Zoney

Well, I haven't had much feedback yet, but I thought I'd give an update on my research/testing so far. I've discovered that even to rename the one word topics, I need to create my own custom topics duplicating the original infos (could move them, but that is more "unclean"). This is because the one word topics are reused at different parts of the main quest and in different contexts (e.g. "Jauffre" is a topic to ask Baurus more about who Jauffre is, but at Weynon Priory is used to ask *where* Jauffre is). I want to keep the game fully voiced. Unfortunately as no doubt many of you know already, the file location for voice files is tied to specific locations dependent on the info ID and the mod name. So copies of original infos won't use the original voice files automatically and the only work-around is to place a *duplicate* at the mod-specific location. Although this didn't stop me attempting two unconventional ways to try and get existing topics said without their text being seen (using SayTo and StartConversation in results script). Both approaches had drawbacks. I've decided not to worry about having to include copies of the original voice files in order for the mod to be fully voiced. Instead, in the absence of a command-line utility to extract specific files from BSA archive (rather than all), I'll distribute my own archive with a single copy of each file I need. I will include a batch script in the distribution that will call BSA commander at the command line to extract my archive to a temporary directory, then the script will create the necessary duplications* of voice files using xcopy, and finally will call BSA commander again to pack the more numerous files into a new archive. This should minimise the download size for voice files used. An alternative would be not to distribute any voice files and insist the downloader has over 4GB space free - then my script would unpack the original BSAs to a temp folder, delete all files not reused by my mod, move/rename/duplicate files used by my mod, and pack them into a mod BSA. On the plus side, going this route allows full versatility on new topic text, new topics and even new responses (old voice lines reused/combined in new context). I now envisage a system whereby the NPC delivers the original info but via more customised topics (player dismissive, scared, angry, etc.) and the NPC response would also be modified by using quotes from elsewhere out of context. I don't see myself modifying existing quests wildly just yet, but I want player choices to have some effect. So I am thinking of doing the following - certain responses affect NPC disposition (make this not surprising - if you choose the nasty option, NPC disp. drops, nice option NPC disp ups) - this may make the silly speechcraft tool less necessary. Would have to affect player speechcraft skill too. Also, based on past choices, the specific wording of future choices would automatically be based on character's rudeness, inquisitiveness, nervousness, etc. (i.e. very similar topics with this as the condition). Of course perhaps even if the above script options are used, the quantity of duplicated voice files might make this approach prohibitive in terms of bloating disk space used for Oblivion? Maybe this isn't too much of an issue for fans and today in 2010? (I'm guessing that just doing the main quest like this would be maybe 3x original voice space used - so probably still a fraction of the overall voice space for the game - we're talking at most a GB or two, or for a more extensive mod of the entire game, probably still low single figure GBs). I plan to continue a test version of the initial charactergen quest. NPC "attitude" will be stored in variables in a custom quest (plan not to include script in this - just use topic result scripts). Again, attitude will be automatically decided by actual player choices, and won't remove future choices but instead will modify how they are delivered (using near-identical topics with conditions on them). Feedback would be appreciated!

Hello again! Today's approach that I would be interested in examining the feasibility of is this: Does a command line tool, or scripting capabilities for windowed application, exist to automate the extraction of specific files (in a list) from a BSA archive? This would be in order to provide new dialogue options but re-use the existing voice files, *and* avoid distributing them again with new filenames (any new infos for a mod have their voice files set to be from a folder of the mod's name). With the script or batch file for command line as described, one could one by one extract the relevant file for mod dialogue and copy it to the corresponding filename/location needed for the mod. No distribution of large quantities of voice files needed for fully voiced dialogue mod. Am I onto another flawed idea? TES4BSA and BSA commander seem to only offer complete BSA extraction for command line. I can't see that OBMM's scripts extend quite to what I'm looking for either. EDIT: Of course I could do the mad scientist approach, tell prospective mod downloaders to please ensure they have four Gigabytes of free space, then have my mod batch script call BSA extractor to extract the entire Voice BSAs to a temp folder, do the copy/renaming I need on the list of files I have, then delete the rest. I guess I would have to tell mod downloaders that installation might take some time... and to defrag hard drive after too... :-) Not exactly an ideal approach!

