pgir001
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Posts posted by pgir001
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Yeah, that just... ugh. I don't like Ulfric. I don't like what he stands for, i don't like his tactics, and i don't like his voice. But that doesn't mean i will ever resort to that sort of idiocy to try and convince people that the Empire is in the right.
Sometimes i'm disheartened that my side of the argument seems to have the biggest idiots...
It's only my opinion. But the problem as I see it is that neither side is particularly good for Skyrim. Both sides offer a much longer CON list than a PRO list. To me, picking sides in the Civil War is like choosing how you want Skyrim to die. They both suck to me.
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So, you want the game to recognise the order in which you do things, all your accomplishments, and adjust its delivery of storylines to account for those? The inability to do that isn't rushed or sloppy, it's impossible. The sheer number of variables available means that adjusting storylines in that way would require Bethesda writing, minimum, 6 questlines (base-line, Main quest, 2 other guilds, 2 factions for Civil War) for each story. Far, FAR more if they account for minor quests and secondary stories.
NO ONE had done that. It's highly probable that no one CAN do that. You might as well be complaining that humans can't breathe under water.
I never said I wanted the game to recognize "all my accomplishments" But when I can pass by a city guard and they respond with dialog based on what I am currently doing, I think it's safe to say there are already systems in place within the game that can accomplish what I would be looking for.
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The problem with your idea that "assign mundane simple errands to The DB's Listener is he" is that, yes he would. He probably wouldn't even KNOW you are the DB's listener,
Fair enough
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I don't agree with this assessment.
It's not an assessment. It is a stated design element that has been explicitly voiced by the developers. You are only the Dragonborn if you WANT to be, and you express that want by doing the relevant quest.
There ARE some problems with the design, yes. Having to join the College of Winterhold just to speak to the Librarian was sloppy. But nothing assumes you go beyond that. Having to impress Brynjolf to get information doesn't instantly make you a Nightengale.
Your complaint is grounded in a stark misunderstanding of how the games stories are implemented, and the intent behind them. You might as well complain that Dark Souls' difficulty is a problem because it discourages casual players.
No, the design is incomplete. The intent is fine, the implementation is not. My issue is grounded in that the distinction between the stories is rushed, sloppy and obvious. I have made this complaint in the past. in my 1st play-though, I didn't do the Companions until last. If you have ever done that Story Ark late in the game, the sloppiness of writing becomes even more apparent. Long after saving the city from a Dragon attack, becoming Thane wearing "Late Game" gear having already captured a major dragon in Dragonsreach and flew off on its back (As if that doesn't gather attention) You sow up in Jorrvaskr and You hear Kodlak talk about seeking fame and Vilkas saying "I've never even heard of this outsider" OK, fine, they live under a rock and don't get out much. So then I have to hear Vilkas say his sword is worth more than I am. Then I hear Aela tell me I might actually be stronger than I look. To which I think, What about double enchanted legendary tempered dragonscale looks "weak"? Then Skjor says "You need to prove yourself whelp". Flying off on dragon back, marching into Sovngarde and defeating a god (2 if you count Tsun) alonside legendary Ancient Nord Heroes isn't enough for you is it?
This is a HUGE break in context. Now you want to tell me the developers say it's intended. Well, I say, doesn't matter, it's rushed and sloppy. It's poor writing at best. It's virtually impossible to not suspend the continuity of my character's development without making a conscious decision to acknowledge the disconnect not just once or twice, but with almost every single interaction. You are telling me it's so that I can play how I want. But I can't. Because what I want is continuity of character. I want to join the Companions as the Dragonborn. I want to tell Aela and Skjor that I don't need their beast blood since I've already exceeded "The heights of the Companions" and I don't want to taint my Dovah Sos with Hircine's blood. I am the Dragonborn.......sorta.
Anyone can crank out half finished work and say they meant to do that. It's still half finished work.
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Well, for one... You aren't necessarily the Dragonborn. You can be someone else if you want, just don't go to Whiterun. If you, as the Dragonborn, choose to engage in that storyline, it's on your head to figure out why.
