WizardOfAtlantis
-
Posts
443 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Posts posted by WizardOfAtlantis
-
-
the ideas they had don't translate well, they were pre-monotheistic. Christianity, Islam etc were a deep shift in thinking about this stuff.
Why do you think they don't translate well?
Actually, they were pagan, not pre-monotheistic, as monotheism began in the western world in ancient Egypt thus sowing the seeds for Christianity well over a thousand years later. Continuing on that line, then, Christianity et al. really aren't deep shifts in and of themselves because they were continuing the religious trends set in the worship of the sun god in ancient Egypt 5,000 years ago. A very clear example of this is the ritualistic use of Amen at the end of prayers, which is identical to Amun, Amon, as well as the fact that the ten commandments are preceded by chapter 125 of the Book of the Dead (and thousands of years).
My point was that it is a little arrogant to call their religion (the Romans') a superstition simply because it comes chronologically before what people living in this age like to term "religion", which is just a fallacy based on looking at time in a linear, Darwinian sense in that whatever comes later is better, thus resulting in the denial of that category (and its "prestige") to other equally valid things, in this case, faiths. :)
-
I have a top hat in the game...that's not already part of vanilla? :confused:
I think it's called the Tuxedo Hat.
-
3. The metro system and DC ruins just sucked in that regard. If it weren't for fast travel I'd never return to any of those locations and I still never figured out how to get to some of them. I got lost every time I tried to get to GNR and after a few playthroughs I just decided to forget about Three-Dog and went straight to Rivet City, at least it's easy to get to The Mall from there as the metro line runs from Rivet City to The Mall uninterrupted.
Ha! Totally. After those first few times of finding him, I totally sidetracked him, too. Just not necessary, and very easy to leapfrog instead. :tongue:
-
I suppose it really boils down to a matter of preference. For me, it is rather psychological. The subways and Skyscrapers made me feel claustrophobic, whereas rolling hills and open sky of the Southwest made me a bit more relaxed, even if they were a bit redundant.
I couldn't agree with you more! :thumbsup:
One thing however I did not like was the 50's style world setting. As if the entire world stopped and stood in one place never to advance for the exception of military hardware.
That's a difficult one, isn't it? A fine line to walk in terms of original development, I mean. Takes a lot more creativity to go somewhere no one's gone before and do it believably enough so that you don't lose gamers along the way and they start to wonder, "Just where the hell am I, anyway? Wasn't this supposed to be a post-apocalyptic US?"
I think they kind of went the safe route. Throw in Atomic Age Glitter mixed with Mad Max. It works on its levels.
Personally, I would have loved to see more of a Gamma World-type game. In Gamma World (old school GW, by the way), you have a much greater divide between the technological level of the people and the tech you find in ruins. Tech is much more rare, and mutations run wild as more time has passed. That, I think, is the truly glorious combination. Much more of an Age-gone-by, like walking through an ancient Roman temple, than visiting an Civil War battleground.
-
A lot of that was to do with their religion (we'd say superstition)
I wouldn't say superstition. :biggrin:
-
It goes quite a way further than that. I'm trying to get a definitive map together that shows;
(1) the game-space. (within vanilla invisible walls)
(2) the pip-boy map space, and
(3) the terrain map space
And impose all three boundaries on an actual topographic map of the region. I think this would be a useful modders resource as far as creating new lands and overlapping mods. Also for modders to include some of the wonderful sounding 'real world' locations such as Calico ghost town and Zzyzx Road. It would also help the Area 51 thing (which is way, Way! north of Nellis)
Its proving tricky to do because the Fallout devs have squeezed and distorted the map/terrain to no particular system.
Cool idea! :thumbsup: I would love to see the relationship between the three.
-
Very interesting, all. I have to say I'm surprised by the poll so far. I expected more yes's than no's, but I guess that shows what I know! :wallbash: It goes to show once again that you can't know the perception until it's perceived!
On a more specific note, I haven't noticed much difference between Three Dog and Mr. New Vegas. For me, it seems that both took a while to come up to date with what I've been doing in the Wasteland, and then they got around to sharing the news. Regardless, I think *realistically* both of those guys tape some of their news segments and then play them in a slightly-changing loop. :thumbsup:
On a larger note, my feelings towards the games are tending towards understanding FO3 as grander and harsher, while I find New Vegas to just be more fun. It may be a simplistic reduction, but I think I've had more actual Fun playing New Vegas, and this has led me to understand the harshness of the Capitol Wasteland a little better.
-
Interesting to note that the Roman emperors went out of their way to choose worse successors, so that their own reign would be remembered as good in comparison.