David, sorry if I was unclear, but thanks for responding! I'm not looking to change the info text, just the topic text (but as I said, a single more elaborate topic text will not fit all the scenarios for which that topic is used - hence a need for multiple topics replacing a single one). It would be trivial to monkey around with the dialogue if I could simply use my own topics (or duplicate the existings ones) and duplicate the existing infos. But the voice file location is *fixed* for a given info so I can't specify for duplicated infos to use the existing files in their existing location. To have voice for duplicated infos, I would have to actually copy the original voice file (out of the BSA archive) and rename it and place it in the location that is predetermined for my duplicate infos. So to get around this, I'm looking for some way to present existing topics with different dialogue text (player menu choices) at different times. The two work-arounds I've mentioned do this by having multiple "fake" topics (used at different points in the game via conditions) to lead into the single original one - but as I've pointed out, this doesn't entirely work.

I have been monkeying around with dialogue and scripts and if anyone has helpful suggestions as to how to implement something I'm trying to do, I'd like to hear them! Problem: Essentially I want instead of the player having single word topics in the dialogue menu, to always have a line of dialogue. The problem is that changing the one word topic text to a fixed dialogue line doesn't work - these topics are used at various points in the game in different contexts. I don't want to replicate the original topics either (i.e. split topic for each context), as then I have to either have no voice dialogue, or else put copies of the original sound files under new filenames. Can I somehow get around this? Altering topic text dynamically in the game would be nice but this doesn't seem possible? Attempted solutions: What I have managed to do, is replace the reference (in e.g. Greeting) to the original topic with a ref to a new topic that has a blank info (no text - just a space) and in the result script, have a "SayTo player OriginalTopic". The NPC will voice the original topic, but the problem is that the topic menu cuts in too, so no subtitles and only the first info is spoken. (Plus the blank info results in the NPC spacing out for a second when you select NewTopic in-game). Is there any function I could put in the result script that would "block" the dialogue menu from cutting in until NPC has finished talking? A timer based on the SayTo return value doesn't seem possible as Result Script is a run-once no begin/end or "persistent" quality to it (as I can see it - I am new to this). So another dirty workaround was to set NewTopic to be a "Goodbye" and in the result script have a "StartConversation player, OriginalTopic". Voilá, the NPC will properly voice the whole thing and the workaround allows one single original topic to be presented to the player as arbitrary text at various game points (using multiple NewTopics). PROS: Post-topic, player has the proper choice of topics again for after that topic. Another plus - any result script on the original topic will execute as intended. CONS: The goodbye/startconversation means a bizarre zoom out/zoom in on the NPC face prior to the "response" to NewTopic. Still have a space-out moment too (would a zero-length mp3 fix this?) I might still use this if nothing better presents itself, and simply rely on abstract "dialogue" ("Tell me about Topic...") to minimise situations where it is needed (e.g. topic Jauffre - even a "Tell me about Jauffre" wouldn't work as in Weynon Priory the topic is used to ask where he is). Summary: So I am hoping at least to improve on the workaround, but would appreciate any ideas from a completely different angle on how to implement this! This is linked obviously to my mod concept that I started a thread on, but I hope it is OK to have a separate thread on this specific technical issue.

I'm mucking around with dialogue/script options at the moment trying to figure out how to do some things that are probably not possible. However as regards your own problem, could you possibly avoid scripts and simply have the "calculation" as a condition on the NPCs info options for the topic? Can't you string a whole bunch of checks on variables together in this condition (linked with ands?) So NPC's greeting has a choice of a topic "ModnameBuySkooma" In ModnameBuySkooma topic you add two infos (Not buying Skooma, Yes buying Skooma). The latter yesbuy info obviously has a result script (take skooma, give gold). The nobuy info would only have a condition to make sure only this NPC says it. The yesbuy info would have a more complex condition of (this NPC) AND (disposition > x) AND (merchantile > x), etc, etc. Or have I not understood what you are trying to do? Maybe I am in error as to how dialogue works (I am new at this)?

Proof of concept: http://tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=31069 Some modified player topics for Baurus and Emperor in the start area. Perhaps gives an idea of my thoughts for an initial simple step to the mod? Next would be to do this for the rest of the dialog in the main quest, then the other main quest lines, then progress to the lesser dialogue. After that look at more complicated ideas like additional dialogue options and modified/extra NPC responses. Is it a worthwhile concept?