The complaint shows a stark lack of understanding of how Bethesda designed TES. You aren't Geralt of Rivia during the Third Nilfgarde War. You don't have a set story, or set actions throughout the world. You are whoever you want to be, with a backdrop of the Stormcloak Civil War and the return of Alduin.
The world isn't a single, cohesive story of the Dragonborn. It's a collection of self contained stories with no relation to each other, happening simultaneously. The only instances where the Dragonborn is categorically involved is Alduin, and Miraak. If you choose to involve your Dragonborn in other actions, the how and why is on your head to explain.
In short... It's only a problem because you're looking at it the wrong way.
From above, you also said "The stories aren't all about the same person"
I don't agree with this assessment. You are the Dragonborn. Even if you do other stories 1st, you just haven't been revealed as such. But this is the only way it makes sense. Even then, ONLY if you got to Riften straight out of Helgen, and thus are still a nobody. Otherwise for each story you complete before the TG, you are going to Rften as someone important. So, OK, Fine, I load a mod that lets me play Skyrim as someone else and I'm not the Dragonborn. But unless I do the TG as my very 1st story, I am still The Harbinger for the Companions. Or maybe I am the Arch Mage from the College of Winterhold. Or maybe I am The Listener for the Dark Brotherhood. Sorry, but Brynjolf isn't going to assign mundane simple errands to The DB's Listener is he? I wouldn't. I also think The Listener might have some pull with Maven as well no? I believe Maul makes a reference to Maven using the DB when discussing what happens if you cross Maven. ( I could be wrong, but I know I remember some reference to Maven using the DB.)
But if you do choose the main quest, you get sent as the Dragonborn to some of these factions. You have to seek Brynolf AS the Dragonborn, you have to seek the College AS the Dragonborn. It's even worse then.
To do as you suggest, (Referencing your above quote) requires me to deliberately suspend all my previous experience with what the game has shown me up to this point and totally disregard it as irrelevant so that I am no longer the character the game has set me up to be.
In short.....It's only not a problem, because you are looking at it the wrong way.
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I guess you all missed my point but that is ok. My point is what a disappointment the "boss fight is" and how to get to it perhaps re-reading my first post. Of course lets not get carried away it is a game remember. That being said there are mods to get away from Nocturnal http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=107876561. So if you want to go the rout I was punk I think not..They were all played like a fiddle I now control the thieves guild Mercer is my punk who I can summon, and the Daedra still have no control over the dragonborn as it should be.
But lets remember it is just a game hmm:)
I got your point. But I think it goes way beyond just one piece of sewage wate like Mercer. Why would someone at the level of the Dragonborn in Skyrim even be approached by some "has-been" washed out sewer rats in the 1st place? (Assuming you aren't doing the TG before the Western Watchtower) You know, like why wouldn't Byrnjolf approach Gen. Tulius or Ulfric Stormcloak and ask them to steal a ring? And what's more, if you have played Empire and advanced the Civil War past Riften, Maven is the Jarl due in no small part to the Dragonborn . You literally put her where she is and yet...............
To me, the entire faction is out of place for the character we play. You don't send the Dragonborn on errands to muscle local shop owners and businessmen. I've actually been thinking about trying out
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The Empire has been crumbling for some time, and under the leadership of Emperor Mede that crumbling has been greatly accelerated. If there is to be a resurgence of human rule and prosperity, it won't be in Cyrodil. The Empire needs Skyrim to keep its head above water. Skyrim needs to leave the Empire to reach its true potential as unified and self-governing Nordic kindgom.
The problem with this is that the Stormcloaks were only fighting a portion of the Imperial Army. Not the full strength. As it was, without the aid of the LDB, they were stalemated. This means that unless The Nords receive continued support from the LDB going forward, the Thalmor would crush Skyrim. The Stormcloaks, in their own right, just aren't strong enough to fend off the AD. It's just like the Imperials say. AS much as The Empire needs Skyrim, Skyrim needs The Empire.
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I hated Delphine right from the words "Good, Then you'll have a chance to prove it to me."