Just imagine what kind of Forever you have to assume in what you're doing in order to adopt such a mentality...the possibility that the Empire might fall doesn't even come into question. What century-spanning Ego. Reminds me of Melnibone'. :nuke:
-
The recognition for "landmark" buildings and architecture in the DC is also very slim if you haven't been in contact with information focused on the city before, something in which I'm apparently not the only one and which certainly isn't due to informative bias on my own part.
So you don't you watch movies and international news? Seems like every other shot on Fox is of the capitol building! LOL That's all it takes to recognize the DC landmarks (and the Hollywood sign, for that matter). You still recognized them, though, having never been there (I assume). I only recognized 3 of them, and I lived in the country. The power of TV! :woot:
I think New York would be a good setting, however with the alternate timeline, they would have to place the towers, and have them in disrepair/partialy collapsed. So that may very well be a reason why they have not chosen that particular area. Though I think it would be great to have to fight your way up tower 2 which is half way up ripped open and leaning on tower 1 so that you can crawl/climb your way into it and up the top. Not so much because of 9/11 but rather because it would make for a hell of a final battle site for a fallout game.
You're totally right. Not gonna happen. They could leave the towers out...when were they built, anyway? It's too emotionally sensitive for people. I personally don't think it should necessarily stop them, but I think it would.
That's the same reason (Political Correctness) why I doubt you'll see the next game in China or the Middle East. Don't get me wrong when I type this, but I don't know how OK it is to shoot live, unghoulified Muslims or Chinese in a game in people's minds, you know what I mean? FO now is very in-your-face so you will see very well what you are doing.
I don't play FPS games too much at all any more...are there games where you go around shooting Muslims? For example, in the modern age/generation, you don't see a lot of Japanese getting shot in movies about WWII, even considering all that they did because now they're the "good guys". If it's done, like in the Pacific, there's an awful lot of drama involved that would never be wasted on a Nazi. :down:
-
I've noticed in myself these last few days the desire to revisit the Capitol Wasteland. I haven't yet, because I simply can't stop playing New Vegas. I really like the setting, the arms and armors you can find, the backdrop, everything.
However, I've felt a little nostalgia recently, and have been thinking of taking a trip back into a...well, I can't say UNmodified Capitol Wasteland, but I am thinking about a severely-limited-in-terms-of-mods DC (something like Arwen's or FWE, some hairs and that's about it), so I can get the flavor of the vanilla game.
I have a greater appreciation for that certain alchemy that Bethesda created with FO3 than I did before playing New Vegas, that's for sure. The gamescape itself is far more grand, with tons more to explore, and seems overall much more Epic now, with all of its moving parts, if you get my drift. Sure, it has its holes, but it seems a much finer-faceted diamond than it did before...before having any real comparison, of course.
What are your thoughts? Having new views, or refreshed views, on the Capitol Wasteland?
-
I still maintain that all you need are a couple of recognisable elements. Paris for instance has the eiffel tower, louvre, champs de elysee, notre dame, and that'd be enough for major items.
That's what I think, too. All it has to be is a few things, but things that would stick out in a large portion of people's minds all over the world. I have my doubts that the Champs-Élysées or the Louvre would work as images. As recognizable names, yes, but iconic images...I dunno. Notre Dame is pretty impressive, too, but big gothic cathedrals abound in Europe. Sure, it's a fantastic one, but it is still one in a group of others, even if it's the top of the category.
And I love the domestic architecture in Europe, don't get me wrong. My point was that it has to be easily definable from city to city in order to establish, visually, that city. There are similar if not identical styles at times in Europe if, let's say, two cities in question have major architectural features that were built commonly in the 1700's, for example. Block after block of similarly-constructed, oh what would be the world, not palaces but, like, apartment/condo buildings. I didn't mean that it was uninteresting, but that there could be similarities for what was "popular at the time", and that was only to emphasize again the need for a few easily recognizable landmarks.
-
What I mean with "SIMPLE point of view", was that its "ONLY your point of view" about that matter.
Just what is everyone else writing about here, anyway, in your opinion? You seem to be taking this personally and think I'm obliquely attacking your point of view so therefore you have to point out that it's only my point of view in a rather defensive manner. So? That's only your point of view, too. It's only everybody's point of view. It's always (and only) everybody's point of view. Can't really get around that one... :wallbash:
in the discussion of should, could, would, and maybe will, I only added some criteria into consideration that go beyond personal preference, lifestyle, travel experience, where one lives, etc. I haven't even said yet where I would like to see the next game, only where I thought the designers will take it based on considerations of this, that, and the other thing.