Thanks for the links. I am thinking more of modifying things on a very superficial level but in a way that makes dialogue more interesting. I think the example you give is not entirely what I have in mind as regards adding choices. I'm thinking more of adding one or two options to PC that are in fact the same comment but phrased a bit differently or at least evoking ultimately the same NPC line of dialogue, but perhaps meriting a retort first if PC is rude or funny (can use the dialogue lines from the minigame for this for example). Also I am thinking of the PC conversation topics. For example I am looking here at dialogue for PC with Baurus. Real PC dialogue is mixed with "topic names" - for example real dialogue options like, "I must take it to Jauffre" "There is another heir" follow "topics" in the same dialogue menu format: "The Blades" "Amulet of Kings" I'd prefer to modify the latter to be: "Who are the Blades?" "What is this Amulet of Kings?" As well as even just amend PC lines to not just solely be functional. "I must take it to Jauffre" tells Baurus what he needs to know, but it's very basic. Even just "The Emporer told me to take the Amulet to someone called Jauffre" would surely be an improvement? EDIT: OK, I forgot there is a character limit on this... still, you could have <He said to take it to "Jauffre"> rather than make the PC certain of his actions and aware of who Jauffre is.

I realise that posting a mod idea as a first post is perhaps a tad predictable, but I have an idea I can't get out of my head and would be interested in feedback before proceeding. My idea is to seemingly improve the dialogue / dialog options in Oblivion even if the underlying quests etc. are unaltered. I.e. we could call this "faking" smart dialogue. Basis for the idea and assumptions: * PC dialog is just text, so even just changing existing text could improve immersion (some of those "one word" questions and such - give the player a personality even if the same for everyone). * PC could have multiple dialogue options even if the NPC response is the same for all (don't you feel like making a "smartalec" response sometimes?) * NPC dialog relies on very few voice actors. Existing NPC responses could be augmented in places to reflect PC "attitude" responses by simply sticking one of the generic "retorts" in before the NPC continues with their normal response. * Even if you consider NPC dialogue lines as a fixed limited set, they can surely be combined with all kinds of PC text? I.e. a pre-determined line could arise from all kinds of PC lines. Questions: * Is there a complete log of all pre-recorded dialogue? (One would need a printed list to properly plan new PC responses or stick in "extra" out of place NPC lines) * How complicated is it to modify PC text and would it be a very "pervasive" mod that would affect so much in Oblivion as to make combination with other mods difficult? Initial steps: 1) Pick a self-contained trial area like the initial tutorial (maybe a poor choice due to Emporer's limited dialogue?) 2) Amend the PC text to be more "interesting". 3) Add multiple PC responses (same NPC response though). 4) Adjust NPC response for some of the "attitude" PC dialog (use the general retorts to show displeasure/pleasure at PC line of questioning/response) - adding in just one extra NPC line before NPC continues with ordinary response. Further steps: 1) Expand to other quest lines/towns/NPCs/etc. 2) Have some PC lines affect NPC disposition? 3) Allow PC to respond to NPC "Rumour" dialogue option with a predetermined response like the AI uses (yes, allow the PC to have one of those inane pretend non-conversations). 4) Consider modifying quests to at least "pretend" branch/join? Or simply end (e.g. really outrageous PC line just gets certain NPCs to attack you ending the quest) Anyway - in general it seems like there would be scope to make Oblivion dialogue a lot more entertaining and interesting even if you were not actually making the player conversation have real effects (breaking quests etc.) What do people think of this idea? A specific question would be if there is somewhere I could see the text version of all the NPC dialogue, linked to the sound file ID? Presumably the subtitles could be used? It would be handiest to browse by voice actor/race though. Another "further step" question - can you get Oblivion to play back part of a sound file? i.e. so you could play back sentences or even words out of conjoined NPC dialogue lines? Finally, I apologise in advance for any green aspects of my post/idea! I have used a lot of mods and searched through and not found something like this and I did a search for "dialogue" on the forums here without seeing a relevant discussion. My previous mod experience is limited to texture recolouring!