"Excuse me what? Want me to prove it to you like I did to the Greybeards?"
And of course Bethesda forces you to subject yourself to her since until you do, they paused all random dragon attacks between Ustengrav and Kynesgrove.
And then the [CENSORED] goes and hangs out at the Bannered Mare until you meet her back in Riverwood and if you show up there, before going to Riverwood, (Is if you didn't have other things to do that don't revolve around her) she says in her snotty voice. "Not here, I told you to meet me in Riverwood"
Someone needs to make a mod that permanently adds a Brawl option to her dialog menus so every time she opens her mouth, you can punch her. Then after you are done beating the crap out of her,( she already has has the dialog for it ) she says " Your'e right, your'e right...I just..."
It could be called "Shut Up Delphine!"
No, I have as little to do with what she says as possible. Besides, Going forward, I think Parthurnaax will save a lot more lives from Dragons alive than dead, certainly more than those two has-beens ever could.
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If you're a Nord player, and one side has to win (after all you can choose to remain neutral), then the StormCloaks are the obvious choice for many reasons:
I get exactly how you feel.....Nord Dragonborn warrior stormcloak thing. I too play as though I was a Nord who wants to see Skyrim free.
It's just........Ulfric isn't the right guy for the job.
Perhaps you are right. Bethesda does do a decent job of giving both sides added depth, with nuanced views/statements that both add to and take away from their credibility.
I acknowledge Ulfric has some negative aspects to him, though I don't think he's an overt racist as many people claim he is. He is an opportunist and perhaps at times ruthless, but he is also competent and cunning. He is not the morally righteous leader that everyone yearns for, but then again, in Tamriel's long list of rulers who really is? Even Tiber Septim was suspected of foul play at certain points in his reign. For the average Nord, Ulfric, even with his faults, is a much better leader for Skyrim than is Emperor Mede. I have a 'Work with what you have' mentality...Ulfric isn't the perfect leader, but given the options available, he is the best one available to the people of Skyrim.
I mentioned earlier in this thread why I fight against Ulfric. It has nothing to do with racism. It's how he talks with Galmar after the victory speech in solitude. After hearing his little after-speech, I feel like the whole dam war was for his own personal ambition. Not the Nords or Skyrim. I left Solitude thinking.......WTF was that??????
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If you're a Nord player, and one side has to win (after all you can choose to remain neutral), then the StormCloaks are the obvious choice for many reasons:
I get exactly how you feel.....Nord Dragonborn warrior stormcloak thing. I too play as though I was a Nord who wants to see Skyrim free.
It's just........Ulfric isn't the right guy for the job.
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can the Thalmor still legally arrest you?
During your next session, or whenever you play next, look around for a party of 3 Thalmor escorting a prisoner. Confront them, they will tell you to walk away. If you try to speak to them again, they will ask if you are a Talos Worshiper. Your choices are 1. I believe in Talos, 2. I can worship whoever I like 3. Remain Silent. No matter what you chose they will attack you as a Talos Worshiper. So, to answer your question, No. They cannot legally arrest you. But they will illegally try to kill you.
I generally use these opportunities to gather Elven metals so I can make Elven arrows to have converted to Sunhallowed Arrows.
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Well, The Empire definately wanted first whack at Ulfric for his crimes. But, under the revised terms of the Concordant (because the Empire wasn't holding up their end) the Thalmor get first stab at even suspected Talos worshippers. Look at the missing son quest in Whiterun as an example. They take a rebel from the Imperials under suspicion of Talos Worship, and Tullius, when questioned about it, basically says that's how things work.
There's two factors in play on this issue. First is, who has the criminal in custody? A fugitive wanted for capital crimes in multiple jurisdictions, each carrying a death sentence is going to leave a number of disappointed jurisdictions. Because a convicted criminal can only be executed once. Everything after that is moot. [chuckle. Ulfric finally got his Moot!] Second is the severity of the various crimes. Murder trumps kidnapping which trumps Grand Theft, etc. The Empire wanted Ulfric for high treason, which among other things is a domestic crime. The Thalmor wanted Ulfric for apostasy and is a foreign claim. Stand in line foreigners!