You know, there's a reason why in Planet of the Apes, Charlto Heston finds what he does at the end of the movie. :nuke:
-
@WizardofAtlantis
Not sure I can agree with you on that one. FO3 had a bunch of readily recognizable stuff, but not New Vegas. And even then, when I visited DC, I was more like "Hey, I saw that in FO3!" than the other way around. In all honesty, all it really has is the Hoover Dam....and something that is Vegas Strip-like. I'm sure London, Beijing, Paris, or Rome would be more recognizable for me.
I don't think the architecture needs to be immediately recognizable save for a few landmarks. The semi-famous stuff becomes something for the player to discover.
Yes, that's exactly it! Vegas does fall by the wayside and has less to offer because of its non-licenseable architecture. Your comment about DC, though, misses what I was trying to say. It's not based on where you have been, as that obviously raises the emotional charge of the geography for you, but just on what you've seen. Your example, that it was nice visiting after the game, is exactly this but in reverse.
Most everyone wants to see it where they live, where they like, or where they have visited, and that's a complicated matter if you want to have psychological impact for millions of people with different lives, habits, etc. The only one place they have in common is Hollywoodland/Televisionland.
See, you already recognized some of the big landmarks of DC even never having been there first. That's the power of the media, movie and news coverage mostly, for the last fifty years. It makes these things recognizable for people who haven't been there. Vegas is less recognizable, and in fact, I think it's a minor setting. Still, I think they're on their way West to one of the most recognizable places to call home...Hollywood(land).
-
@kukenike, I think you are assuming I am in the US, and that's why I say these things. I'm not. It's not. I live in Europe, and of course this subject deals with where you are and it's subjective. What doesn't and what isn't? I have already said that. Actually, a lot of what you're saying goes along with what I'm saying. Of course, the big point is that it's not subjective. It's objective.
The real point is that nothing can go along with where you live. These things have to be recognizable to more than the people that have been to the place, like I already said. Paris isn't recognizable for the world audience as much as you would like to think. Most of its buildings are similar to many in Europe, and its iconographic architecture is limited. What do you want to add to the Eiffel Tower? L'Arc de Triomphe? That's visually Roman.
What defines how the world perceives the world, what the world sees commonly and as a whole, is what they see on television and in movies and on the internet. And no backdrop receives as much coverage as the US, that's why even people on the other side of the planet might recognize points of DC. Vegas a lot less, and in fact, it's not as good of a backdrop, though the dam gives a lot. Still...
And kukenike, don't try to insult me or what I'm saying as SIMPLE, as in stupid, and nothing more. It's not, and I'm certainly not, so I wouldn't go there if I were you. What I'm trying to get across is not complicated, though, and should be relatively easy to understand if you can take personal bias out of the way.
Post-Apocalyptia is the fall of man. Not the downfall of forests, or whatever, but the ruin of what man built. What we built is most easily seen in architecture because it's the most in-your-face aspect of our lives because it's all around us. It's what is left of ancient civilizations today. It's what was, is, and will be of the human endeavor in its most easily understandable form (aside from speech, math, and all the more ephemeral arts but thtat's another subject).
That's why a ruined building has psychological impact, and the more recognizable/emotionally-tied-in the building, the more impact.
-
Of course I am serious, and that is exactly what I'm saying. :turned: You can't make the game "in Europe". It has to be a specific city (and only one) with a small region around it. It also has to be a city that has MULTIPLE world-recognized and Easily-recognized-for-the-masses architectural features to manipulate into post-apocalyptia and still be recognizable at a glance.
Hardly anybody in the world is going to recognize the Pompidou or the Bastille or anything else in Paris aside from the Eiffel Tower. This is fairly obvious if you think about it. The same goes for London. Average audiences will (might) recognize (maybe) Big Ben, Tower Bridge, and little else, and that's not enough. Nobody anywhere is going to recognize Barcelona, Chicago, Milan, anywhere in Germany, Wales, Scotland, Ireland, Eastern Europe, China, South America, Canada, Australia, New Zealand or Japan UNLESS THEY ARE TOLD BEFOREHAND WHAT THEY ARE LOOKING AT, you have been there, or you live there. And that is simply insufficient.
Wilderness and Wasteland are eternal. Post-Apocalyptia is defined by the Fall of Civilization...and what we as gamers can see of it in-game.
