlying code is. you only ever see superficial results and never know what there, what's really going on or why. Kitty Black Thanks for the advice. Will remember it for future keeping. So far I'm assuming it has something to do with how I installed arwen or maybe it is a common problem, something I will investigate for the time being.

What kind of Hdd do you own? ssd? or sata? Where is the install location...The exact path? ----------------------------------------------------------------- arwen realism ​I can't diagnose that mod as it has prerequisites . The vanilla game with other mods that do not touch Vanilla assets? can be. ask the author of the mod. "arwen realism" I have installed the game and tested it on both an ssd and HDD. The HDD tested in question was a Western digital SATA 7200RPM HDD. The SSD tested was an M2 2280 Crucial SSD Yeah I've been asking around the arwen realism community to see if anyone has been able to replicate this issue. If there are people having this issue, it is likely something on the mod's end. If it is just me, then it is possible I installed it incorrectly.

Update, reinstalled game as a fresh vanilla file with no dlcs attached and did a hard save. Reattached copy of a test game file involving fawkes and testing with arwen realism (just that) on MO with and without dlc. Fawkes still does the samething.

Also I did a fresh MO profile with just vanilla plugins (with and without dlc), it seems that it is less problematic but Fawkes still uses his ranged weapon for people far away and uses his melee fists (when forcing him to melee) for close opponents (which is normal from what I have seen and makes sense). With the arwen realism mod added (which significantly changes alot of the vanilla aspects of the game including healing, damage, health, and rarity of items), fawkes is just using his ranged weapon at all times even for close opponents when I tell him to use melee. Is it wrong for me to point fingers at the arwen realism mod and perhaps discuss how I installed it?

It is not normal. Something went bad with the installation. See , that creature is a follower you can hire. If all other people / NPC's stop using weapons? the game is broken some how. Most of the time the culprit was AN INI alteration by UUF3P. On a raw Un-Altered FO# GOTY game with zero alteration's this problem never shows up.. you back up your saved game files folder and remove the INI files, then re-downloaded the game and start a fresh game just to re-establish the correct INI files and running ONly Fallout3.esm as a single plugin. NO DLC's on this procedure. hard save and close. Now re-establish the loadout VIA Vortex Older saved game file or remove the new saved game file and put back the older one's and verify all mods are where you were without the Famos patched item. I do repairs similar for a lot of people remotely if they can't figure out the mess. So you know, this is very common problem. FOSE Enabled mod's cause animations that USE FOSE instructions break the game. That gets stuck on the ini startup and you never know it's still there. IF all mods are reenabled and you start out thinking the problem will evaporate? it won't. Like your own story as you build the database / saved game file, you are building that profile in game. That code comes from all the edits. Removing the offending edits fixes the main functions but will not remove accomplishments kept in the saved game file so it follows you around. Like chasing Mice? Cat's toy with Mice before eating them. Sometimes not. I solve these Mysteries. So for the first paragraph, am I able to do that by just simple creating a vanilla profile in MO? And also what do you mean by Famos?

So after some research on the web and testing with a pure vanilla profile with only dlcs, all companions seem to refuse to use their melee weapons and only use it for a bit at most like seen in my experience. So I think this is very likely normal and will consider this one solved.