Elenwen would have/should have understood these things. Other than diplomatic bluster, there wasn't much that she could do about the situation. Except maybe to try heavy-handed direct bribery to the official in charge. (We're sorry, Emperor. There was a paperwork snafu and the prisoner fell through the cracks.") Which may be very well what Elenwen was attempting -- and falling to accomplish because Tullius was 100% loyal to the Empire.
I have to ultimately agree. Elenwen showed up to apply some political pressure, but aside from that, I think she was powerless. At least overtly. Subversion was probably not beneath her though. Either way, I guess we will never know what her plan was since it wasn't actually needed.
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Hmm Let's see.
Boethia's Calling. Kill a follower? Dam I hate that one.
Well, it wouldn't be so bad if Delphine were a follower.
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At least you won't need to incorporate Hair physics into the mod.
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The AD has to be concerned about how much military strength the Empire can deploy to the AD/Empire border. Imperial forces tied up in an ongoing civil war in Skyrim are forces that can NOT be sent to the Western borders of the Empire. The vast majority of Nords would understandably be more concerned about the martial affairs in Skyrim, rather than Empire concerns outside of Skyrim. Traditionally, the Empire relied quite a bit on the fact that much/most of the Legion's strength was provided by Nords. If the Great War, Part II was to start, an active civil war in Skyrim would keep nearly all Nord forces in Skyrim. If the Stormcloaks win, even though Skyrim was independent, MANY Nords would still go enlist in the Legion, simply for the opportunity to kill Thalmor with impunity. ("This is for my cousin, Jens, who you bastards murdered!") If the Empire wins the civil war, then Skyrim would be reunited in its entirety, and the greatest number of Nord volunteers would be available to move to the Empire's western borders. So when determining the AD's preferences, a 1-2-3 ranking seems pretty obvious.
I don't seem to recall that the Thalmor had any intention to interfere in Ulfric's execution at Helgen. How could they? Ulfric had only just recently captured and then quickly transferred to Helgen. There wouldn't have been enough time for the news of Ulfric's capture to get to Elenwen (the senior Thalmor official in Skyrim) in Solitude, much less for her to organize any kind of intervention.
Load a new game and pay close attention as you enter the gates of Helgen. As you pass through, in the background behind Ralof, (When he mentions the elves having something to do with this) you will see Tullius on Horseback talking to Elenwen. She's There at Helgen.
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Absolutely correct, they can call him a sleeper agent, or someone that could become one, but that is just a fancy way of saying that it's a person that they can manipulate without actually being there. He's not an actual mole, though he's just as destructive. The best Thalmor Scenario is for this war to be a very long drawn out conflict, then when they are ready once again with fresh troops, they then simply have to sweep both Cyrodill and Skyim. The 2nd best outcome is that Ulfric actually wins, Cyrodill will be weakened, but they will still have to fight it with resistance. And the least palatable scenario is the Empire actually winning, holding on to them, because the Empire would be quite strong then and the Thalmor would have to prepare even more.
How do you know that the Thalmor prefer a stormcloak victory to an Imperial one. There is no evidence for this claim at all. I would argue that an Imperial victory is their second best, because they can still use their justicators to weaken Skyrim. If the Stormcloaks win they are going to kick the thalmor out, so the AD won't know what's coming, or when. Remember all the groups the U.S. supported the taliban because they were fighting against Sadam Hussien? Just because the AD thinks the Stormcloaks are the bigger threat doesn't mean they actually are.
That's not how Shouts work though. The language is synonymous with the idea. it doesn't change over time, because Fus IS Force, not just a word to describe it. It's like the Magic of True Names in many fantasy settings. No matter how many times it's told, no matter what culture it's represented in, the True Name is the same, and you either know it, or you don't.
I just finished the last Earthsea book, and I can't believe I never noticed how similiar the true names are to shouts until you pointed it out.
They don't prefer either side's victory. They want the Civil War to continue as it strengthen's their position since both the Empire and Stormcloaks continue to weaken each other.