-
One thing I think that is missing from a lot of people's choices is one of (if not The) the most important factors to take into consideration for the next locale, and that is Iconographic Imagery, specifically in this case, architecture. And more importantly, buildings that everybody in the world can recognize at a glance. The DC Wasteland had that. Vegas with its lights does too.
Most of Europe does not. South America does not either, nor does China apart from the Great Wall. Rome would work, with the Coloseum and St. Peter's (something I think about very often, as I live here and routinely imagine Super Mutants charging out from the columns of St. Peter's square, which would easily work, too, model-wise as the Capitol building is based off St. Peter's, etc etc, but that's better for someone's mod, and the catacomb system under the city, etc. Paris has only the Eiffel tower, etc. Chicago doesn't have much world-class architecture, and neither does Miami or even New Orleans. That's DLC-level stuff.
Australia is cool, too, but let's face it. Most of it already counts as a Wasteland. :tongue:
Pretty landscapes aren't sufficient. There are pretty landscapes Everywhere in the world, and not much would be iconic after a nuclear war. That is why it has to be architecture, because it's architecture...specifically Fallen Architecture...that gives one's senses just what is Post-Apocalyptic.
No, they probably will remain in the US, and as I see it, they have two choices, following the above characteristics.
One is New York. Statue of Liberty reigning supreme over the Escape from New York-style landscape.
The other is Los Angeles, with the Hollywood sign looming tall over a chinese-ghoul (or chinese patriot) infested Chinese Theater, some great dungeoning to do in some parallel-universe's Star's homes, and of course we can't forget just what Fallout might be like using the great movie studios' lots as a backdrop...Universal Studios, some psuedo-Disney Land, etc, etc.
Personally, I think they should continue to go West. DC, Vegas, LA. It also brings the story "home". :thumbsup:
-
Thanks, WastelandAssassin.
I was kinda hoping that. Your analysis for the rest pans out already. I don't care about Legion quests (just don't like playing a bad guy too much), and I actually have heard in conversation the fact that "maybe since Caesar's dead, things will be a little calmer now" or something to that effect.
So, cool. :thumbsup:
-
double post
-
So, in my wandering-the-wastes-looking-for-dog-brains, I was led to a Legion encampment, I thought just one of many, until one thing led to another and Caesar stepped on a landmine and got shot in the head for his troubles in trying to kill me. Him and all the other blokes with him. o_O
Will this have any repercussions on the game, main quest or anything?
I have the platinum chip now, so Ring a Ding Ding is finished (that one I caught as it flashed on the screen). But others? Does Caesar actually take part in the last battle of the main quest? I haven't done it a single time yet as I tend to wander around a lot.
Thanks.
-
Blank areas aren't even far away. All you have to do is go over the hills right behind Doc Mitchell's house. It's a stone's throw from Goodsprings... :down:
-
If you were to take the original games and "upgrade" them in 3D that alone would make them feel like less than they were for most people.
That's a good point, and one I've thought about myself quite a bit. It's a very literal example of how you "envision" a game and its sequels.
-
Yeah, they did a good job to take some cues from the modding community. They could have taken more but I guess that's a bit difficult, what with the game having to appeal to console and pc markets. It's a strange new direction...hopefully smart companies will listen to what mods people like and continue their development that way, obviously at the same time adding their own ideas...they're supposed to be the professionals, after all, even if at times it might not seem so (such as FO3's plot). I love NV! :thumbsup:
-
you'd think they would stick little things like where in the Abyss to put the blinkin' files in the included Readme. :wallbash:
Thanks for the heads-up, Quetzlsacatanango. :yes:
-
Wow, look at all the votes! You guys are awesome! Kudos to anyone who can tell me the significance behind the fourth option in the poll... assuming I haven't already given you a kudos for something else.
All I can think of is that "The King" had a taste for them, but I'm guessing that the significance should be a bit more significant!
That is correct! Elvis loved peanut butter banana sandwiches. And drugs. And booze. And cheesecake. And...
...and look how (and where) he died, I think is how we finish that phrase. Good sandwiches, though.
Back to task. I don't understand the lure of cheating. What's the point in playing, then? I'm in it for the Roleplaying, and aside from mods that give me reasonably realistic items (backpacks, a different but balanced gun or six, more cooking recipes, etc), I can't condone it while playing. To each his own, but it just baffles me. Too much instanttitty (hope that's all right to write) :ermm:
How old are you?
in Off-Topic
Posted
You would think, with so many youngsters having the greatest Oracle on Earth at their fingertips (and her name be Google), you would find more maturity online. But of course, you don't. :wallbash:
There's a funny thing about getting older. Older is always older than you are, and younger is always younger than you are.