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My 1st play-through, I was a Dark Elf. Took it for the Fire resist so I could be a Vampire assassin. This was before I had gotten DG even. Then I started paying a little more attention to Lore and trying to play adhering to that more so than previously. So Then I started rolling Nords almost exclusively. I went the whole 9 yards. No magic, joined the Stormcloaks. etc etc. But taking Whiterun actually bothered me. I was killing the very people I had recently fought with and was fully accepted as one of them. I also could find no fault with Balgruuf either. He was a good Jarl who's heart was in it for his city and his people. But fine, Skyrim's future needed Whiterun to change hands. But the part that really pissed me off and made me never again fight for the Stormcloaks, was Ulfric's arrogance in his conversation with Galmar following his victory speech in Solitude. It was in that moment, where they were joking about waiting for the Moot to be High King, his own words validated all of the Legion supporter's claims about Ulfric's personal motives (IMO) and made me question what I had just fought for, Who I had been killing and why. Now, I always join the Imperials. Not that I find them all that much better, TBH.
The one Civil War mod that was never made that I would absolutely lovewould be one where I can create a 3rd faction, rally the Jarls behind and squash both the Stormcloaks and Imperials. But I've read how other modders (Like Arthmoor) won't touch the Civil War due to how badly messed it is after Bethesda gutted it.
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. And knowledge literally handed down by word (Shout) of mouth can easily be distorted over numerous generations. [A copy of a copy of a copy..... of a copy kind of distortion.]
That's not how Shouts work though. The language is synonymous with the idea. it doesn't change over time, because Fus IS Force, not just a word to describe it. It's like the Magic of True Names in many fantasy settings. No matter how many times it's told, no matter what culture it's represented in, the True Name is the same, and you either know it, or you don't.
The Way of the Voice isn't something that can be distorted over time, because it is intrinsically linked to how the Thu'um functions, and how it is taught. Individuals don't have to obey it, but it's ideas and perspectives cannot be distorted, any more than Fus can be changed over a thousand generations of Tongues.
The problem lies in the fact that the only ones who can teach the Thu'um, the Greybeards, are adherents of the Way of the Voice. They are incapable of misinterpreting Jurgan's intent or philosophy, even if they are capable of ignoring it should they choose. So, to spread the Thu'um to a new generation, you'd need at least one Greybeard to forsake the Way of the Voice. Considering not even the Dragonborn could get any but their weakest to speak to him... that's highly unlikely.
Which brings us back around to the fact that... The Nords have nothing. Their two greatest assets in the founding of their First Empire (not to be confused with the Alessian Empire) were their Mages and their Tongues. And they ended up LOSING to numerous foes (the Dwemer, Ayleids, Drenni & Bretons, Dunmer) even with those advantages. Now they have neither.
"What twisted words have you created?"
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I disagree with the embedded philosophy of the Way of the Voice. Go to High Hrothgar and attack the Graybeards. Then sheathe your weapon. They don't relent. You die. They still kill you. They are a bunch of hypocrites anyway. Whatever doesn't impact their little cult is fine. Alduin returns and it's "Maybe the world is supposed to end" But threaten Parthurnaxx and see what happens. Why not..... "Maybe all the dragons are supposed to die"?
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(for the record, it actually seems like Tiber Septim couldn't shout either, despite being Dragonborn, implying that he never killed a Dragon in his lifetime). It's not something you can just pick up on your own, it's something that needs to be taught, so its not going to be something the Nords will have at their disposal.
I'll interject in here. Dragon's didn't exist in Tiber Septim's time. The rest of them were all killed in the Akaviri invasion against Reman and Co (Battle of Pale Pass). Also I remember reading somewhere that something happened to Tiber's voice that rendered him unable of speech, or at the very least anywhere near a Thu'um. I really need to find that lore book... though, but I remember reading that.
Ya it does need to be taught, though and it can be pretty hard unless you are Dragonborn. Or meditate like Jurgen. Thu'um was never a mainstay of the Nords, though, they are a very special force, only to supplement, not as something that...should be counted on. Also I don't remember any other country expand into an empire like Skyrim-Cyrodill. Only notable exception were the Akaviri, and Aylieds, and to a much lesser extent the Altmer. Oh, and I suppose the Dwemer too, in a way. But both Aylied and Dwemer are extinct.
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You could probably turn her into a common Vampire by becoming one yourself and turning her. I think AFT can do that. But I am not aware of any way for her to be a Pure Blood again. Although, I would look at her in CK and see if there is something that can be easily edited. Although, from what I've heard about Serana, nothing is easily edited.
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OK, so, what do others choose? What's everyone else's preference? (And why?) Here's a HUGE factor in my decision to stay with the DG. Tempered Enhanced Dwarven Crossbow + Elemental Fury
(If you haven't tried this........well, try it.). I know I can get the X-Bow and let Serana make me a VL. But there are other factors too.I can understand being a Vampire Lord that it changes things up a bit and adds some new mechanics you your game, to give you different ways to play but, like the werewolf, It's ultimately too limiting and frankly less powerful. Unless I'm doing it wrong, that is. I've used BV, but even then, as I moved up in to the 30s for levels, all I did there was use the mod negate the weaknesses and never use the VL form much after. OK, well, I did set the hunters to the max number and used them for my scheduled feeding times. LOL. BV, gives some pretty OP passives if you set it. But I still loved to sneak around and snipe with the X-Bow. Although, there was something to be said for sneak feeding instead of backstabbing.
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Going back to the original question...
I approach the decision on whether to join the Stormcloaks or Empire in a totally practical way. The Empire is known, it's in the mind's eye of people, regardless of how far it's fallen, It has clout and influence still. The Stormcloaks on the other hand are an unknown, even should they succeed in the in the civil war, who will ally with them? Certainly not the Bretons, they are still part of the Empire, if I'm not mistaken. Not the orcs, and anyone who has elven ears for that matter. Ulfric is not as dumb as to slap the hand that may help him, even if that person is say...a Dunmer, his followers however...well, let's say that they'll never let him hear the end of it. No, he is pretty much alone afterwards or in a tenuous alliance. I honestly don't know how he is going to deal with the Thalmor that are outside Skyrim, after Skyrim is depleted of manpower and other resources.
The Thalmor were always the ultimate enemy, and I always get the sense that the Stormcloak are fighting the Empire more than they are fighting the Thalmor, regardless how much they hate the "pointy-eared elfs". Once this rebellion is done, then we can continue to gear up for war, because I'm very confident that while the Empire is kissing the Thalmor off, they are planning on a way to fight them all the while. It would be very foolish not to do so, rebellion or not. The peace will not last and the next war will decide the fate of the Empire, nevermind Talos. So I'm pretty sure it's a big deal to anyone who stands to lose. Heh, you can say that it was in very good luck for the Thalmor that the Markarth incident happened at all.
Having said this, it doesn't stop me from roleplaying my alt Stormcloak.
The Thalmor love the idea of Civil War in Skyrim. It's a Win - Win for them. I really think Bethesda tried to do a good job creating a situation where no matter who you choose, there are negatives to weigh out. As I said earlier, Bethesda just never really did a good job in justifying Ulfric's cause to attack Whiterun.
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The Dawnguard and Miraak. Chronologically, the expansions take place in order. Even though you can do things however you want, the March of History will almost definately (it has the last 2 times at least) record Alduin, Harmon and Miraak happening sequentially. Which makes Miraak the last chapter for the Dragonborn's story, and the most likely thing Tsun was referencing.
I don't know, I don't think defeating Miraak and Harkon count as a destiny. Defeathing them are tasks. Establishing or rebuilding an empire is a destiny.
But I do have to admit, whatever that destiny is, will not ever be known. And that the LDB won't have anything else recorded in History after the events in Skyrim.
Did you kill Arron? if so how?
in Skyrim LE
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He will follow Mjoll where ever you take her. Drives me nuts when he just appears in Breezehome. But there have been times where I've come across him travelling back to Riften. If you follow him from a distance, he'll never make it past the 1st group of wolves.. LOL